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View Full Version : Has Anyone Used These Drill Bits



JoeLee
04-10-2016, 11:56 AM
I had to help a friend out the other day. As usual, never prepared and never has the right tools on hand, it's figure it out when you get there. Poor or I should say no planning.
Any way............... I had to drill a bunch of 3/8" holes in some 1/4" plate. He ran to HD to buy some drills. He came back with these.
At a first quick glance I though coolant through drills? na, not at HD. Any way.......... they looked real impressive but actually ended up being about the worst drill bits I've ever used in a hand drill. First off, they are way too aggressive.......... they bite in and want to rip the drill right out of your hand, weather you start a pilot hole or not, didn't matter, and when you start to come through the other end they would snag and either rip the drill out of your hand and chip the cutting edge.
I ended up bending the two reduced (soft shank) 1/2" bits.
I've never had this kind of a problem drilling any holes in any material with a hand drill as I did with these bits.
They might be OK in a mill or drill press where you can control the feed, but not in a hand drill.
And being sold at HD you know that most people buying them are using them in a hand drill.

JL...................

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac317/JoeLee09/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141327_zpsvycwakri.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/JoeLee09/media/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141327_zpsvycwakri.jpg.html)
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac317/JoeLee09/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141246_zpskugzx8ma.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/JoeLee09/media/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141246_zpskugzx8ma.jpg.html)
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac317/JoeLee09/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141209_zpszxwo0ov9.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/JoeLee09/media/Milwaukee%20Drill%20Bits/IMG_20160409_141209_zpszxwo0ov9.jpg.html)

greatbasin
04-10-2016, 12:09 PM
I would transform the bit, use coolant we use water in a spray bottle. This has worked for more than 50 years. My two bits. John

flylo
04-10-2016, 12:44 PM
Probably why they call them "Shockwave"

J Tiers
04-10-2016, 01:20 PM
They look like a decent split point, but with more backside relief than usual, which is likely why they are so aggressive. Also maybe a bit more twist per inch.

I can sure see those breaking through and "screwing right down" in the hole until the end of the flute breaks off the last of the material in the hole.

Mike Nash
04-10-2016, 02:41 PM
I personally won't buy parabolic flute drills or those with very few twists for any hand drill usage. I have some Blu-Mols that are very controllable drilling through thinner metal pieces (say 16-14 gauge.) The others just grab, hit the enclosure behind the panel and snap off. I haven't looked to see if they are still available lately.

Those Milwaukees do claim to be impact duty. I wonder if that would actually help with not grabbing? The variable helix sure doesn't seem like it would make any difference in thinner metal like the I-Beam they show.

Black_Moons
04-10-2016, 03:47 PM
Agreed, I think they might be for impact guns mainly. Where the grabbing is much less a problem as you don't get torque transmitted to your wrist via impact drivers.

if I was you, I would hit them up with a diamond hone (at least, ones without chipped flutes.. those need to go to a bench grinder/belt sander) and give them much less relief. That should help them be much less aggressive. Does not take much honing to totally change how the drill bit behaves, Only need to have the relief go back a few thou from the cutting edge for it to be effective.

J Tiers
04-10-2016, 07:16 PM
It's possible that a tiny bit of "brass honing" on the front of the edges as they are, might be enough to control them. Lots simpler than re-sharpening them.

jacampb2
04-10-2016, 07:31 PM
I've got oodles of those drills. A whole set of craftsman brand by 1/64th to 1/2". I bought them probably fifteen years ago, not for impact, in fact they probably predate these little battery impacts by a bit of a margin. I never had a problem drilling with them, they are aggressive, but I don't do much hand drilling. I have no idea what the concentric grove is on the tip, but it goes away with a few sharpenings. I normally split the point as well, but not quite as dramatic as how they come from the factory.

For more drill oddities, I have a set of Dewalt drills that was given to me as a gift. These are the "pilot point" variety, however, they have a very steep helix angle and I believe they also have the concentric groove that your drills have. I'll have to grab a picture next time I'm in the shop. I like the "pilot point" for it's obvious benefits, but for me it's to fiddly to regrind, so they normally don't last through one trip to the grinder with me...

Later,
Jason

JoeLee
04-10-2016, 08:43 PM
I've never heard of impact drilling steel. I never thought to give that a try while I was at it. The package does say for impact and regular drills.

JL...............

Mike Nash
04-10-2016, 08:49 PM
They claim the groove is a chip breaker to reduce heat build up. Home Depot reviews look to be love 'em or hate 'em.

Mike Nash
04-10-2016, 09:12 PM
I think I'm gonna barf. Red helix is not defined anywhere I have found. No red to be seen on the helix anywhere either. So like "pre-owned" doesn't mean "before anyone has owned it", I think Red or RED is a stand-in for "reduced" as in the helix angle drops from 35 to 15. Stupid pointless marketing gimmicks. The pre-release preview demonstration of course shows them drilling wood with their metal or hard metal RED HELIX wonder bits.

PStechPaul
04-10-2016, 09:30 PM
The images appear to be the way the drills look after being used, and the ring of about 1/2 the diameter seems to be where a previously drilled pilot hole caused some abrasion of the cutting edge and the relief lip behind it. The relatively fast spiral essentially gives the cutting edge a large degree of "rake" which can cause the drill to grab. For thin material, I like Unibits or step drills. They don't seem to grab at all.

wierdscience
04-10-2016, 09:31 PM
Increasing Milwaukee=junk,I am not surprised.

adatesman
04-10-2016, 09:44 PM
FWIW, I have some Craftsman branded ones with a point like that that are marked MADE IN USA on the shank. I seem to recall them working surprisingly well, and seeing how abused the 1/4" one is (only one I can find at the moment, and unsure if I had a set or even how I ended up with them in the first place), I clearly preferred it over any of my others in that size. Also, it was regular/round shank for a normal drill chuck, not whatever you call the hex thing used on an impact driver.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2je9002.jpg

PStechPaul
04-10-2016, 10:50 PM
That image pretty clearly shows an apparently intentional concentric groove that might act as a chip breaker, but I found other chip breaker drills that are ground differently.

http://www.somta.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oil-Tube-Chipbreaker.gif http://www.somta.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/chipbreaker.gif

http://www.somta.co.za/index.php/application-products/mts-chipbreaker-drills/#.VwsOs3rLweA

http://www.bctus.com/chip-break-drills.php

Here is a review of the "red helix" drill bit design:

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/accessories/milwaukee-red-helix-drill-bits/18480/

http://cdn.protoolreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Milwaukee-Titanium-Red-Helix-Twist-Bits-650x379.jpg

RancherBill
04-10-2016, 11:53 PM
I watched a Milwaukee promo and they are wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1uzD5dgx9M
They even do a demo to show they are wonderful.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRhsDG1dT2A

adatesman
04-11-2016, 12:03 AM
That image pretty clearly shows an apparently intentional concentric groove that might act as a chip breaker, but I found other chip breaker drills that are ground differently.

http://www.somta.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oil-Tube-Chipbreaker.gif

Not sure what that "chipbreaker on the trailing edge of the flute" is suppose to do given that I've never seen a drill really wear there, but I'm not up on the bleeding edge of hole drilling. But the leading edge is smooth, which means a single chip. Unlike the stepped/multi-diameter thing in the grind shown in the OP. Also, if you look at the URL (or notice the holes in the flutes), that's a through-coolant drill.

FWIW and IMO, this stepped/multi-diameter thing isn't complete nonsense... I've found them to start easier and cut acceptably. But I've also not checked the resulting holes for placement or diameter, as the work I've used them on didn't require it.

JoeLee
04-11-2016, 12:25 AM
I watched a Milwaukee promo and they are wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1uzD5dgx9M
They even do a demo to show they are wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRhsDG1dT2A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?<br /> [URL=&quot;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRhsDG1dT2A) Everything works well in a promo.

JL.............

PStechPaul
04-11-2016, 01:11 AM
The reviews on Home Depot are pretty good:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-Titanium-Shockwave-Drill-Bit-Kit-23-Piece-48-89-4631/205879024

Bosch might be even better:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-TI21-Titanium-Drill-Set-21-Piece-TI21/203530335

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Cobalt-Drill-Set-18-Piece-CO18/203530148

Puckdropper
04-11-2016, 01:45 AM
Just a thought... Have you tried them on a 2x4? Sounds like the aggressive cut may work very well in wood.

plunger
04-11-2016, 03:05 AM
Looks like the first time you sharpen them you will have lost all the benifits they claim.Looks like a diy drill to me.

Mcostello
04-11-2016, 10:11 PM
Maybe the faster spiral is to get the coolant out of the hole faster!

J Tiers
04-11-2016, 10:17 PM
The reviews on Home Depot are pretty good:
...

A review is a lot better when it is by someone who would actually know the difference. :D

Fasttrack
04-12-2016, 10:14 AM
I just recently went through several hundred dollars of those Milwaukee bits on a big job here at work. Lots of broken bits but they cut pretty fast. They are great for quick and dirty jobs where you have to drill through standard building materials. They work well in impact or cordless drills. I consider them to be "construction" drills - great for on the jobsite HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc. work.

I do not keep them in my drill dispenser for use in the machine shop. I'm not sure why exactly, I just don't like them as well as standard bits. They feel like a marketing gimmick and they just don't fit the aesthetic of my shop ;) :D

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-12-2016, 03:05 PM
Not sure what that "chipbreaker on the trailing edge of the flute" is suppose to do given that I've never seen a drill really wear there, but I'm not up on the bleeding edge of hole drilling. But the leading edge is smooth, which means a single chip. Unlike the stepped/multi-diameter thing in the grind shown in the OP. Also, if you look at the URL (or notice the holes in the flutes), that's a through-coolant drill.
It makes the flute bottom radius much more tighter, thus bending the chip more than normally and thus (in most materials) the chip breaks. But, this action requires that you actually feed the drill properly, which brings a notion that even a normal drill will make short chips if fed properly. Properly meaning not babying the speed & feed like I've everytime seen.

Other than that little addition in the flute area, there's nothing special, just a basic grind and center notching (which doesn't help it cut more easily).

adatesman
04-12-2016, 03:59 PM
It makes the flute bottom radius much more tighter, thus bending the chip more than normally and thus (in most materials) the chip breaks. But, this action requires that you actually feed the drill properly, which brings a notion that even a normal drill will make short chips if fed properly. Properly meaning not babying the speed & feed like I've everytime seen.


In theory, yes. But reality is I've never noticed wear on the trailing edge, even when pushed hard with large 50 taper mills. Hence me doubting that ridge will actually do anything besides add a couple horsepower. ;)

Rustybolt
04-12-2016, 08:38 PM
You mean split point? Yeah. I use them all the time and if they don't come with a split point I put one on it.

adatesman
04-12-2016, 08:45 PM
You mean split point? Yeah. I use them all the time and if they don't come with a split point I put one on it.

No, not split point. This goofy groove in the point thing:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2je9002.jpg

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-12-2016, 11:48 PM
In theory, yes. But reality is I've never noticed wear on the trailing edge, even when pushed hard with large 50 taper mills. Hence me doubting that ridge will actually do anything besides add a couple horsepower. ;)
We'vve got some of those style drills at work and I could test it out how it compares to a "normal" same size drill. The thing is that a chip doesn't rub on that trailing edge (or in this case the leading edge from the chips perspective), it just curls the way the flute goes. And if a flute has an obstruction in it (like the protrusion talked here), it will curl the chip harder in an effort to break it more efficiently. It doesn't need more power (sure it is measurable, but bending a chip a little more hardly counts as a power hog).

becksmachine
04-13-2016, 03:25 AM
I think it is extremely difficult to do a meaningful comparison of these bits by comparing user experiences when used in a hand held drill motor.

The list of variables is lengthy, skill and experience being only 2 of possibly dozens of significant variables.

I would question the assessment of "being too aggressive". I don't think I have ever had a problem with a 3/8" twist drill bit being "too easy" to push through a piece of mild steel.

As for "grabbing", and twisting the drill motor out of your hands, well that is just part of the game. Especially when breaking through, just about any twist drill is going to try to do that. If it is doing that before the point breaks through, this is almost surely an alignment problem. This can be accentuated by the bit being new and still having sharp leading edges on the lands.

Ask yourself this question, or better yet, perform this little test yourself. Take a piece of comparable material and try to see if you can achieve acceptable results using these bits in a drill press or milling machine. If you can, the poor results obtained when used in a hand held drill motor are entirely due to operator error and not attributable to inferior quality tools.

Not trying to sound arrogant here, just trying to demonstrate the extraordinary difficulty of trying to achieve the proper conditions for efficient use of twist drills when said bits are used in a hand held drill motor. Efficiency in this context is a very relative term. If it takes 2 bits to achieve one hole in a workpiece that would otherwise require two days of dis-assembly and re-assembly to drill the hole in a different fashion, it would still be considered a great saving in time and effort.

Dave

plunger
04-13-2016, 07:07 AM
am I correct in saying all benifits if any are lost on first regrind.?

PStechPaul
04-13-2016, 07:31 AM
Probably only the benefits of the TiN coating, and even that will still be helpful on the flutes and lands to keep chips from sticking. You should be able to grind that chip-breaker feature, at least on larger drills.

JoeLee
04-13-2016, 08:11 AM
I just recently went through several hundred dollars of those Milwaukee bits on a big job here at work. Lots of broken bits but they cut pretty fast. They are great for quick and dirty jobs where you have to drill through standard building materials. They work well in impact or cordless drills. I consider them to be "construction" drills - great for on the jobsite HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc. work.

I do not keep them in my drill dispenser for use in the machine shop. I'm not sure why exactly, I just don't like them as well as standard bits. They feel like a marketing gimmick and they just don't fit the aesthetic of my shop ;) :D Yea, they cut pretty fast for the first hole and after the first grab and twist that's it, chipped cutting edges and or bent shank. I can see where you could go through a few hundred dollars worth of them if you use one frill per hole, and that's about what it amounts to.

The groove that somewhat resembles a coolant hole is actually I believe supposed to be a pilot point. So I'm guessing that the brilliant marketing engineer came up with the idea that you can pilot a hole and drill it to size all in one shot. It's not a chip breaker groove, that's for sure because on the first hole I drilled with any of these I got heave continuous spirals. The drill started to cut chips after the first hole, then it was fine splinter like chips, fine filings and then squealing and smoke.
I never ran into this with a conventional drill point.

JL................

Rustybolt
04-13-2016, 08:37 AM
No, not split point. This goofy groove in the point thing:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2je9002.jpg

Ah. Nope. They any good?