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GEP
03-14-2016, 11:47 AM
On my Atlas the gear noise is louder as i like it to be. I bean looking into nylon gears to replace the tumbler gears. The concern i have
will the nylon gears withstand the torque and pressure. Any input will be appreciated
Thanks

Carm
03-14-2016, 12:52 PM
I think you'd be OK. Consider Nylatron GS rather than plain nylon.

DaveR
03-14-2016, 01:09 PM
I did this to my Seneca Falls lathe a few years ago, for the same reason (noise). I suggest using acetal (Delrin) as it's more stable than straight nylon when the humidity changes. My gears are still working fine after about ten years.

Dave

strokersix
03-14-2016, 01:11 PM
Watch for moisture swelling with nylons. If you can adjust gear mesh this should not be a problem but for fixed centerlines you must add nominal backlash to be sure they don't bind when swollen with moisture.

Properly applied, nylon gears are surprisingly strong and if you keep them clean and greased will last a long time.

strokersix
03-14-2016, 01:14 PM
I suggest you DO NOT use acetal on acetal, even if greased. acetal on nylon is a slippery friction couple but acetal on acetal is not.

gzig5
03-14-2016, 01:35 PM
I've been running a Nylon/Acetel gear on the L - N - R selector of my 12" Atlas/Craftsman for a long time with no problems. It quiets the gear train quite a bit and I've only done the one gear. That and that sticky black chain lube are the best thing to quiet it down.

gvasale
03-14-2016, 01:54 PM
Do you have the clearances set, and use a little lubricant?

old mart
03-14-2016, 02:06 PM
Are you absolutely sure of the noise source?

GEP
03-14-2016, 02:16 PM
My noise is mostly the tumbler gears. I have clearance. gzig5 where did you buy the gears ? I bean looking at the ones from MSC but they are all nylon

Magicniner
03-14-2016, 02:24 PM
Whale Tufnol is good for tumbler gears and runs relatively quietly

GEP
03-14-2016, 02:29 PM
If i go with acetal or delrin do i need a bushing insert

GEP
03-14-2016, 02:40 PM
One other point my south bend ( steel gears ) lathe is not nearly as noisy as my atlas, atlas gears are zimac a much softer metal

flylo
03-14-2016, 03:17 PM
I've been running a Nylon/Acetel gear on the L - N - R selector of my 12" Atlas/Craftsman for a long time with no problems. It quiets the gear train quite a bit and I've only done the one gear. That and that sticky black chain lube are the best thing to quiet it down.

You can switch the gears & it normally quites down as the one gear wears more because of the load put on it. Also someone sell steel gears that will fit.

gzig5
03-14-2016, 03:34 PM
My noise is mostly the tumbler gears. I have clearance. gzig5 where did you buy the gears ? I bean looking at the ones from MSC but they are all nylon

I think I got it through McMaster Carr. It's been quite a few years though. I don't think Nylon should be any problem with the amount of clearance these gears run and in fact the clearance is fixed for the gears on the tumbler. For other positions, if it were to swell up for some reason you'll hear it and be able to adjust as needed. I've never touched mine since install. I'll have to look tonight, but I think I did one of the little gears on the tumbler. I'll try to remember to check and report back.

old mart
03-14-2016, 04:59 PM
Another advantage of plastic gears is they are sacrificial.

GEP
03-14-2016, 05:51 PM
I think I got it through McMaster Carr. It's been quite a few years though. I don't think Nylon should be any problem with the amount of clearance these gears run and in fact the clearance is fixed for the gears on the tumbler. For other positions, if it were to swell up for some reason you'll hear it and be able to adjust as needed. I've never touched mine since install. I'll have to look tonight, but I think I did one of the little gears on the tumbler. I'll try to remember to check and report back.

Thanks gzig5 in fact thank you to all

ammcoman2
03-14-2016, 06:29 PM
Once had a 920 lathe (since sold) on which I made up a tumbler reverse using nylon gears (60T). The idea was that this was to be the sacrificial link. Even bought two spares. Never had any problems in many years of use and many jobs were intermittent cuts. I think the hygroscopic aspect of nylon is not an issue on molded gears.

Geoff

Black_Moons
03-14-2016, 06:53 PM
Another advantage of plastic gears is they are sacrificial.

Yep. They don't seem much weaker then iron/steel gears to be honest either. You would think they would wear faster, but with poor lubrication as is often encountered in real life, they often wear *less* then steel on steel.

Plus, they are much less likely to wear out the other gears in the gear train as they do wear since they are much softer then steel. Lathe feed gears are usually pretty beefy for the torque they must transmit in most tasks, so the only time they strip is when you do something really wrong, like crash the tool into a shoulder too big to cut.

Cuttings
03-14-2016, 07:40 PM
The last time I changed the oil in the headstock of my lathe I tried synthetic oil. It was a little more expensive but it seems to run somewhat quieter now.
Or maybe it is just my imagination.

dave_r
03-14-2016, 08:57 PM
What synthetic oil did you try in your headstock? And would it be appropriate to also use in the carriage?

GEP
03-14-2016, 09:55 PM
I use synthetic oil but it is not open gear oil it helps for a while but its not permanent. Years ago when i worked in the shop we had a old open gear lathe i used STP that made the gears real quiet it also makes a mess under the guards

alanganes
03-14-2016, 11:09 PM
Using a non-metallic gear is not unheard of at all. My old Sheldon (most Sheldons from what I understand) came from the factory with one gear in headstock gear train that was made from Formica. I believe this served double duty of quieting the gear train and also serving as a sacrificial part in the event of a crash. Mine was made sometime in the late 1950's and is still going strong. I'd expect that there are lots of interesting suitable materials available for this sort of thing these days. If you try this, please make sure to post what you end up with and how it works out. I for one really like hearing the outcome of these sort of projects, even if they don't accomplish the original goal. Then we all learn something!

GEP
03-15-2016, 12:33 PM
Using a non-metallic gear is not unheard of at all. My old Sheldon (most Sheldons from what I understand) came from the factory with one gear in headstock gear train that was made from Formica. I believe this served double duty of quieting the gear train and also serving as a sacrificial part in the event of a crash. Mine was made sometime in the late 1950's and is still going strong. I'd expect that there are lots of interesting suitable materials available for this sort of thing these days. If you try this, please make sure to post what you end up with and how it works out. I for one really like hearing the outcome of these sort of projects, even if they don't accomplish the original goal. Then we all learn something!

Is that gear right on the spindle

RB211
03-15-2016, 05:42 PM
Hell, the Kawasaki engine on my John Deere 285 uses a plastic gear for the cam shaft. However in that application, it was deemed a failure, and they fail at around 800 hours... Think next year I am going to replace it with a steel one.

DaveR
03-15-2016, 08:17 PM
If i go with acetal or delrin do i need a bushing insert

I didn't use separate bushings in the tumbler gears that I made -- the delrin runs directly on the steel shafts.

alanganes
03-15-2016, 10:43 PM
Is that gear right on the spindle

No, in this case it is one of the intermediate gears that drives the lead screw. I'm working out of state for a few days so can't snap a picture, but can do that when I get home if that helps. I guess that there is not reason it could not be though, if that is the one you need to replace in your case.

EDIT - Take a look at this copy of the Sheldon manual located here:

Sheldon Manual (http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Michael_Moore/sheldonarmy10.pdf)

Look on page 9 and it is item #3. Also a few pages further (page 11) in indicates that one of the reversing plate gears is formica also. Never noticed that on mine, but I can't say I've looked, either.

Hope that helps some.

vpt
03-16-2016, 08:23 AM
The gears on my atlas got much much quieter after I applied ARP assembly lube (moly grease) to them. The gears have very good covers so I am not worried about a chip getting stuck in the grease. Have been running it this way for a couple years now and am very pleased with how quiet it is now.

GEP
03-16-2016, 11:27 AM
Thanks alanganes i think i will use Delrin gears on the tumbler .
I have bean searching for Delrin gears with out luck if any one else has a supply source please buzzzzz me