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mklotz
01-19-2016, 05:38 PM
I have a toilet tank with a hairline crack in the front that weeps just a tiny bit. What is the best commercially available product to seal it?

Jon Heron
01-19-2016, 05:45 PM
I would go with epoxy from the inside.
3M underwater marine sealant will also work.
Good luck!
Jon

A.K. Boomer
01-19-2016, 06:12 PM
two different approaches --- is it a migrating crack? or one that has been totally stable for years?
if stable I would just use a high quality automotive silicone on the inside after totally drying it out ...
if migrating you might want to try and help it stabilize with a high strength epoxy...

Sometime heating and cooling cycles can play hell with a top tank --- imagine the tanks all stabilized at room temp overnight and then that first flush in the morning dragging in 40 degree water and filling up the bottom half of the tank while the top part wants to remain the same temp,,, big changes going on im sure in the form of stress...

boslab
01-19-2016, 06:23 PM
Fish tank translucent sealant
Mark

martik
01-19-2016, 06:46 PM
Drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop it from spreading

Mcgyver
01-19-2016, 06:54 PM
leaky cracked toilet? some things aren't worth fixing ......new ones from 100-200

http://www.homedepot.com/s/toilet?NCNI-5

Seastar
01-19-2016, 06:56 PM
Drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop it from spreading

That is a good idea in some materials (like Plexiglass) but a really bad idea in ceramic.
Ceramic does not react like other materials to cracks.
I would replace the tank or the whole toilet.
They are not expensive.
Bill

A.K. Boomer
01-19-2016, 06:57 PM
leaky cracked toilet? some things aren't worth fixing ......new ones from 100-200

http://www.homedepot.com/s/toilet?NCNI-5

hmmm lets see 25 cents worth of silicone VS $150.00 and your point is???

danlb
01-19-2016, 07:25 PM
I have a toilet tank with a hairline crack in the front that weeps just a tiny bit. What is the best commercially available product to seal it?

I see that you are in California.

If the existing toilet is 4 gallons or more (or older that 30 years), you can pick up a new "High pressure, low flow" toilet that really works well for under $200 AND get a $100 rebate from a state program AND (if you are lucky) get another $100 rebate from the local water company. That's what we did.

I actually like my new dual flush mode toilet (a Kholer model) better than my 1974 model. :) It's a better height, it flushes quite well and saves water (important in California homes) as well.

Dan

danlb
01-19-2016, 07:34 PM
hmmm lets see 25 cents worth of silicone VS $150.00 and your point is???

If he's like me... it's 25 cents of silicone and a all day to let it dry out since the ceramic is wet. Then a week later it's hours scraping off the silicone so that you can try epoxy to see if that works. Then you add epoxy to the outside, since the inside is not glazed. Then the wife declares it ugly so off to the store for a new tank. :)

BTW, you can buy just the tank too, as little as $30 at home depot.

Dan

mklotz
01-19-2016, 08:16 PM
If he's like me... it's 25 cents of silicone and a all day to let it dry out since the ceramic is wet. Then a week later it's hours scraping off the silicone so that you can try epoxy to see if that works. Then you add epoxy to the outside, since the inside is not glazed. Then the wife declares it ugly so off to the store for a new tank. :)

BTW, you can buy just the tank too, as little as $30 at home depot.

Dan

I think you must know me; that's a perfect description of what my imagination was showing on my neural viewing screen.

Actually, it was a toilet that made me give up DIY plumbing. I applied a smidgen too much pressure while trying to loosen 10 years of corrosion on the actuator handle assembly. A 10 pound dagger of ceramic tore from the tank and missed impaling my foot by an inch followed immediately, of course, by all the water in the tank flooding the bathroom and an adjacent hall.

Thanks for reminding me. I think I'll call the plumber and have them install a new tank.

Thanks also to everyone who offered advice. I'm sorry I wasted your time.

Dave C
01-19-2016, 08:22 PM
I bought a new toilet from Sams Club last week for $98. It's a dual flush model with a slow dropping seat and lid. I love it.

Doozer
01-19-2016, 08:29 PM
Drain the tank.
Dry out the crack by putting an incandescent light bulb
(the ones that get hot) on the area for a few hours.
Use cyanoacrylate glue on the inside of the tank to wick
into the crack. Not the gel kind. The liquid kind.
Done. Next problem.

--Doozer

Paul Alciatore
01-19-2016, 08:55 PM
Ceramic tanks can be fixed. I had one that was cracked around the flush handle: two or three pieces came off. I used super glue and it lasted 20+ years with never a problem. Of course, that was above the water line, but I don't see any reason why any one of several of the above suggestions would not work. Except that one about drilling a hole: forget that one or you will probably be buying a new toilet.

Carm
01-19-2016, 09:01 PM
Mr. Klotz
After reading many posts by you over the years and the great assistance you have been with mathematics it is incongruous with MY neural viewing screen that you should post this query but I do appreciate your sense of humour.
Get some slow setting epoxy (i.e. not 5 minute), wet out the area inside the dried tank. apply a swatch of fiberglass cloth (though you could use denim ) and wet that too. Allow to cure, can be accelerated with heat, but don't heat the tank first.

Works well with hand thrown kiln fired glazed custom pottery and rambunctious dogs.
No, not my dogs or pottery.

Doozer
01-19-2016, 09:01 PM
See? I don't make this stuff up.
But on occasion I do wear a lab coat
and walk around with a clipboard.

-D

danlb
01-19-2016, 09:11 PM
Drain the tank. Dry out the crack by putting an incandescent light bulb
(the ones that get hot) on the area for a few hours.
Use cyanoacrylate glue on the inside of the tank to wick into the crack. Not the gel kind. The liquid kind.
Done. Next problem.

--Doozer

I thought that superglue was OK for things that get wet, but not for water containers such as pots. Reportedly, it breaks down over time when wet. Of course, as a result I've never used it that way so I don't know if it would work well for a cracked toilet tank. The problem with toilet tanks is that if they crack badly they can leak a lot of water which may be un-noticed for hours.

Doozer, have you tried it, and was it a permanent repair?


Dan

Doozer
01-19-2016, 09:20 PM
You can glue a tooth in with it.

-D

firbikrhd1
01-19-2016, 09:29 PM
I can understand why someone might want to repair a toilet tank rather than replace it, even if a new toilet is inexpensive, color. Unless you have white bathroom fixtures the likelihood of finding a new toilet that matches tile, a tub and sink that are 5 or more years old is pretty slim.

If I were going to fix a tank I would use epoxy from the inside and some fiberglass mat; drying the tank well first, applying epoxy laminating resin (thin resin), a layer of mat and wetting it out with a brush, overlapping the crack by a couple of inches on each side and at the end of the crack, and perhaps a second layer of mat an inch or so wider. Doing so may prevent the crack from spreading further.

A.K. Boomer
01-19-2016, 09:31 PM
really just depends where the crack is --- if it's down by the two tank bolts or center flange then forget it --- not worth it - people lean their backs into the top tank whilst squeaking one out and it will just crack more or totally break --- if it's kinda a freak crack and not stressed then again dry tank out inside and wire brush area --- clean with some detergent then rinse and dry and apply permatex automotive grey ultra generously --- let dry - fill -- leak is fixed for good and at 1/600th the cost of a new toilet


want to use less water and still be able to flush a turd?

place full beer bottles in the tank --- perfect taper - keeps the main volume of "umph" water that's up high for a vigorous flush whilst saving lame useless water that's not much higher than bowl water from just going down the drain -- any other questions? just ask a plumber --- yes been there done that many decades ago --- whatever butters your bread -- just wash your hands first...

darryl
01-19-2016, 09:43 PM
It's nice to be able to get glue into a crack, not just lay across it. The only type of glue that would seem able to do this is CA. Drying the thing well before application is a matter of course for the most part.

CA will wick into the crack, and thus forms a bond line with some thickness as well as width to it. It would seem to me that it would endure years of exposure to water since only the edge of the glue is in contact. Contrast this with any other repair, which will expose one entire face of the glue application.

The other thing mentioned which I agree with is reinforcing a crack with fiberglass. Any other repair material, epoxy or whatever, would be subject to tension across the crack. If it's built up in thickness it will have more strength, but this is not the mode where the material has its best strength. Better to include some fiber crossing the crack.

I also agree that in this case it's probably best to replace rather than repair. SWMBO must be satisfied-

J Tiers
01-19-2016, 10:27 PM
Maybe the crack relieved the stress, and it will go for decades, or not.

Ours was a wall-mount tank that was probably installed in 1934. It lasted until a few years ago, and then it let go with a noise like a .32 going off upstairs. Leaking like the Titanic, of course, the crack was visibly open.

it was cold out, and had been, but the last time that one had been flushed was some time before, so it's less likely to have been a thermal shock issue. No idea why it went. No, it was not up where the lag bolts held it to the wall but rather in a bottom corner.

Would have been a good candidate for a repair, since it was an antique style, and also (which I didn't know) it had a smaller rough-in distance than nearly anything on the market. But the pipe had been a problem twice already, so out it went.

Definitely the CA glue. Although, I must say, I have had very little luck with them really wicking into a joint, even ones selected for being extremely thin and "watery" (really they are a little beyond watery). Been told it works, but have not found it to live up to reports.

TGTool
01-19-2016, 10:28 PM
Drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop it from spreading

I had a work companion who had been a young guy in the toolroom in England during WW II. There were also women on the job, though usually on less skilled work. On this day there was a snap gauge that had developed a crack in heat treat. Since tool steel was a valuable commodity and not to be wasted, they'd annealed it to have another go. The foreman had called one of the shop girls over, showed her the gauge and showed her where he wanted the hole drilled at the end of the crack. She asked what for, and he patiently explained about how that stopped the crack from spreading. She got a real knowing look on her face and the foreman asked if that had really cleared up a question for her. She said, "Yes, I always wondered what my navel was for." :D

ironmonger
01-19-2016, 10:31 PM
Hi Marv

FWIW here is my professional take on this whole deal. While it's certainly possible to repair the tank it's not a good idea. It may last 20 years, but the way stuff usually works out it will wait until you go away for a long weekend, break and run water till you get back.

4 days = 96 hours = 5760 minutes at 3 gallons per minute yields 17280 gallons of water inside your house. The good news is if you have a 2300 square foot house, the water will only be a foot deep...

42 years a plumber, happily retired the last 6 years

Doozer
01-19-2016, 11:02 PM
I have superglued a porcelain fuse holder together
with excellent results also. Not sure it would take
the heat of a porcelain light socket though.
I know yellow wood blue works great for Bakelite
and phenolic, but superglue might be even better.

-D

lakeside53
01-19-2016, 11:05 PM
If you really want to seal it (and not replace it) ... 3M 4200 or 5200 marine sealant. It's for under water use so put it on the inside. I wouldn't consider anything else..

A.K. Boomer
01-19-2016, 11:10 PM
this is why I asked about the history of the crack and the whereabouts ,,,

depends on whether or not you throw the toilet away or have it flush your turds for the rest of your life without a glitch ...

if it's in the "right place" your more apt to have your house flooded by an incompetent plumber *(esp. nowadays) not getting his supply line on correctly when replacing it than the old toilet ever giving a problem... is what it is..

J Tiers
01-19-2016, 11:51 PM
...
if it's in the "right place" your more apt to have your house flooded by an incompetent plumber *(esp. nowadays) not getting his supply line on correctly when replacing it than the old toilet ever giving a problem... is what it is..

Neighbors had a wonderful flood of HOT water from a compression nut that was not tightened down enough and loosened one day. Warped floors, soaked a bedroom plus the kitchen, they got home and found a sauna where the house should be.....

Incompetent plumber? Mostly just not very thorough...... Which may be exactly the same thing.....

Lee in Texas
01-20-2016, 12:31 AM
I'm also a licensed plumber. If I were to repair a crack in a tank...I'd be looking for a job the next day. I agree 100% with Ironmonger. IF that repair doesn't hold, it will leak until someone turns off the water. Lots of people have advice on how to repair it, but it's not their house that will flood if it doesn't work out. Flood damage can cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage. It can cause mold that can get your house condemned. Replace the toilet.

darryl
01-20-2016, 12:58 AM
And make sure it doesn't crack again!. Hmm, new stuff ain't what it used to be-

plunger
01-20-2016, 01:24 AM
I am a plumber for my day job. I use epoxy only after trying to make it very very clear that I take no responsibility for a bad idea. I even make note of it on my invoice.People forget the good advice you give them on a bad idea. Change it.

A.K. Boomer
01-20-2016, 01:29 AM
I'm also a licensed plumber. If I were to repair a crack in a tank...I'd be looking for a job the next day. I agree 100% with Ironmonger. IF that repair doesn't hold, it will leak until someone turns off the water. Lots of people have advice on how to repair it, but it's not their house that will flood if it doesn't work out. Flood damage can cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage. It can cause mold that can get your house condemned. Replace the toilet.

and on the flip side you just described perfectly what happens when an incompetent plumber does not get a supply line installed right ,,, sure they can hold for awhile - but -------------- ask me how I know and also check out JT's post about it ---- that's 2------------- how many houses have flooded from a guy trying to repair a crack in his tank in a no stress area that I know of ??? none... and again plumber in a past life here too ... just saying id be out of every job iv ever had if I did not apply common sense to all of them

Lee in Texas
01-20-2016, 01:51 AM
and on the flip side you just described perfectly what happens when an incompetent plumber does not get a supply line installed right ,,, sure they can hold for awhile - but -------------- ask me how I know and also check out JT's post about it ---- that's 2------------- how many houses have flooded from a guy trying to repair a crack in his tank in a no stress area that I know of ??? none... and again plumber in a past life here too ... just saying id be out of every job iv ever had if I did not apply common sense to all of them

I'm not aware of any plague of idiot plumbers who can't install a supply line. Maybe it's a common occurrence in other places, but Texas has some pretty strict licensing laws. Also- I have never worked for a company that would be OK with a repair that may flood a house, even with "No warranty expressed or implied" written on the invoice. That kind of thing doesn't hold up in court, at least not here in Texas. It's just asking for a lawsuit that the company has no hope of winning. Do it right or walk away. I have walked away plenty of times when people wanted me to do hillbilly repairs that don't meet code, just to save a few bucks. I have also added a 1/4 turn ball stop at no extra charge when the customer has a piece of junk angle stop with a built in copper supply line. Not doing so is asking for a flood. a commode replacement has enough money in it to throw in a $7 angle stop. If they don't want to pay me to do it right, they can gamble with Billy Joe Bob from down the street.

The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I am not a gambler. I would not take a chance on $50,000 in flood damage when $150 in parts could prevent it.

A.K. Boomer
01-20-2016, 02:01 AM
And once again nobodys asking you --- this is the homeowner making a decision --- big diff and he's actually got allot more info on it than you,,, that's why i asked how long has it been there? any progression? is it in a stressed area ?

all these questions add up to sound reasoning --- not for you to decide and have to make repairs like this all the time - but for someone who see's it every day and has seen it every day --- and my answer is still - just depends -- there are repairs that are about 0 risk and well worth it... and in comparison much less risk then installing a new one and wiggling and stressing old copper lines that you cannot SEE behind closed walls... again just telling it like it is.

it's a damn shame when people get other people running so freaking scared that they actually create a worse situation then what they originally had to deal with --- all common sense just as a HOMEOWNER use good judgement

danlb
01-20-2016, 02:17 AM
And once again nobodys asking you --- this is the homeowner making a decision ---

Check out post #11. He already made his decision, and it appears that he took the answer recommended by 3 out of 4 plumbers on this forum. :)

Dan

J Tiers
01-20-2016, 02:46 AM
For those recommending the CA adhesive, which would likely actually work, but is not a great idea........

Remember that you first have to get the water OUT of the crack. Ain't a glue around that will stick to water. Until and unless the crack is 100% dry, which might take days or weeks with a thin crack and wet weather, it flat will not work.

I hate plumbing. If I have to do it, I do it right just because I never ever want to see that problem again.

_Paul_
01-20-2016, 06:07 AM
CA can work in a wet environment, after you have used it coat the repair area with Silicon or paint, lacquer etc.

Paul

dian
01-20-2016, 06:13 AM
well, this can be used on wet surfaces and there are products that can be used under water:

http://www.mem.de/uploads/tx_approductdb/TM_MEM_Water_Stop_01.pdf

(sorry, didnt find an english version.)

but i still dont understand what is the material in question and if the crack is vetical or not. nothing is going to wick into such a crack unless you take the tank off the wall.

ironmonger
01-20-2016, 08:44 AM
<<snipp>>

I hate plumbing. If I have to do it, I do it right just because I never ever want to see that problem again.

Plumbers love people that hate plumbing :>)

A.K. Boomer
01-20-2016, 08:53 AM
Check out post #11. He already made his decision, and it appears that he took the answer recommended by 3 out of 4 plumbers on this forum. :)

Dan

Yes I understand that and that's what this is all about it's his call...

My point is that it's really a situation that just depends --- and then there's the borderline gray area which in that case if there's really any question then just throw the damn thing away.

but there are cracks that are totally stable for many years and in a place that is not threatening - they may be intermittent "seepers" big deal - seal them off and forget it - in that situation it really is a matter of just being smarter than the toilet,,

still --- if looking at it and unsure at all - or if it starts to make you frightened - or you find yourself laying on the bathroom floor in some kind of a fetal tuck every time you look at it --- or you stare at it for hours on end resulting in anxiety attacks then by all means replace the damn toilet...:p

J Tiers
01-20-2016, 09:20 AM
CA can work in a wet environment, after you have used it coat the repair area with Silicon or paint, lacquer etc.

Paul

I don't think you get it......

First, it can't GET TO the area to be there and work if water is already filling the narrow crack.

Second, it does not stick to water, it can't be THAT wet, anyhow.

Third, water makes CA set (hydroxide ions) so it doesn't wick in well in a wet place, it sets.

Carm
01-20-2016, 10:39 AM
Since we are all enjoying this thread with the exception of Mr.Klotz, another tidbit.
Epoxy can be thinned to wick into a crack with acetone or alcohol although excess solvent will weaken the bond. The amount of excess depends on the epoxy. Easily determined by sample testing. 10% seems to work for me. The cooling effect can prolong work time.

Of course the substrate can't be wet.

Whether the crack abutment actually needs glue in the OP's case is doubtful in my mind.
Getting a plain jane replacement tank is pretty easy and probably cheap if not free. My own house has custom colors so epoxy would be in hand.

Juiceclone
01-20-2016, 10:42 AM
A hairline crack, if dried out, can be sealed with cheap super glue. It's watery and will wick into places like that.
As far as the "low volume" toilets go, they flush themselves quite well, but the sewer lines out on an average home were designed for a much greater flow to carry waste out to the street. People installing them in older homes are becoming acquainted with rotorooter.

dian
01-20-2016, 11:10 AM
concerning the low volume toilets (sorry if ot). they are there for ecological reasons. it works like this: former toilet 8 liters, you flush once. ecological toilet 6 liters, you flush twice. at least i have to.

A.K. Boomer
01-20-2016, 11:20 AM
I would not trust just "super glue" it is way too brittle a fix and expansion contraction may very well get you again over time --- if you "must" use it then do yourself a favor and put a back up coating of either plumbers goop or automotive silicone over the top of it... from the inside, this is the perfect area for great adhesion and making a water tight seal --- the porcelain is rough on the inside - do it right and you will never get it off again even if you want too...

plunger
01-20-2016, 12:08 PM
concerning the low volume toilets (sorry if ot). they are there for ecological reasons. it works like this: former toilet 8 liters, you flush once. ecological toilet 6 liters, you flush twice. at least i have to.
I think you may be lacking iron in your diet.

Doozer
01-20-2016, 12:20 PM
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/flexsealclear-620x350.png
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qTZiOsJdo9Q/maxresdefault.jpg

plunger
01-20-2016, 12:46 PM
This is the stuff I use .Its a two part putty that you mix and then adhere to the crack. You then work it in nicely by using spit to smear it on past the crack. It has the same appearance and colour as unglazed porcelan.
There is no way in hell that it will leak.Thats not the problem. The problem is if the cistern has pressure on it by a fat person leaning on it to hard and the crack migrates past the patch. I often see cisterns completely crack in two pieces. What causes it ,I dont know.
http://www.pratleyadhesives.com/diy-adhesives/pratley-putty-original
The big problem I have is that most of the toilets that crack and are patched(and I think I have done maybe two in a twenty eight year career)are toilets that are obsolete. They are 13 liters as opposed to the 9 or 6 liters of today. When you change the cistern the new cistern is too small and many houses tile to the cistern and not behind ,so you are left with no tiles around the cistern.Or the cistern is avocado green.
A safe way to do this is to probably line the entire inside of the cistern with resin and fiber mat. If it completely cracked it would make no difference.
You americans talk funny.Commode is a funny name for a toilet. I am impressed an off topic subject like toilets can get so far on a machining forum.
And is it true you guys sue everyone for nothing.:p

J Tiers
01-20-2016, 01:02 PM
...
You americans talk funny.Commode is a funny name for a toilet. I am impressed an off topic subject like toilets can get so far on a machining forum.
And is it true you guys sue everyone for nothing.:p

I have perhaps heard a few people use the term "commode". Somewhere. Maybe.

And, I think I personally know TWO people who have been threatened with lawsuits. Neither was ever actually sued. And one of those was for patent infringement on a wooshop vacuum system gate setup... That was squashed when the person referred the lawyers to a magazine article....

Most of the lawsuits are for product liability.... a dangerous product, or one that is alleged to be dangerous. The average "American" is not safe out....too stupid to know not to pick up a running lawnmower.

Dave C
01-20-2016, 02:07 PM
I have perhaps heard a few people use the term "commode". Somewhere. Maybe.

And, I think I personally know TWO people who have been threatened with lawsuits. Neither was ever actually sued. And one of those was for patent infringement on a wooshop vacuum system gate setup... That was squashed when the person referred the lawyers to a magazine article....

Most of the lawsuits are for product liability.... a dangerous product, or one that is alleged to be dangerous. The average "American" is not safe out....too stupid to know not to pick up a running lawnmower.

Commode | Definition of Commode by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commode
Merriam‑Webster
Simple Definition of commode. : a low piece of furniture with drawers or sometimes a door and shelves. : a chair with a hole in the seat and a pot underneath that is used as a toilet.

Toilet | Definition of Toilet by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toilet
Merriam‑Webster
Full Definition of toilet. 1 archaic : dressing table. 2 : the act or process of dressing and grooming oneself. 3a (1) : bathroom, lavatory 2 (2) : privyb : a fixture that consists usually of a water-flushed bowl and seat and is used for defecation and urination.
I had never heard a toilet called a commode until moving to the South fifty odd years ago. It is a commonly used term here, possibly as a more dignified word than Toilet.
I suppose the nomenclature is dependant on your location, which begs the question, "Where in hell is the principality of Sinquefieldia" ?

Carm
01-20-2016, 06:26 PM
Ah, yes, Pratley's Putty. It is not available Stateside and there is no equivalent that I know of.
My mate Nigel used to do his own dental work and used it for his fillings. If you see a mid 70's character riding a '67 Bonny around Joburg that's him.
Americans aren't familiar with W.C., loo or the bog either not to mention geyser. But seeing the cistern up near the ceiling would truly amaze.

Compared to S.A. yes this is a very litiguous society.

J Tiers
01-20-2016, 06:38 PM
...
I suppose the nomenclature is dependant on your location, which begs the question, "Where in hell is the principality of Sinquefieldia" ?

Perzactly where I say it is..... Read the whole location.....

gellfex
01-20-2016, 09:53 PM
concerning the low volume toilets (sorry if ot). they are there for ecological reasons. it works like this: former toilet 8 liters, you flush once. ecological toilet 6 liters, you flush twice. at least i have to.

Get a newer one. The early ones were kludges of adapting small tanks to bowls designed for large ones. My MIL's toilets take about 5 minutes to flush! The newer ones are MUCH better. I've installed I think 14 American Standard Cadet 3 5L toilets in my rentals and my mother's apt, 2 in my home, and have not had any flush complaints. Mine simply never need double flushes. VOOSH, it's gone, and not with a pressure tank (had one, it sucked and scared my small kids). The trick to these is a 3" tank valve port rather than the typical 2". I have determined this is one of the rare occasions the cheapest is actually the best, have bought them for as low as $99, though $140 is more typical now.

I'll pile on with the plumbers, replace it, or at least the tank if it's a newer toilet.

Dave C
01-20-2016, 09:54 PM
Perzactly where I say it is..... Read the whole location.....

I did but Mo is a big place. I lived there for a while until the war in Nam ended and killed the St. Louis economy.

dneufell
01-20-2016, 10:22 PM
Hi Guys!!!!!
I just got back from Cabin Fever Expo. Turned on the computer and clicked on my favorite homeshopmachinist link.
Kids say lol but I am old school so I'm laughing my ass off and coke came out my nose a bit at this thread. Im going to sleep late tomorrow and then back to work :) .....Dean

Black_Moons
01-21-2016, 05:53 AM
I think you must know me; that's a perfect description of what my imagination was showing on my neural viewing screen.

Actually, it was a toilet that made me give up DIY plumbing. I applied a smidgen too much pressure while trying to loosen 10 years of corrosion on the actuator handle assembly. A 10 pound dagger of ceramic tore from the tank and missed impaling my foot by an inch followed immediately, of course, by all the water in the tank flooding the bathroom and an adjacent hall.

Thanks for reminding me. I think I'll call the plumber and have them install a new tank.

Thanks also to everyone who offered advice. I'm sorry I wasted your time.

this is precisely why I hate plumbing. Anything that can go wrong with plumbing, will.

Also, Ceramic shards are not to be messed with. Sharp like glass.

Black_Moons
01-21-2016, 05:59 AM
Neighbors had a wonderful flood of HOT water from a compression nut that was not tightened down enough and loosened one day. Warped floors, soaked a bedroom plus the kitchen, they got home and found a sauna where the house should be.....

Incompetent plumber? Mostly just not very thorough...... Which may be exactly the same thing.....

Yea iv had the hose on the toilet just fly off one day. Also had my water regulator crack at the flange for its built in union... Twice, once in a week after replacement, plumber replaced for free, again 6 months later, I replaced myself with a more expensive regulator from the local plumbing store.

Thankfully both times I noticed the sound of the leak very early because water sounds freak me out as I HATE flooding.


I'm also a licensed plumber. If I were to repair a crack in a tank...I'd be looking for a job the next day. I agree 100% with Ironmonger. IF that repair doesn't hold, it will leak until someone turns off the water. Lots of people have advice on how to repair it, but it's not their house that will flood if it doesn't work out. Flood damage can cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage. It can cause mold that can get your house condemned. Replace the toilet.

And this is why I hate flooding. Mold, turns all drywall into mush you can poke a finger through (Even after it dries), mold ON the drywall (it never really dries..), ruined/warped flooring, laminate flooring delaminating from the floor. Corroded wiring, etc.

vpt
01-21-2016, 08:42 AM
A new tank is what $50? Yes you can buy just the tank and it comes with all new internals.

Rosco-P
01-21-2016, 10:16 AM
A new tank is what $50? Yes you can buy just the tank and it comes with all new internals.

Tanks aren't universal like that. Are automotive oil filters?

A Glacier Bay tank is not going to fit on an Eljer, American Standard or Kohler toilet, nor the reverse. If the toilet is more than a few years old unlikely to be able to purchase a matching tank at a plumbing supply or even order one.

vpt
01-21-2016, 10:26 AM
Tanks aren't universal like that. Are automotive oil filters?

A Glacier Bay tank is not going to fit on an Eljer, American Standard or Kohler toilet, nor the reverse. If the toilet is more than a few years old unlikely to be able to purchase a matching tank at a plumbing supply or even order one.

At the same time they don't change design for years so if you can find the place that deals with your make of toilet the "new tank" will most likely fit your old toilet. Yes they are different between manufacturers, some have two bolts, some have three, and the holes are different sizes but like I said if you find the same manufacturer it is most likely a match.

I am the care taker for many rental houses and have replaced more toilets than I care to think about. I have replaced just the tank on many toilets because people that rent houses don't care. Likewise I have pulled toilets to get all sorts of toys, pencils, or other foreign matter out of them.

Normally when they crack you are screwed, thats why I mentioned get a new tank. Brass bolts hold up better than the steel ones, I like to also stick rubber or topper tape between the ridges of the toilet and the tank as well so there is no porcelain to porcelain contact, leave the tank just slightly loose so it can move around a bit if it needs to. Solid and porcelain don't mix.

Rosco-P
01-21-2016, 11:58 AM
Big differences in some Kohler tanks. As for putting a new tank on an old bowl, what a waste of time. Little water savings, no improvement in flush efficiency.

Video Man
01-21-2016, 12:22 PM
It's just my personal experience, but I had such a hairline crack in a tank once, tried to patch it. But the crack was an indicator of internal stresses --- maybe I overtightened the bolts, maybe just a bad one ---- but it let go in the middle of the night and the whole tank opened up. What a mess. Suggesting replacing the tank, for sure.

dian
01-21-2016, 01:34 PM
this you can apply under water and it brigdes gaps up to 10 mm:

http://www2.decotric.com/UserFiles/File/d_Katalog_Gesamt_2013.pdf

page 42, product 1567 wasser-dicht.

have fun.

tc429
01-21-2016, 10:02 PM
agree- get a new tank... but talking of glues- if something is dry, and thin CA put over a crack, then baking soda, more CA, it sets up like concrete...likely not indefinitely waterproof, but overcoat it with 'goop' or something with a little elasticity, even just pant...

the CA/soda thing is a old model airplane trick, keep it in mind for other things though- use FRESH thin ca, fresh baking soda(the old box from the freezer dont work as well, trust me) and you can glue literally anything to anything...steel to rubber- sure, wood to plastic, sure- seriously, its great for fixing about anything that breaks...my favorite 'fix' for old laptop screen hinges/cases- even my old 65 pound 'portable' Fanuc P-G markII that was busted up in shipping was reassembled with CA/soda 20 yrs ago...

cracked toilet tank, one of the bigger threads here- who da thunk it :)

yf
01-22-2016, 02:41 AM
[QUOTE=J Tiers;1026452]Maybe the crack relieved the stress, and it will go for decades, or not.

Ours was a wall-mount tank that was probably installed in 1934. It lasted until a few years ago, and then it let go with a noise like a .32 going off upstairs. Leaking like the Titanic, of course, the crack was visibly open.

it was cold out, and had been, but the last time that one had been flushed was some time before, so it's less likely to have been a thermal shock issue./QUOTE]

Maybe a stray boolit through open window?
:)

darryl
01-22-2016, 03:07 AM
I'm another fan of that Pratley epoxy putty- great stuff.

Doozer
01-22-2016, 03:37 PM
Not too related, but...
One time I was working on the toilet float valve.
I had set the lid of the tank on the edge of the
bathtub as I worked. I carelessly ended up knocking
the lid, and it fell into the bathtub, and it chipped a
piece out of the one corner, on the underside of the
lid. Kinda ugly. So I took it out to the shop, and I
smoothed out the chipped corner with the 5" angle
grinder. It looked kinda good, only now the lid was
not symmetrical looking. So, I had the angle grinder,
and I ground the opposite (good) corner to match the
chipped corner that I had just touched up. Bingo, it
did look good and smooth and symmetrical again.
I used some superglue to seal the porcelain that I had
hit with the grinder, and I took it back and put it
back on the toilet. It looks like a factory lid, and the
smoothed corners add kind of a fancy detail to it.
I was quite proud of myself.

--Doozer

Carm
01-22-2016, 04:55 PM
I'm another fan of that Pratley epoxy putty- great stuff.

Well, I'll be ......
Since you can get it in Canukistan, I poked about and of course the large river in S. America has it. The ad says "South African prices" but mebbe they'll drone it.
Thanks for the heads up.

plunger
01-22-2016, 05:04 PM
I'm another fan of that Pratley epoxy putty- great stuff.
I was not expecting to hear anyone know about prately putty.

ironmonger
01-22-2016, 06:52 PM
We have our own version in the US...
Hercules ProPoxy (http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-25515-PRO-POXY-Epoxy-4oz/dp/B000BQLSXQ)

Doozer
01-22-2016, 08:14 PM
I have patched diesel fuel tanks (still full) with Hercules ProPoxy.
I have patched anti-freeze lines that rusted though on the side of the road.
I have patched steam boiler tubes with it.
I have patched water leaks in metal roofs with it.
I have even put it in scratches in engine cylinder bores.
And yes when I tore the engine down years later, it was still there.
The stuff is more amazing than I can say.
I have had the best luck with the Hercules brand, I must say.

-Doozer

Glug
01-22-2016, 08:30 PM
I am downstate visiting a friend. He has two toilets. One developed a tank crack a number of years ago and he has left it dry. I have in the past suggested I would help him replace it, but he has always expressed concern there could be unknown plumbing issues lying in wait.

Recently his 'backup' toilet has developed a flushing problem - the flush lever will not return to off without manual assist. Did I mention he is a bachelor? I suggested we should replace the tank guts. He said he had an easier solution - an appointment with a plumber, for Wednesday, to replace the guts and the other toilet.

Today I suggested we go shop for a new toilet and at least consider removing the old one. With some support from the Menards guy, I talked him into possibly doing it ourselves. We did, and it all went well. He's now back up to 1.8 toilets and I think he has the confidence to tackle replacing the guts of the other one. We picked up a kit for $10.

They had a decent seeming toilet at Menards for $89. Looked like a great deal. So there is much to be said for just replacement. He went for a more stylish model of American Standard, with a higher and longer bowl. Though the seat is a slow drop model, it is junk and the hinge pivot has a lot of slop in it, as if the pin is undersize. If you dared sit on the lid, I think it would shatter. It might be better to plan on buying a good seat.

firbikrhd1
01-22-2016, 10:33 PM
I am amazed that this thread has gone on to 8 pages, so I thought I'd help it go a bit longer.
Earlier I posted a suggestion of using thin laminating epoxy with fiberglass mat. Several people have expressed concerns that a crack might run further or the tank suddenly and catastrophically fail. Maybe I missed a mention of it but, taking my original post a bit further, there is nothing preventing anyone from lining the inside of a cracked tank completely using my originally posted method, much like building a fiberglass boat using the original tank as a "mold". In essence you are building a vessel inside the tank. Should the tank fail the epoxy/fiberglass is still acting as a vessel to hold the water. What you have is a fiberglass tank covered by a porcelain shell for appearance.

PStechPaul
01-22-2016, 11:21 PM
Here is a patent on a good idea that can prevent flooding in the case of a toilet flush tank breaking or leaking profusely. I had thought about rigging up a water alarm to a valve that would shut off the tank supply in case of such a leak, but this invention, being a simple interlock that prevents automatic refill unless the flush handle is operated, seems simpler and more effective:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4843657

BTW, I have an American Standard toilet that I installed around 1995, and have used daily since I moved back into this house in 1999. It still works perfectly although I often must use a plunger to flush solid waste. But it seems to flush only with about 1/3 of the tank (which is good for the yellow after I let it mellow), and when it's brown and I need to flush it down, I can hold the handle and drain the tank which usually clears the bowl. I'm not sure if it's designed that way, or just an undocumented feature?

KIMFAB
01-22-2016, 11:49 PM
I think all modern toilets use a 1/3 flush for normal use to save water,
You hold the handle down for a full flush and grab the plunger when a full flush is just a little too much. :rolleyes:

gellfex
01-23-2016, 12:57 AM
BTW, I have an American Standard toilet that I installed around 1995, and have used daily since I moved back into this house in 1999. It still works perfectly although I often must use a plunger to flush solid waste. But it seems to flush only with about 1/3 of the tank (which is good for the yellow after I let it mellow), and when it's brown and I need to flush it down, I can hold the handle and drain the tank which usually clears the bowl. I'm not sure if it's designed that way, or just an undocumented feature?

Sorry, that's not "working perfectly". As I said upthread, replace it and end the suspense about whether your turd will make it's epic journey without your intervention. New ones are great,and it doesn't need to be a $500 Toto.

J Tiers
01-23-2016, 01:12 AM
Our newer upstairs toilet will do a part flush if you hold the handle partway and release it before the tank empties. I assume this is a part flush option.

plunger
01-23-2016, 01:45 AM
I am amazed that this thread has gone on to 8 pages, so I thought I'd help it go a bit longer.
Earlier I posted a suggestion of using thin laminating epoxy with fiberglass mat. Several people have expressed concerns that a crack might run further or the tank suddenly and catastrophically fail. Maybe I missed a mention of it but, taking my original post a bit further, there is nothing preventing anyone from lining the inside of a cracked tank completely using my originally posted method, much like building a fiberglass boat using the original tank as a "mold". In essence you are building a vessel inside the tank. Should the tank fail the epoxy/fiberglass is still acting as a vessel to hold the water. What you have is a fiberglass tank covered by a porcelain shell for appearance.

I have considered this myself but never put it in practice. It basically creates a new tank and uses the old one as a facade.Its a good idea for obsolete toilets but not cheaper than replacing a cistern if it can be sourced.

vpt
01-23-2016, 09:23 AM
I was having a problem with flushing my toilet for awhile. Any amount of solids would seem to plug it up much easier than it did before. My new camera happened to come in on the same day!

http://i.imgur.com/kZxxxhy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yq7A5NZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/haESbRm.jpg

Doozer
01-23-2016, 09:51 AM
What does a constipated mathematician do?
He works it out with a pencil.

--Doozer

Seastar
01-23-2016, 10:14 AM
What does a constipated mathematician do?
He works it out with a pencil.

--Doozer

THAT'S IT!
George please close this ****ty thread!
LOL,
Bill

plunger
01-23-2016, 10:44 AM
[/QUOTE]Thanks for reminding me. I think I'll call the plumber and have them install a new tank.

Thanks also to everyone who offered advice. I'm sorry I wasted your time.[/QUOTE]

Mklotz comes over to me as a very structurede and analytical person. I have never been able to appreciate his programs because I am ashamed to say that I dont know my way around dos programs or computers at all.
I have a suspicion that his toilet has been fixed by a plumber and he is getting on with his life.:D
I at least know my way around toilets

Black_Moons
01-23-2016, 05:27 PM
I am amazed that this thread has gone on to 8 pages, so I thought I'd help it go a bit longer.
Earlier I posted a suggestion of using thin laminating epoxy with fiberglass mat. Several people have expressed concerns that a crack might run further or the tank suddenly and catastrophically fail. Maybe I missed a mention of it but, taking my original post a bit further, there is nothing preventing anyone from lining the inside of a cracked tank completely using my originally posted method, much like building a fiberglass boat using the original tank as a "mold". In essence you are building a vessel inside the tank. Should the tank fail the epoxy/fiberglass is still acting as a vessel to hold the water. What you have is a fiberglass tank covered by a porcelain shell for appearance.

Sure, but that is $50 in fiberglass/resin to fix a $50 tank.

And you still need to make a seal for the flushing valve in your new fiberglass tank.

firbikrhd1
01-23-2016, 06:09 PM
Sure, but that is $50 in fiberglass/resin to fix a $50 tank.

And you still need to make a seal for the flushing valve in your new fiberglass tank.


Granted, if you have white then buy a white tank or entire modern white toilet and be done with it. On the other hand if you have colored bathroom fixtures that match sinks, tub and surrounding tile that are no longer available it's a lot cheaper than replacing all the fixtures and tile to have them match. It doesn't take much difference in color when you have colored fixtures to make changes noticeable. "Bone" isn't always the same color, nor is beige, red, blue or any other color. Sometimes colors even vary from batch to batch within the same factory if produced a few months apart.
To we men, it may not make a hill of beans worth of difference as long as we have someplace to "go". Add a style conscious woman to your life and it does make a difference.

Unless I am misunderstanding your meaning, the "seals" for most tanks are rubber and will conform to most reasonably smooth surfaces. Surfaces of that type should not be difficult to obtain with resins. A simple tape dam around an opening and some extra resin allowed to build up there will provide a very smooth surface. Generally the epoxies I have worked with flow out and leave a surface that is very smooth. Think of the wood table tops you see occasionally in restaurants that have a glass like finish and sometimes are seen with coins, carvings or other objects embedded in the surfacing material.

plunger
01-23-2016, 06:22 PM
Granted, if you have white then buy a white tank or entire modern white toilet and be done with it. On the other hand if you have colored bathroom fixtures that match sinks, tub and surrounding tile that are no longer available it's a lot cheaper than replacing all the fixtures and tile to have them match. It doesn't take much difference in color when you have colored fixtures to make changes noticeable. "Bone" isn't always the same color, nor is beige, red, blue or any other color. Sometimes colors even vary from batch to batch within the same factory if produced a few months apart.
To we men, it may not make a hill of beans worth of difference as long as we have someplace to "go". Add a style conscious woman to your life and it does make a difference.

Unless I am misunderstanding your meaning, the "seals" for most tanks are rubber and will conform to most reasonably smooth surfaces. Surfaces of that type should not be difficult to obtain with resins. A simple tape dam around an opening and some extra resin allowed to build up there will provide a very smooth surface. Generally the epoxies I have worked with flow out and leave a surface that is very smooth. Think of the wood table tops you see occasionally in restaurants that have a glass like finish and sometimes are seen with coins, carvings or other objects embedded in the surfacing material.

In cases where I have replaced a broken cistern that is for eg avocado green I have had a white one resprayed by professional bath re enamelers. You cant make out the difference in colour and they are surprisingly durable.

vpt
01-23-2016, 06:31 PM
Could always have your throne wrapped.

http://www.camomyride.com/post_gallery/camo-my-ride-462890423748489_g.jpg

firbikrhd1
01-23-2016, 07:24 PM
In cases where I have replaced a broken cistern that is for eg avocado green I have had a white one resprayed by professional bath re enamelers. You cant make out the difference in colour and they are surprisingly durable.

Certainly that is another option. There are probably 20 ways to attack the problem, finding what suits you best for your situation is the key. Some areas may not have re-enamelers available, some folks (boat builders for example) may have ample supplies of fiberglass on hand, till others may be able to find a tank that works and is close enough in color and some may not even care about color. I was just offering another idea for a repair that would counter those concerned about continuing cracks and catastrophic failures.

A.K. Boomer
01-23-2016, 09:12 PM
Could always have your throne wrapped.

http://www.camomyride.com/post_gallery/camo-my-ride-462890423748489_g.jpg


I don't know what to say --- "groovy" maybe???

this is the type of stuff im talking about --- people freak out about repairing a little crack in a non-stressed area but then you see supply lines like this and everybody gives it the green light... lol

lugnut
01-23-2016, 11:08 PM
Come on guys, give it a rest, Marv gave up 4 days and 77 posts ago an went and bought a new toilet. It's no wonder why people have quit posting here, they get pounded into a pulp before you turkeys get done.

plunger
01-24-2016, 05:04 AM
HOME DEPOT SPECIAL AND CLEVER SCAM.
You can get a water saving dual flush toilet tank for $50 at HOME DEPOT.
But be careful guys there is a clever scam going down.When you return to your car there are two skimpy dressed girls cleaning your window with their breasts almost falling out.Its impossible to not look.
When you try to tip them they ask you to rather drop them off at Macdonalds.They climb in the back but while you are driving they start undressing and one climbs over to the front seat and starts frolicking with you .The other then steals your wallet.
Ive had my wallet stolen on the January 11 ,the 13th, 15th, twice on the 18th and yesterday.
Be carefull guys.




Maybe this thread will be closed now:p

Rosco-P
01-24-2016, 09:25 AM
But be careful guys there is a clever scam going down.When you return to your car there are two skimpy dressed girls cleaning your window with their breasts almost falling out.Its impossible to not look.



You know the rule.....pictures or it didn't happen.