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1-800miner
07-13-2016, 01:10 AM
http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q727/1-800miner/dril%20press_zpshzwaxymh.jpg (http://s1356.photobucket.com/user/1-800miner/media/dril%20press_zpshzwaxymh.jpg.html)
I never posted pictures of the projects I have done because 1. I was too lazy to figure out how to post pictures and 2.Most of my work is rough around the edges, never did much care about spit and polish. Get it built and put it to work, worry about the paint later.

This is an Aurora drill press around a hundred years old. I bought it, sprayed some wd40 on it to free the sticky parts and put it to work.
I dug it out of the burnt shop today. It is the only machine that remotely survived.

I am staring this thread because I want the machine to get rebuilt and drill holes for another hundred years.
All the Babbitt has melted out, so I need a tutorial on pouring bearings.

All the moving parts are relatively free. The quill shaft and the power feed shaft are bent when the roof collapsed on them. I am hoping that they are simple keyed shafting. I can see the entire power feed shaft. It has a pinion gear pinned to the end of the shaft. So I am ok there.

I have to get the quill shaft out to see how the drill end is configured.

I had a 1 1/2h.p. motor on it and it would drill a 1 1/2" hole through inch plate without grunting.

So friends, I have a project. Tell me about Babbitt and tell me what to look for as I tear it down.
Sandblasting and painting are in order. I know you are going to tell me to paint it gray.
I am thinking red with black pin striping or black with gold pin striping.

When I am done I want to tow it in the Christmas parade. I will keep in touch.

The corrugated tin on top...part of the shop roof that didn't want to come off.

v860rich
07-13-2016, 01:17 AM
Good for you and good luck with your restoration.
You might try Keith Fenners YT channel as I seem to remember he poured a few different Babbitt bearings.

THANX RICH

BCRider
07-13-2016, 01:29 AM
That looks surprisingly like the one that Keith has.

I only recall my father pouring a babbit shaft guide for a machine. It wasn't a rotating bearing. Instead it was a hexagonal guide rod. I do recall that he sealed off the base of the casting that was to hold the bearing with what he called "elephant ****". It was a black putty that apparently doesn't melt or degrade from the temperature of the babbit. I seem to recall that it was commonly used by the old cast iron and threaded steep pipe plumbers of old.

The hex shaft was supported accurately in place and both the outer casting and the hex shaft were heated up with a propane torch so the babbit wouldn't flash freeze against the cold metal. When hot enough that it would almost melt the babbit the pour was done using an old plumber's lead melting pot to melt the babbit.

After the pour had cooled the fun of removing the hex bar began.It was driven out with a lead hammer. These days a dead blow would do the job nicely. Once out he used some sort of scraper to shave off a couple of thou off each of the 6 faces and carefully test fitted the shaft a number of times until he got it right. When it was still snug he pushed it back and forth a few times then hit the side lightly with some taps of the hammer to bump down the few high spots that were preventing smooth movement. that did the job and it worked well until the machine was sold or traded off a few years later.

It's odd that after all these years I recall that one job so clearly while lots of other stuff was just taken for granted. I guess I found it to be something new and special at the time. Hell, I don't even recall what the machine was used for. It wasn't something that I ever recall seeing running during my visits to the shop when I was a kid.

1-800miner
07-13-2016, 01:53 AM
I have helped do big bearings on ball mills and crushers.
We mixed flour, salt, and, maybe backing powder to make a doughy dam to hold the Babbitt and make the grease grooves around the shaft.
Smells like home made bread when the Babbitt hits it.
Used an acetylene torch to soot the shaft.

The upper shaft support has removable caps. that will be straight forward.
The lower shaft support is a unit. I don't know how to go about that.

I had a few pounds of Babbitt in the shop, sitting right beside a few pounds of Cerro alloy.
I imagine it all melted together, Wonder what kind of alloy it is now.

J Tiers
07-13-2016, 02:05 AM
As for general restoration.... the motor is scrap, as I assume you already know.

If the spindle itself is bent, that's a problem. It almost certainly has an MT socket. But it is more likely that just the top drive shaft to the spindle is bent. Could be keyed, could be splined. The very old small drillpress I have is keyed, so you may be in luck there.

I think it is a possible restoration. Stuff like it has been fixed after being on a sunk ship that was raised, for instance. And a lot of factory tools were restored to use after bombing and fire damage in WWII.

flylo
07-13-2016, 07:00 AM
Good for you! Lot's of youtube on it. Hear's one, in 12 minutes you'll know how to pour babbit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZh2VZbqQiI

lynnl
07-13-2016, 08:34 AM
I have a couple of questions about that babbitt video:

1) There appeared to be some voids in the middle of at least one of the halves; does that not matter much?

2) The scraping: I assumed he was scraping away flash from the pour. Then why was he repeatedly needing to test the rotation of the shaft?

vpt
07-13-2016, 08:49 AM
Nice drill press! I guess all the camel backs of that era looked nearly identical. Looks very much like the 1909 Barnes drill press I rebuilt years ago but bigger. I ended up selling it just last year to a guy that has a personal collection of lineshaft machines.

I will be watching the rebuild. I didn't have to pour babbit with mine so no help there. But I did replace the thrust bearings in the spindle of mine which I found on ebay.

http://i.imgur.com/EZdD1Ck.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HIfUAgG.jpg

flylo
07-13-2016, 09:33 AM
I have a couple of questions about that babbitt video:

1) There appeared to be some voids in the middle of at least one of the halves; does that not matter much?

2) The scraping: I assumed he was scraping away flash from the pour. Then why was he repeatedly needing to test the rotation of the shaft?

I've never done it but I'm not sure if it was voids or maybe just a different color from being colder as when done I didn't dee any voids & I think he was scraping the flash off the overflow.

Rosco-P
07-13-2016, 09:49 AM
I have a couple of questions about that babbitt video:

1) There appeared to be some voids in the middle of at least one of the halves; does that not matter much?

2) The scraping: I assumed he was scraping away flash from the pour. Then why was he repeatedly needing to test the rotation of the shaft?

Babbitt bearing are scraped-in to fit the shaft that is run in them, so you have good contact all around. A running (not the right word) fit. A groove will also be cut in to the bearing for lubrication.

1-800miner
07-13-2016, 11:48 AM
Any one have a good witches brew to soak burnt tools?
I have a stock trough around 200 gallons. I am throwing the lathe chucks, drill chucks, anything with moving parts into it.
I will let the stuff soak until I can get to them.

fixerdave
07-13-2016, 12:09 PM
Any one have a good witches brew to soak burnt tools?
I have a stock trough around 200 gallons. I am throwing the lathe chucks, drill chucks, anything with moving parts into it.
I will let the stuff soak until I can get to them.

Diesel is probably the easiest. I knew of one guy that soaked a seized mc crank (with bearings) in it for months... just kept checking it until it spun.

lynnl
07-13-2016, 01:38 PM
Babbitt bearing are scraped-in to fit the shaft that is run in them, so you have good contact all around. A running (not the right word) fit. A groove will also be cut in to the bearing for lubrication.

But in the video he poured the babbitt into the two halves of the "mould" with the shaft in place. I'd think that would give as good of a fit, and close contact, as possible.

All of the scraping was at the periphery.

J Tiers
07-13-2016, 01:53 PM
But in the video he poured the babbitt into the two halves of the "mould" with the shaft in place. I'd think that would give as good of a fit, and close contact, as possible.

All of the scraping was at the periphery.

Where the halves join, they may not join tightly, if the caps have shims between them and the base casting half, as is normal. Common to scrape a little slope on the edge so it does not present a 90 deg edge to the oil, which might remove oil from the shaft. The slope scoops in oil. Some say it might pull in dirt, but it surely does help the oil stay on the shaft.

It's possible that the pour mentioned didn't fill all the way, so there was a void. That could be what was commented on above somewhere. Some pour it with an undersize shaft in place, and bore to size, finishing with scraping. That avoids most issues with voids.

Any void may allow oil to escape, and prevent the oil wedge from building up, if it leads to the edge of the bearing. The gap where the shims go also does that, which is why some engines have the caps on a slant.

In the case of this drill press, it might be good to survey the journals and see if any are pitted from the fire. That's going to potentially affect how big the bearings are, depending on how bad the pits are (if any).

alcova
07-13-2016, 01:54 PM
I have some books that are Machinists stories from jobs they did in late 1800's to early 1900's and sometimes they got voids in the babbet and if they were small ones they would call them oil reservoirs... they would hold extra oil for running

nc5a
07-13-2016, 02:11 PM
Any one have a good witches brew to soak burnt tools?
I have a stock trough around 200 gallons. I am throwing the lathe chucks, drill chucks, anything with moving parts into it.
I will let the stuff soak until I can get to them.

miner,

Instead of soaking what you think is savable in a 200 gallon trough, (I see big bucks for 200 gallons of kind of cleaner). Try spraying (actually soaking) the items down with a good quality rust preventative like Kroil, mouse milk, blaster etc, then wrap/seal each item in a heavy duty plastic wrap (Suranwrap) or similar. For the larger items sealing in a garbage bag would work. Also, you might try soaking some items in heavy duty oven cleaner and then placing them in a plastic garbage bag. You wouldn't want the stuff to soak in oven cleaner for more than a couple days before cleaning it so that may not be a workable option timewise.

Good luck

Ron

1-800miner
07-13-2016, 03:03 PM
Garbage bags are an idea. Right now I am so busy with basic cleanup and rebuilding that tool reconditioning is a back burner project.
I have some used engine oil that I am pouring on tools for now. It doesn't help clean them but at least it prevents further damage.

Fasttrack
07-13-2016, 04:59 PM
Garbage bags are an idea. Right now I am so busy with basic cleanup and rebuilding that tool reconditioning is a back burner project.
I have some used engine oil that I am pouring on tools for now. It doesn't help clean them but at least it prevents further damage.

When you get closer to restoring tools, you can use Muriatic acid (available at hardware stores) for pickling. It will remove scale and carbon/soot deposits. Just be careful because it is also corrosive and will damage steel parts if left sitting in the solution too long.

When I had to braze some cast iron exhaust manifolds that had large amounts of soot and carbon built up on them, I soaked them in muriatic acid for an hour, brushed it down, rinsed extremely well and then dipped in a solution of washing soda and water to prevent rust and make sure it was completely neutralized.

In addition to the typical safety disclaimers, keep these in mind:
1) don't mix the acid and the washing soda mixture - things will get exciting in the worst kind of way
2) a light brushing before and after pickling is very helpful but the bristles of the brush can throw very small drops of acid at high velocity - be mindful of your eyes, skin and surrounding area


Edit:
I've also heard that molasses actually works quite well at derusting and possibly descaling steel parts. I've been told it's slow as ... well ... molasses but if you have a 200 gallon tank and want to dump everything into it, you can get molasses in large quantities and cheap from a local feed supply store. Just make sure you don't get the "unsulphured" or "sulfur-free" variety.

J Tiers
07-13-2016, 05:03 PM
Yes. Stabilize first. Although, for a while at least it seems as if you might not need to worry much about humidity and rust.

Later, when you get to it, find some phosphoric acid, Jasco prep, concrete cleaner, whatever has it in. Do tools in small batches, whatever you can handle in a half hour. Dilute most solutions about 2:1, and in goes a bunch. In 15 min, start pulling out tools and checking. If heavy rust, wire brush and put back for 15 more. If clean, dip a couple more minutes and put out to dry as-is. Should not rust, if it's dry out , and you don't rub off the coating too much. Or you can use a shop towel or other dead towel on them. Towels are cheaper than replacing tools.

Never done fire damage tools, but have done rather rusty tools. works well. A gallon of acid will do a lot of tools for maybe 10 bucks.

If you did oil the tools, obviously wash off the oil first.

v860rich
07-13-2016, 06:09 PM
I know a auto repair guy that had his shop burn and he filled a cement mixer with sand and tumbled his hand tools.
Some of them lost their temper and eventually broke but he had Snap On stuff and when they broke they gave him new ones. I don't know if any Snap On dealer would do that today but back then things were different and places stood behind their guarantee.
I don't know if you want to place chucks or things like that in a sand tumbler!!!

THANX RICH

vpt
07-13-2016, 08:27 PM
I've always heard diesel and trans fluid is a great "make it move again" mix.

Many have good results with evaporust, I have some and tried it and it worked ok for me.

SpoonerandForker
07-13-2016, 10:23 PM
Sandblasting and painting are in order. I know you are going to tell me to paint it gray.
I am thinking red with black pin striping or black with gold pin striping.


Not a big fan of democracy because half of the people voting are always below average, but if I did vote, count me in the pinstripe camp. Once had a black 1890's floor safe with gold pin striping curlicues. Looked beautiful and period appropriate. Gray looks industrial 1930-1960ish. This machine comes from a time when true craftsmen like yourself took pride in what they built.

phubbman
07-15-2016, 12:43 PM
With that many rusty parts / pieces, you might consider setting yourself up an electrolysis bath. You'd need a non-conductive container (I use buckets, trash cans, or make a "trough" with scrap wood and plastic sheeting for big parts), a DC power source (I use a car battery charger), Arm and Hammer "Washing Soda" (I get it from the local grocery store), and some scrap steel to use for sacrificial anodes. There's nothing toxic, it's cheap, and very effective. Just make sure you run the baths outside or somewhere with good ventilation - the process offgasses hydrogen, which can go "boom" if it builds up in high concentrations.

I've restored a lot of old tools and machinery using electrolysis to neutralize and remove rust. It reverses the electrolytic process that creates the rust to begin with. A quick google will get you basics on how to do it, but I can tell you it's very effective and very easy.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.

paulh

phubbman
07-15-2016, 12:55 PM
Oh, and for info on pouring babbit, you might check out www.owwm.org and run a quick search on the "old woodworking machines" forum for a lot of great information. It's a very helpful group over there

Dlane
07-15-2016, 01:59 PM
Was just looking thru Craig's list , someone is selling Babbitt pouring tools in SF Bay Area

softtail
07-15-2016, 11:57 PM
Not a big fan of democracy because half of the people voting are always below average, but if I did vote, count me in the pinstripe camp. Once had a black 1890's floor safe with gold pin striping curlicues. Looked beautiful and period appropriate. Gray looks industrial 1930-1960ish. This machine comes from a time when true craftsmen like yourself took pride in what they built.

Black enamel brushed on with a few hairs left in would be 100% correct, and then some stripes. Gold, robin's egg blue, green....

http://www.beugler.com/

BCRider
07-16-2016, 02:00 AM
Sandblasting and painting are in order. I know you are going to tell me to paint it gray.
I am thinking red with black pin striping or black with gold pin striping.

For a classic drill press of this sort I'd say that something along that line would be entirely appropriate. Of course I also will understand if you don't get around to it anytime soon....

Dark "British Racing Green" and gold looks particularly nice together if I may be so bold.

1-800miner
07-16-2016, 08:11 AM
Not a big fan of democracy because half of the people voting are always below average, but if I did vote, count me in the pinstripe camp. Once had a black 1890's floor safe with gold pin striping curlicues. Looked beautiful and period appropriate. Gray looks industrial 1930-1960ish. This machine comes from a time when true craftsmen like yourself took pride in what they built.

The other day a fireman said I am a wise man. I did a double take. First time in my life I have been called that! Now I am being accused of being a true craftsman. I have to show this to the wife....maybe she will see the light.