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Black Forest
05-24-2016, 11:37 AM
What material could I use to line a band brake that is used for parking only? The band is around one foot in diameter when mounted. It is 28mm wide. This is for a small tractor.

JCHannum
05-24-2016, 11:55 AM
Flexible brake band material is available from many sources. I recently purchased some from McMaster Carr. McM is not handy in Germany, but there are sure to be similar sources.

EddyCurr
05-24-2016, 12:19 PM
How big is your waist?

A 12" diameter gives a circumference close to 38". By the time some of us removed the
buckle at one end and the notched portion at the other end of a man's leather waist belt,
we'd have something suitable in hand for that application of yours.

.

Black_Moons
05-24-2016, 12:30 PM
How big is your waist?

A 12" diameter gives a circumference close to 38". By the time some of us removed the
buckle at one end and the notched portion at the other end of a man's leather waist belt,
we'd have something suitable in hand for that application of yours.


Hey! My waist resembles that remark! *shakes fist*

radkins
05-24-2016, 12:34 PM
How big is your waist?

A 12" diameter gives a circumference close to 38". By the time some of us removed the
buckle at one end and the notched portion at the other end of a man's leather waist belt,
we'd have something suitable in hand for that application of yours.


I did that about 15 years ago on a small hydrostatic drive tractor where the brake band served only as a parking brake, over the years it has actually served as a stopping brake many times but then from the size of the brake he describes I am sure his tractor is a heck of a lot heavier than mine. Although it might sound like a backwards thing to do when the leather glazed over and was dried out I wiped it in a light oil and diesel mixture to soften it and the darn thing holds better than it did dry!

CCWKen
05-24-2016, 12:47 PM
Ford Model Ts used wood or woven cotton bands in the transmission. (Primary brake drum inside.) The parking brake was metal-to-metal on the rear axle brake drums. Modern replacements now include Kevlar for the transmission bands and friction brake lining for the rear drums. Since it's a parking brake, just about any material could be used. You didn't mention if the lining was riveted or glued to the band.

boslab
05-24-2016, 01:01 PM
Signode steel banding?
Mark

Black Forest
05-24-2016, 01:50 PM
Signode steel banding?
Mark

Hey Mark, that sounds like I would have to go to a sex shop to get some of that material! :cool:

HWooldridge
05-24-2016, 01:55 PM
Leather works well if it is subject to being contaminated with oil or grease. I tried commercial brake liner on a Beaudry power hammer brake and it would slip once any lube got on it. I replaced it with a piece of saddle leather and that solved the problem quite handily since leather will grip even when wet.

Black Forest
05-24-2016, 02:15 PM
Leather is the easiest for me. I have whole sides of Herman Oak leather and all the tools to work it.

Now what steel should I use for the actual bands? One side has only the two ends of the band and the other the band is rusted in half.

wierdscience
05-24-2016, 02:20 PM
The bands,I would look at steel banding material or failing that some thin stainless.

EddyCurr
05-24-2016, 02:34 PM
Signode steel banding?
Mark
The bands,I would look at steel banding material or failing that some thin stainless.Also known as pallet strapping.

Signode is a significant producer.

Comes in a variety of widths and thicknesses. You'll want to visit the
loading dock areas of companies that ship objects on pallets secured
with banding strap and ask nicely for some lengths.

If you get it fresh, there is often perfectly good used strapping being
tossed into the scrap bins at sites that receive objects on pallets.

.

boslab
05-24-2016, 03:55 PM
That's the stuff, very handy stuff, I always keep some for odd brackets, exhaust straps, even repaired a band brake on a 1000 ton gantry that was stuck on a ladle cooking the ropes, I did not fancy a rope change, not 108 falls of 2" cable at 2 in the morning
It's hard to drill but a Whitney punch goes through nice, I used solid rivets, snap and set too, never thought learning that would be handy
Mark

Illinoyance
05-24-2016, 05:05 PM
You asked about lining so I assume you already have the steel band. I suggest looking for a repair shop that does truck brakes. They probably stock lining material and would be capable of riveting the lining to the band.

PStechPaul
05-27-2016, 05:01 PM
I found a band brake for a scooter that might work for a small tractor:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/bb-60/band-brake-60mm-drum/1.html

http://allelcdn.upshotcommerce.com//mas_assets/cache/image/1/7/b/0/480x480-6064.Jpg

Not bad for $4.50. It might also work well for a spindle brake on a lathe or milling machine.

vpt
05-28-2016, 08:06 AM
Don't some of them use a felt like material?

I also like the idea of leather.

boslab
05-28-2016, 08:49 AM
I do like the spindle brake idea, think a lot of them are Kevlar these days, so I'm told but I've no expirience, the ones on cranes were asbestos stuff, warning stickers all over the housing and box
Mark

Paul Alciatore
05-28-2016, 03:52 PM
I would ask just how would you enforce that "as a parking brake only" thing. I would use real brake lining material.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=12lzo14




I did that about 15 years ago on a small hydrostatic drive tractor where the brake band served only as a parking brake, over the years it has actually served as a stopping brake many times but then from the size of the brake he describes I am sure his tractor is a heck of a lot heavier than mine. Although it might sound like a backwards thing to do when the leather glazed over and was dried out I wiped it in a light oil and diesel mixture to soften it and the darn thing holds better than it did dry!

flylo
05-28-2016, 04:37 PM
Get the heavier banding 3/4"x .065 if I remember right. a bunk uf lumber will have 2 or 3 bands about 10' long so any lumberyard will gladly give you all you want as they either chip it or bin it.

old mart
05-28-2016, 05:36 PM
What about some of that rubber impregnated drive belting that comes in a range of widths, plenty on eBay. As for the band itself, 1.5mm to 2mm thick stainless steel, one side shot blasted to provide a key to glue the friction material on. The ends of the band would require clamping tightly between thick anchor plates.

Black_Moons
05-28-2016, 06:19 PM
I found a band brake for a scooter that might work for a small tractor:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/bb-60/band-brake-60mm-drum/1.html

http://allelcdn.upshotcommerce.com//mas_assets/cache/image/1/7/b/0/480x480-6064.Jpg

Not bad for $4.50. It might also work well for a spindle brake on a lathe or milling machine.

Yea, Except a tractor is a ****load heavier then a scooter.

You might think "Yea but scooters stop so quickly!", Well yes, high end ones with disk brakes or properly adjusted rear drum brakes with a foot pedal so you can hit them with 100lbs+ of force, sure.

The scooters that use cheap band brakes on the rear?... Not so much. And many of them employ much better drum brakes on the front yet they still suck ass at stopping.

Plus, your front wheel is about 70%+ of your stopping force, hence why they often use such poor brakes on the rear, they suffice when you have a good front brake.

brian Rupnow
05-28-2016, 06:21 PM
Surely you have antique car enthusiasts in Germany. In North America you can still buy brake lining material for restoration of very old automobiles.---Brian

davidh
05-29-2016, 08:55 AM
google these. . . .


Heavy Duty Brake Linings | MarathonBrake.com

antique tractor brake lining

radkins
05-29-2016, 09:52 AM
I would ask just how would you enforce that "as a parking brake only" thing. I would use real brake lining material.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=12lzo14

It's hydrostatic drive and the only time the brake has been necessary while moving was when the the valve was released to allow the drive motor to freewheel, I have done that a few times when pushing it for one reason or the other.

radkins
05-29-2016, 10:00 AM
I found a band brake for a scooter that might work for a small tractor:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/bb-60/band-brake-60mm-drum/1.html

http://allelcdn.upshotcommerce.com//mas_assets/cache/image/1/7/b/0/480x480-6064.Jpg

Not bad for $4.50. It might also work well for a spindle brake on a lathe or milling machine.

Did you look at the size of that tiny scooter brake, 60 MM diameter drum??? My tractor is just barely bigger than a lawn tractor, in fact it would make a decent lawn tractor, although a bit heavy, if it had the right wheels and the brake drum on it is 6 inches in diameter. I think the OP said his drum is is about a foot in diameter!!!!!

boslab
05-29-2016, 12:06 PM
Had stuff for an excavator off these
http://www.frictiontechnology.co.uk/
They do sheet friction material and rivets if I remember
Mark

Mike Burdick
05-29-2016, 12:44 PM
What material could I use to line a band brake that is used for parking only? The band is around one foot in diameter when mounted. It is 28mm wide. This is for a small tractor.

Maybe this company will have what's needed ...

http://www.frictiontechnology.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d27.html

They also make brake bands.


EDIT: Oh, sorry! Looks like Boslab already posted about this site.

Black_Moons
05-29-2016, 01:31 PM
Did you look at the size of that tiny scooter brake, 60 MM diameter drum??? My tractor is just barely bigger than a lawn tractor, in fact it would make a decent lawn tractor, although a bit heavy, if it had the right wheels and the brake drum on it is 6 inches in diameter. I think the OP said his drum is is about a foot in diameter!!!!!

Yea exactly. The reason you don't see band brakes anymore is because they SUCK MAJOR ASS and have to be *HUGE* just to provide minimally adequate braking.

Those cheap electric scooters don't even stop very fast with them. I think on them the rear band brake is more just so they can tell regulators 'yes it has front and back brakes'

Tundra Twin Track
05-29-2016, 03:23 PM
Yea exactly. The reason you don't see band brakes anymore is because they SUCK MAJOR ASS and have to be *HUGE* just to provide minimally adequate braking.

Those cheap electric scooters don't even stop very fast with them. I think on them the rear band brake is more just so they can tell regulators 'yes it has front and back brakes'

A hyd snowmobile brake works real well and can usually get them for next to nothing off salvage machine!
http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/tundratwintrack/IMG_0015_zps10b549a8.jpg (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/tundratwintrack/media/IMG_0015_zps10b549a8.jpg.html)http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/tundratwintrack/IMG_0020_zpsf1661a73.jpg (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/tundratwintrack/media/IMG_0020_zpsf1661a73.jpg.html)

Black_Moons
05-29-2016, 04:06 PM
A hyd snowmobile brake works real well and can usually get them for next to nothing off salvage machine!


Agreed, Hydraulic disk brakes are by far the best for stopping power for a given size/weight/actuation force.

He seemed to mention it was a parking brake though, Im not sure I would 100% trust hydraulics for a parking brake function. though I know some of them have a latch on the brake handle to allow it to act as a parking brake, im not sure how safe that is.

There are however mechanical disk brakes that use a cable, those would be good for a parking brake function IMO. Iv seen them on bicycles not sure about motorcycle/snowmobile sized ones.

You could also consider making your own mechanically driven brake caliper for an existing brake disk, its not really a big deal, just a cam or screw thread mechanism that pushes a spring loaded block of friction material onto the disk.

darryl
05-29-2016, 04:13 PM
You could also use an old serpentine flat belt, no steel band needed and it will have a decent friction surface.

jacampb2
06-03-2016, 09:28 PM
I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to share my experience. I was looking for a way to reline some very small brake shoes for my Clausing Colechester lathe. I was going to buy friction material from McMaster, but I saw this thread and decided to give leather a shot. A buddy of mine gave me a nice .25" thick piece of leather, I cut two strips, cleaned up my shoes and used loctite clear epoxy and far more clamps then I thought I could possibly need (6 pair of vice grips on a 6" long strip of leather). 24 hrs later the bond seems excellent. I had to work them down on a belt sander until I got the right thickness for the shoes, but once I did I got them installed and the lathe brake works again! I couldn't be happier. I don't know how long it will last, but it is better than nothing and easily redone in the future.

Good luck,
Jason

EddyCurr
06-04-2016, 12:55 AM
Jason, you write about enjoying some success with the suggestion
about using leather as a lining material early in this thread.

While your braking issue has been resolved, thanks to your handiness,
I thought you might be interested in reading about another suggestion
made by the same guy regarding a possible source for OEM replacement
shoes for a Colchester Student lathe. The suggestion appears in post #7,
you'll need to read through almost to the end to discover the OP's outcome.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/51204-Q-Broken-drum-brakes-(Colchester-Student)

.

jacampb2
06-04-2016, 05:18 AM
Thanks for that! Good read. I figured the shoes would be available somewhere for something, but I figured researching it would be a zero sum game and I could fix what I have faster. For what it's worth my machine had shoes made out of steel, not cast zamack. My machine is also a big bigger than the student, so maybe the brakes are a hair bigger-- who knows? For the moment I am more than happy with leather. Time will tell if it holds up, but I've been using the lathe for about 8 years with no brake, so I think either way I'm not out much other than time.

Thanks!
Jason

Black Forest
06-04-2016, 06:16 AM
I ended up making my own brake bands. I used 2mm thick by 35mm wide steel as the old one were these dimensions. I glued and copper riveted 5mm thick leather to the inside.

They work as planned so I will see how long they last. In the mean time I will look for brake lining material. It is not so easy here in Germany to get it as in USA. At least for me!:cool:

EddyCurr
06-04-2016, 09:42 AM
I figured the shoes would be available somewhere for something,
but I figured researching it would be a zero sum game and I could fix what I have faster.Yes. Under the circumstances, your reasoning is sound.

But. Just imagine how the circumstances might have been different
if the OP in the other thread had taken an extra moment to
publish any part numbers from whatever packaging his OEM
shoes arrived in, or perhaps returned to quizz his benefactor,
the old timer, for additional details.

Perhaps with that information at your finger tips, you might
have found the exact equivalent to an OEM replacement like
the OP did for his lathe, maybe at a price that made tiddling
at repairing the old ones uneconomic. Ditto for all the other
people out there with Colchesters in need of new shoes that
happen across the OP's thread here on HSM.

Ah, well.

Happy turning ...

.

EddyCurr
06-04-2016, 11:34 AM
I ended up making my own brake bands. I used 2mm thick
by 35mm wide steel as the old one were these dimensions.What source material did you use for the steel bands?

Case-hardened pallet strap, strips of mild steel sheared or snipped from a sheet ...

.