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boslab
07-31-2016, 02:03 AM
This guy has had his balls replaced with adamantium, scary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36935087
Mark

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 02:12 AM
YeeHaa!!!!

jacampb2
07-31-2016, 03:46 AM
Article ends with him hugging his wife and young son... Blows my mind that someone would take that kind of a risk while his wife and kids look on-- and for what? Notoriety? A world record? I'm sure the world records will be great consolation to his child growing up without a dad and his wife without a husband.

Just seems ludicrous to me, but probably my hobbies seem crazy to some people too.

Later,
Jason

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 04:24 AM
... Blows my mind that someone would take that kind of a risk while his wife and kids look on-- and for what? Notoriety? A world record?

No, he did it for himself. I understand completely, Notoriety and World Record are irrelevant by products, he HAD to do it. Climb Mt. Everest, marry your wife, walk on the Moon, find the Higgs Boson, lots of wonderful things are not strictly rational pursuits. If you are lucky you find a few things that fully engage your life, and if you are Very lucky you don't end up like Romeo and Juliet or bugs on the windshield.

polaraligned
07-31-2016, 05:46 AM
Article ends with him hugging his wife and young son... Blows my mind that someone would take that kind of a risk while his wife and kids look on-- and for what? Notoriety? A world record? I'm sure the world records will be great consolation to his child growing up without a dad and his wife without a husband.

Just seems ludicrous to me, but probably my hobbies seem crazy to some people too.

Later,
Jason

Agreed.

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 06:30 AM
By the way, marrying your wife and potentially raising children probably involves faith that you can triumph over many more unknowns, some of them potentially lethal, than jumping out of a plane with no parachute, especially after two years of extensive planning and testing for the jump.

Yikes! I must admit that what I just wrote, (...jumping out of a plane with no parachute...) does sound a bit nutty even coming from me, but what a ride...

bborr01
07-31-2016, 08:18 AM
Article ends with him hugging his wife and young son... Blows my mind that someone would take that kind of a risk while his wife and kids look on-- and for what? Notoriety? A world record? I'm sure the world records will be great consolation to his child growing up without a dad and his wife without a husband.

Just seems ludicrous to me, but probably my hobbies seem crazy to some people too.

Later,
Jason

My thoughts exactly.

Brian

Mcgyver
07-31-2016, 08:35 AM
hey, what could do wrong? :D

I agree with Jason. The difference being when a father that's very selfish to take those risks no matter how much the inner nut thinks it has to - you have dependents.

A.K. Boomer
07-31-2016, 08:58 AM
oh sure but entire governments can make life and death decisions on a false whim and send young men and women by the thousands who are in their prime to their deaths who also happen to have a wife/hubby and children at home and most are ok with that... not to mention making original situations far worse so that it's an ongoing thing in one form or another, perspective

fact is - is the guy's good - hit the center of his target - pulls it off no problemo and yet everybody still want's to say it was not his decision to do so --- probably even had one heck of a life insurance policy to boot,
other fact is - is it's not your call, it's his and his families as it should be - only real obligation I seem to recall in the vows he took was "in sickness and in health - till death do us part" and either way I think he pretty much had that covered, nowhere in there has anything to do with it being mandatory that you have to let your nutsac shrivel up and turn into a marshmallow...:p

More perspective; some married guys with children don't even make it to this guys age cuz they made a habit out of eating two bags of pork rinds everyday and never leaving their sofa, but no real ridicule for them --- all's you really get from people is "geeze such a shame that Hank went so early"

Doozer
07-31-2016, 09:12 AM
He is clearly not a man of science.

-Doozer

BigBoy1
07-31-2016, 09:27 AM
How much do you want to bet that this guy has "invented" a new sport? Soon we will have all kinds of businesses set up offering the "thrill of a life time" and idiots flocking to do it. As soon as several people starting missing the net, the Gov't. will step in and set up all kinds of rules and regulations. Just what we need, more Gov't. oversight create by people doing idiotic things.

ikdor
07-31-2016, 10:23 AM
My first thoughts were as well with his wife and kid. You have to be a father though to really understand this, something changes inside you when you have kids. I don't expect people without kids to understand.
He's entitled to do as he pleases, I just feel sad for his wife, as I do for the wifes of active duty soldiers.

I disagree though on the idea that endangering your life when you're a father proves you have balls. It's easy to endanger yourself, it takes balls to own up to your responsibilities.

Igor

Bob Fisher
07-31-2016, 10:30 AM
He is clearly not a man of science.

-Doozer
Ther is clear evidence of science involved. The height of the net, stretch characteristic, his weight, speed, etc. whether he did it or someone else did. No way would I or he, for that matter, attempt it without some assurance of pulling it off. His stopping distance is particularly important to avoid lethal "g" levels. Bob.

loose nut
07-31-2016, 10:30 AM
the part they don't show is the net is 5 miles square.:D

A.K. Boomer
07-31-2016, 10:55 AM
My first thoughts were as well with his wife and kid. You have to be a father though to really understand this, something changes inside you when you have kids. I don't expect people without kids to understand.
He's entitled to do as he pleases, I just feel sad for his wife, as I do for the wifes of active duty soldiers.

I disagree though on the idea that endangering your life when you're a father proves you have balls. It's easy to endanger yourself, it takes balls to own up to your responsibilities.

Igor

Igor that really is well said - and by far it's too extreme for me but also maybe just seems that way due to me not understanding how accurate someone can be if their good --- or not, so I don't know where to draw the line,

in my neck of the woods the worlds highest suspension bridge is just 8 miles away, it attracts all kinds of crazy daredevil stunts from people who come from all over the world - a few years back in the X-games some guy who had a glider suit on was supposed to fly just over in front of a crowd of people - he fell short and hit the top rail - left his legs on the bridge and dies instantly - I seen the vid and I do not like to watch that stuff, also heard the noise and it stuck with me,

Same thing with the georgian bobsleder in the winter olympics awhile back on tryout's with an extremely flawed track who went over the wall and hit the steel beam - never forget that sound, it's horrid when someone dies doing stuff like this,

but we cannot forget the alternative --- sure it would be much safer if everyone just behaved themselves and just stayed home - but what a boring existence that would be - and maybe not as safe as we would all like to believe simply for the fact that we are all designed to test ourselves - to use our skills and judgement to try and achieve things and yes even somewhat reckless things due to video games just not cutting it...
there is another side to all of this - and it's called death in complacency --- happens all the time - get right down to it really just as tragic too...

Paul Alciatore
07-31-2016, 11:19 AM
Agreed.

And, there is NO reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Parachute or none, NO reason.




My first thoughts were as well with his wife and kid. You have to be a father though to really understand this, something changes inside you when you have kids. I don't expect people without kids to understand.
He's entitled to do as he pleases, I just feel sad for his wife, as I do for the wifes of active duty soldiers.

I disagree though on the idea that endangering your life when you're a father proves you have balls. It's easy to endanger yourself, it takes balls to own up to your responsibilities.

Igor

boslab
07-31-2016, 11:48 AM
Well it does prove the concept of tall building escape I suppose,
Mark

RB211
07-31-2016, 11:55 AM
He wouldn't do it if the science and math didn't add up to a high level of success. Still though, I am a pilot and I will not go up in small piston powered general aviation aircraft anymore for the sake of my family.

A.K. Boomer
07-31-2016, 11:56 AM
i would at least want some springy helium clouds to bounce off of on the way down and scrub a little speed before hitting the net,,, you know kinda like super Mario Bros. does --- then you could count me in :p

andywander
07-31-2016, 12:12 PM
This guy has had his balls replaced with adamantium, scary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36935087
Mark

His balls, or his brain....?

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 12:15 PM
Agreed.

And, there is NO reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Parachute or none, NO reason.

The planes I jumped out of were DEFINATELY NOT perfectly good. They were old worn out wrecks.:cool::cool::cool::cool:

For those who think only a father can understand responsibility, perhaps only a jumper understands how much control you really have in freefall. This man had logged 18,000 jumps and trained Navy Seals in jump safety. He was no random nut job.

flylo
07-31-2016, 12:28 PM
120 is when your in a normal arch, you can put your arms at your sides & "track" at well over 200 mph. When you learn by accelerated free fall you jump by yourself with 2 jump masters out the door after you in case you screw up they can track to you latch on & save your *ss. I took my young sons many times & myself & both boys could squeeze into a prewar Taylorcraft & fly to breakfast at Wayland or Coldwater. I believe you can ugly yourself up but when your numbers up, it's up. That belief has come in handy many times. I've always been an adrenaline junkie & done a lot of fun things but skydiving was hands down the very best. Everyone of you should try it & you'll agree. BTW I saw a guy bounce when he had a streamer & the reserve didn't cut it away & he lived. Didn't even braek a bone. Left a pretty good indention so it proved my belief. If you don't stare death in the face once in a while you're not living. Live a little while you still can.

Mcgyver
07-31-2016, 12:30 PM
AK, do you have kids? If not I think that might go a long way toward explaining the different positions. When you have them, things change, or they should. All of a sudden being a man often means not doing stuff you might want to do because you have a greater responsibility than you own life and limb. (not that I buy 'living' only comes through extremely risk taking....if I had to put it into line, living is self actualization and positive involvement with other people)

There is a very interesting view on this sort of risk taking, the adrenaline rush thing. Many employers watch for it. The theory goes like this, loving the adrenaline rush is a learned behaviour, sort of addiction to your own body's chemical reaction. The idea is if your kids go to an amusement part once a year, no biggy, but if they go 4 times a week in the summer, they may end up conditioned in this manner.

Where the psychology gets a little messed up and why employers take interest is that it is strong positive reinforcement of bad or reckless decision making. Now, maybe a roller coaster or a drop type ride is not necessarily bad decision making ....but it is physiologically in that the natural fears that are saying get me the F out of here are suppressed and you do it anyway.

So the theory is a pattern of being an adrenaline junky carries over into other decision making and the results are not good with a brain that has learn to expect good things from suppress fears of reckless behaviour. I think its interesting, how extreme the effect is I'm sure. I doubt its an overarching governor behaviour, otoh i don't think its 0 or 1% either. One of my guys was a base jumper and professional jumper but has given it up now with two young kids....I have not seen concerning behaviour in him.....maybe that he was able to give it up says he was able to manage it?

or perhaps its just like booze, french fries and ice cream....its ok in moderation. :)

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 12:34 PM
If you don't stare death in the face once in a while you're not living. Live a little while you still can.


AMEN flylo!

P.S. Perhaps he is teaching us all to manage our fear, use science to control our destiny, and be safe without accepting other people's fear born from their less complete knowledge of a given situation.

A.K. Boomer
07-31-2016, 01:09 PM
AK, do you have kids? If not I think that might go a long way toward explaining the different positions. When you have them, things change, or they should. All of a sudden being a man often means not doing stuff you might want to do because you have a greater responsibility than you own life and limb. (not that I buy 'living' only comes through extremely risk taking....if I had to put it into line, living is self actualization and positive involvement with other people)

There is a very interesting view on this sort of risk taking, the adrenaline rush thing. Many employers watch for it. The theory goes like this, loving the adrenaline rush is a learned behaviour, sort of addiction to your own body's chemical reaction. The idea is if your kids go to an amusement part once a year, no biggy, but if they go 4 times a week in the summer, they may end up conditioned in this manner.

Where the psychology gets a little messed up and why employers take interest is that it is strong positive reinforcement of bad or reckless decision making. Now, maybe a roller coaster or a drop type ride is not necessarily bad decision making ....but it is physiologically in that the natural fears that are saying get me the F out of here are suppressed and you do it anyway.

So the theory is a pattern of being an adrenaline junky carries over into other decision making and the results are not good with a brain that has learn to expect good things from suppress fears of reckless behaviour. I think its interesting, how extreme the effect is I'm sure. I doubt its an overarching governor behaviour, otoh i don't think its 0 or 1% either. One of my guys was a base jumper and professional jumper but has given it up now with two young kids....I have not seen concerning behaviour in him.....maybe that he was able to give it up says he was able to manage it?

or perhaps its just like booze, french fries and ice cream....its ok in moderation. :)

Point taken - but too me I do not think its as simple as turning off a switch --- I believe its an innate hardwiring in most of all of us - and some may very well have learned to suppress it (only for it to most likely manifest itself into some other behavior most likely harder to "diagnose")
but others keep it closer within r reach, some like me actually seeing extreme value in it, like it or not it generally involves a honing of certain skills connected to the laws of physics and the way we interact with them which can prove to be invaluable in all kinds of other situations that you may never ask for in the future but that may very well come your way,

point being is I would think it a tragedy and maybe even somewhat irresponsible for a father not to be able to save his offspring in certain situations for example take flooding or even the family boat getting caught in a mild little storm and capsizing --- I bring this up because of my white water kayak experience and how i feel im a little more in tune with things like that due to knowing a little more of what it takes... and yes I got that by "hanging it out there"
so is it all a waste? can't answer that - depends what's heading your way in the future...

but back to the hardwiring --- there is a little truth even in the term "weekend warrior" --- to me I understand where this drive comes from - and it's from past generations HAVING to hang it out there in the past just to survive ---- just because times have changed and all you have to do now is have 5 bucks in your bank account so your good to go with pulling up to taco bell and placing your order does not mean that your not going to feel like something in your life is drastically missing and even has less meaning... again you simply do not turn this off like a switch and to the guys that have families and still do it just speaks to the fact that this innate hardwiring is a very powerful thing, and possibly in their particular case so is rebellion... some may actually feel the need even more so just because others are demanding that they should not be driven to do what they do...

tyrone shewlaces
07-31-2016, 01:10 PM
"Mr Aikins - fell dead centre into the 100x100ft net"

First, the net was much larger than the one I saw pictured earlier in the week, which was only about 20 x 20 (I'm guessing that was some test rig or something), so that shows some sanity. Especially since the video very clearly shows him most definitely NOT landing "dead center" in the net, rather more like the outer 1/4.
Still a safe margin and I think that was good aim on the part of the jumper. But it continues to irk me how the media spouts words like they do. Why not just state he landed safely in the net instead of sensationalizing the facts by lying about a "dead center" landing? That would be plenty impressive and factually accurate. Maybe they just compulsively have to include a lie in each story no matter what these days.

edit to add: wait a minute. I just noticed the spelling of the word "centre" and recall the accent of the narration and realized that it was a British report. The British tend to be better journalists so I was a little surprised, then I realized that if it was an American reporter, it's more likely they would say "Mr. Aikins nearly avoided plunging to his death and barely caught the inside edge of the net". So maybe the lesser lie is better?

dave_r
07-31-2016, 01:47 PM
Not all people change once they become parents.

My brother continued to lie, go out and drink instead of looking for work, and when his wife finally left him, he refused to pay anything (not that he had any money) to support his children unless they live with him (thankfully, they do not), hell, he actually ordered my dad to not send any money to them because "it's his business". Of course my dad ignored him.

flylo
07-31-2016, 02:26 PM
You can be anywhere you want when free falling, push your palm down 2" or lift your leg & you can spin 360 degrees, your in total control. As far as Mcgyver's theory about risk taking, it's safer to skydive than drive to the airport or go up in the clapped out 182 & I suspect the report was written by a ball less boring chicken sh*t that falls for every new fad that comes along. I was a buyer which making a great deal somehow ties into it but if you lack the gene I can't even explain it to you. Too bad too as you're missing the best part of life called LIVING.
The guy that made the jump knew exactly what he was doing & in total control & safer than you in your shop. He was safer than going to the mall. I feel sorry for people who exist but never live & see them all the time, saying they want to fly, skydive, etc & when you set it up for them they always have an excuse why they can't that day But will some other day, right.:rolleyes:

RB211
07-31-2016, 02:40 PM
You can be anywhere you want when free falling, push your palm down 2" or lift your leg & you can spin 360 degrees, your in total control. As far as Mcgyver's theory about risk taking, it's safer to skydive than drive to the airport or go up in the clapped out 182 & I suspect the report was written by a ball less boring chicken sh*t that falls for every new fad that comes along. I was a buyer which making a great deal somehow ties into it but if you lack the gene I can't even explain it to you. Too bad too as you're missing the best part of life called LIVING.
The guy that made the jump knew exactly what he was doing & in total control & safer than you in your shop. He was safer than going to the mall. I feel sorry for people who exist but never live & see them all the time, saying they want to fly, skydive, etc & when you set it up for them they always have an excuse why they can't that day But will some other day, right.:rolleyes:

What you call living, I call "narrowly escaping death". Both have the same end result, an addiction to a natural drug called adrenaline.

Joel
07-31-2016, 02:47 PM
it's safer to skydive than drive to the airport
& safer than you in your shop.
He was safer than going to the mall.
These statements are true (presumably, I will take your word for it) under typical skydiving conditions with 2 chutes.
This stunt obviously involved additional risk compared to ordinary circumstances.
This would be reinforced by the admission of the skydiver to being nervous, and by his landing off center in the net.

Mcgyver
07-31-2016, 03:00 PM
YAs far as Mcgyver's theory about risk taking, it's safer to skydive than drive to the airport

1) its not my theory

2) the theory isn't at all about danger - there is little danger in getting into the roller coaster. Its about physiology, psychology and the learned change in behaviour from a chemical response than manifests itself a poor decision making in other aspects of life. I don't full out subscribe to it, but it is logical and not without its supporters. otoh I like AK's hardwired theory....perhaps like most behaviors its difficult to argue where the line is between nature vs nurture and the likely reality is some of each.

3) Living? Staring death in the face? Let's start with using some of those machine tools you've got and posting some projects.....then we can move up to staring death in the face. :)

Carm
07-31-2016, 03:08 PM
As noted, becoming a parent does NOT affect some people towards responsibility towards the lives they have fostered.
" I never knew my father, he jumped out of a plane without a chute"...parents aren't perfect in any sense, but I wouldn't want to ponder that for a lifetime.
As for the "heck of a life insurance policy", I've never heard of a carrier paying for death caused by suicide.

flylo
07-31-2016, 03:32 PM
Nobel prize winner, an old Pastor and a boy scout was flying across the Atlantic when the pilot came bursting through the door and anounced: "We've lost both engines, and there are only three parachutes on the plane. I only received my pilot's licence last month and I still have to serve a lot of people; I simply have to live." With that he grabbed a parachute and jumped.

The Nobel prize winner said: "Just last week I received the prize for being the smartest man on earth. I have a lot of work to do for mankind, sorry, I also have to live." He grabbed a parachute and jumped.

The pastor turned to the boy and said; "Son, I have lived a long life; I have put my faith in what Jesus has done for me and I know for certain that when I die I will go to heaven. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. You take the last parachute and jump."

"Not to worry sir," the boy replied, "there's still two chutes left; the smartest man in the world just jumped with my backpack."

I took the president out so not to offend our "sensitive" members & put in nobel prize winner which will probably p*ss someone else off but I could give a fek.

flylo
07-31-2016, 03:52 PM
1) its not my theory

2) the theory isn't at all about danger - there is little danger in getting into the roller coaster. Its about physiology, psychology and the learned change in behaviour from a chemical response than manifests itself a poor decision making in other aspects of life. I don't full out subscribe to it, but it is logical and not without its supporters. otoh I like AK's hardwired theory....perhaps like most behaviors its difficult to argue where the line is between nature vs nurture and the likely reality is some of each.

3) Living? Staring death in the face? Let's start with using some of those machine tools you've got and posting some projects.....then we can move up to staring death in the face. :)

I think it really proves to a man if he can handle a crisis as things do come up in flying & sky diving & when you keep a cool head & do what is needed without freezing up or panicking. Also both are controlled risk but very unforgiving, controlled by you so it's not sports for slackers or the unorganized or people marking time. That's the exact people I'd hire, ones who can work alone under pressure, get it done right & are organized & detail oriented. You can hire the rest.
As far as my shop I have to hire things moved, lifted & there are way to may of you kind of hires than mine so I'll probably never get it finished & if I did I won't post projects here as some fool will start swearing I'm selling something then idiot #2 & #3 will join in. I do gunsmithing & builds for myself, not for show.

J Tiers
07-31-2016, 04:18 PM
AK, do you have kids? If not I think that might go a long way toward explaining the different positions. When you have them, things change, or they should. ....

There is a very interesting view on this sort of risk taking, the adrenaline rush thing. Many employers watch for it. The theory goes like this, loving the adrenaline rush is a learned behaviour, sort of addiction to your own body's chemical reaction. ....

Where the psychology gets a little messed up and why employers take interest is that it is strong positive reinforcement of bad or reckless decision making. Now, maybe a roller coaster or a drop type ride is not necessarily bad decision making ....but it is physiologically in that the natural fears that are saying get me the F out of here are suppressed and you do it anyway.

So the theory is a pattern of being an adrenaline junky carries over into other decision making and the results are not good with a brain that has learn to expect good things from suppress fears of reckless behaviour. I think its interesting, how extreme the effect is I'm sure. I doubt its an overarching governor behaviour, otoh i don't think its 0 or 1% either.
...

Yep, agree. It's a real deal.

Might be one reason why some tribes had all the males warriors, not marrying until about 30. They got through the "I'm immortal" stage, got their adrenaline, and those who survived were the ones with a bit less of that need than the others, making them better prospects, as well as better citizens.

I am not sure it's all learned, a good number of people seem to be made that way, they NEED it and that's why they even start. Good warrior material, though.

I do NOT agree that it is a selector for good pressure decision making. People who SEEK OUT those situations have a kink that is not good for smart decisions. They are shown to handle stress, but they are NOT shown to be able to avoid situations that create it, instead they WANT to be forced into the situation of pressure. They TRY to get into situations that will force it.

It's a subtle difference in one way (actually I see it as a BIG difference), but I'd want people who CAN deal with stress, but who are NOT going to act in such a way as to force it onto everyone/others.

kendall
07-31-2016, 04:40 PM
- till death do us part"


Ummm, maybe something about his wife that makes jumping out of a plane without a chute at 25,000 feet look like a good idea?

SpoonerandForker
07-31-2016, 04:51 PM
It is interesting that our community seems to have a couple of very divergent opinions on this situation. The one thing that makes us a community is that on some level we all find some joy or at least usefulness in having an ability to make stuff ourselves. Cut an orange in one direction you get a pattern, but cut it on a different axis and you get a different pattern. I enjoy this site precisely because of the diversity of views which allows me to learn and adapt, not because I expect to find THE ONE TRUE ANSWER that I can follow like a lemming. Each of us must find the answer that best suits our own experience, temperament and goals.

So thanks folks, it's been fun, but I have a workbench that is calling me. Be back later, if I don't kill myself doing something that I thought was "Safe".;)

flylo
07-31-2016, 04:56 PM
So how do you find people who can deal with stress unless they have?I've never forced what I've done on others. I'm very competitive but the only one I compete with is me & nothing has ever come easy but if I worked hard enough I could always make it happen until now. I can't work hard enough to fix my broken back even though I believed I could for 5 years. Time to turn the page & do what I still can. I bit off more than I can chew buying the 32 machine shop. But who would pass on that deal? I've had a great life & will conntinue to as I'm a blessed man & Thankful each day. I don't worry or dwell on the past, never even took many pictures as my life has no rearview mirror & back then it was a real PITA to take time to get them developed anyway. And it's fine if we disagree, I wouldn't have it any other way. My only point was if you want to do something do it now. I still plan to get signed off in a DC3. Just need to find an owner needing a machine tool :)

A.K. Boomer
07-31-2016, 05:09 PM
Ummm, maybe something about his wife that makes jumping out of a plane without a chute at 25,000 feet look like a good idea?

When I was writing that - that very thought did go through my mind lol...

plunger
07-31-2016, 05:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by flylo View Post
If you don't stare death in the face once in a while you're not living. Live a little while you still can.
Does parting on the lathe while wearing a welding helmet count.?
Funny thing about adrenalin is it can be felt differently in different sports. The very next day after my first jump I shat myself more on a late take off in big knarly surf . I have been surfing all my life. But it was a bigger adrenalin rush than that first jump

Joel
07-31-2016, 05:37 PM
I do NOT agree that it is a selector for good pressure decision making. People who SEEK OUT those situations have a kink that is not good for smart decisions. They are shown to handle stress, but they are NOT shown to be able to avoid situations that create it, instead they WANT to be forced into the situation of pressure. They TRY to get into situations that will force it.
It's a subtle difference in one way (actually I see it as a BIG difference), but I'd want people who CAN deal with stress, but who are NOT going to act in such a way as to force it onto everyone/others.

Being a FF instructor, I am trained and well versed in risk/benefit assessment and management. It has been my experience (as a firefighting instructor and as incident command in firefighting) that while there appears to be plenty of 'adrenaline seekers', the vast majority (not all) who consider themselves as such either are idiots with a screw loose, or (far more commonly) just think they are and get a whole lot less badass when standing at the doorway of a burning structure with a hose in their hand. Talk is cheap and the world is full of wannabees who are legends only in their own minds.
The willingness to take a given risk and the ability to correctly assess a risk are different skill sets. One should hope that if they posses the first, that they also have the second. But unfortunately, it seem this is often not the case.



its difficult to argue where the line is between nature vs nurture and the likely reality is a bit of both.

I am not sure it's all learned, a good number of people seem to be made that way

This is something I have always found interesting. It has always seemed clear to me that there are three predominant influences to any given behavior, that seem to apply universally. I have never seen this outlined specifically by professionals (or supposed professionals). I give very simplistic examples here in attempt to be brief.
1) Genetic predisposition. - Tall people are more likely to be good at basketball, some people have better memories which open certain doors, some people react well to, or even desire intense situations that might cause others to curl up in a ball and cry.
2) Environment. - If you live among criminals, you are obviously more likely to become a criminal. If you hang around skydivers, it is easier for you to do so, you are encouraged, and thus more likely.
3) How one chooses to react or respond to the previous two influences. - You may be around skydivers and OK with jumping, but simply not be in the mood that day for whatever reason, or perhaps you get nauseous easily and choose not to take a chance on the potential for embarrassment that day, or a million more possibilities.

ikdor
07-31-2016, 06:04 PM
I do believe that the need for adrenaline is hard wired in some people, but it also appears that some seem to need more and more of it to feel alive.
I am fortunate that I have not been in such a situation, but some people who have been shot at and missed describe it as the most exhilirating experience and it made them feel more alive than ever. The adrenaline "junkies" chasing this high can be seen among war correspondents until they finally do get shot.
On another activity; a friend of mine stopped paragliding as he told me many of his friends died in front of him and he felt it was only a matter of time until he would as well.

I am genuinely curious as to when the skydivers here think an activity is pushing it, or is it all fair in the chase for feeling alive?

Spin Doctor
07-31-2016, 06:23 PM
Article ends with him hugging his wife and young son... Blows my mind that someone would take that kind of a risk while his wife and kids look on-- and for what? Notoriety? A world record? I'm sure the world records will be great consolation to his child growing up without a dad and his wife without a husband.

Just seems ludicrous to me, but probably my hobbies seem crazy to some people too.

Later,
Jason

Tell someone you have a full woodworking shop and their eyes light with that "cool" look. But tell them you've got a lathe and a mill in the basement/garage or workshop and most often you will get funny looks. Its like I told one guy wo was bitching about "adults playing with trains". I told that "maybe they should get an adult hobby like him, like playing video poker and going to the casino". Different strokes for different folks.

J Tiers
08-01-2016, 12:35 AM
I do not consider skydiving an adrenaline junkie thing. I can see it being a lot of fun, but I have no desire to do it whatever. Some things are fun not because of the adrenaline, but because of the experience itself. To me, skydiving does not seem to be a "death defying" type deal. To me the fun would be in the free fall, and not in the danger. But I still have no desire to do it.

I enjoyed downhill skiing, which I have not done in so long that my equipment would not be allowed on the hill these days. It was fun from a speed point of view, but not from a danger point of view. I had no desire to go full out and up to the limit of control. I got more fun from going fast and doing the moguls in control, the control wa part of the fun.

So, while I see no "junkie" in a skydiver, I DO DEFINITELY see it in someone who would do it with no 'chute. Maybe that's being too tight-assed, maybe the guy was all about the control and hitting the net. (Gee, yah THINK?) But I strongly suspect that he wanted to do it for the rush of the danger and the pressure it put on him to execute correctly. A danger that is not present to anything like the same degree for routine skydiving. Otherwise he could be just as happy doing targeted skydiving.

It's kind of a fine point, but it's a big one, that makes a lot of difference.

A guy who wants danger and pressure may bet his company on a deal, when that is a bad idea. may accept an insurance risk that should be declined. Gets overextended financially at bad times. That sort of thing. Pretty much like skydiving with no parachute, where things out of your control (crosswinds, etc) can combine to cause a failure, and ANY failure in such cases is likely to be catastrophic. OR, may just be too likely to injure or kill himself doing something nutty, and put the company to the trouble of replacing him, temporarily or permanently.

Business people hate risk and uncertainty. That's always being brought up in discussing the stock market. It really means uncontrolled risk, that is dependent on factors out of their control. Controllable risk (or risk you THINK is controllable) is, and is perceived to be, a lot less risky, but is still a risk. But it is a "normal business risk", similar to skydiving, which is pretty routine these days.

I notice that a lot of folks say "live a little.... take risks'..... kinda says something when someone considers that you can't have fun without taking risks.

Presumably depends on the risk.... It's a risk to get married, it's a risk to have kids (I know someone whose daughter was trying to get her declared incompetent by feeding her a dangerous combination of medications to make her drowsy and sluggish.). Those are normal risks, but are indeed risks, which some people cannot bring themselves to take. But a person can have lots of fun without motorcycle racing, or whatever. Depends on the person.

I can easily understand making hiring decisions to NOT hire a person who is an excessive risk taker. And avoiding someone who is too risk averse also. There is a balance.

thaiguzzi
08-01-2016, 12:39 AM
oh sure but entire governments can make life and death decisions on a false whim and send young men and women by the thousands who are in their prime to their deaths who also happen to have a wife/hubby and children at home and most are ok with that... not to mention making original situations far worse so that it's an ongoing thing in one form or another, perspective

fact is - is the guy's good - hit the center of his target - pulls it off no problemo and yet everybody still want's to say it was not his decision to do so --- probably even had one heck of a life insurance policy to boot,
other fact is - is it's not your call, it's his and his families as it should be - only real obligation I seem to recall in the vows he took was "in sickness and in health - till death do us part" and either way I think he pretty much had that covered, nowhere in there has anything to do with it being mandatory that you have to let your nutsac shrivel up and turn into a marshmallow...:p

More perspective; some married guys with children don't even make it to this guys age cuz they made a habit out of eating two bags of pork rinds everyday and never leaving their sofa, but no real ridicule for them --- all's you really get from people is "geeze such a shame that Hank went so early"

Here. Here. Indeed. Very well spoken.
You only live once, so go for it.

flylo
08-01-2016, 06:10 AM
J Tiers
I do not consider skydiving an adrenaline junkie thing.

You may not consider it but ask anyone who does it & the first several jumps the adrenaline is flowing pretty good when you do it. Live a little & try it, it's very safe you'll be OK.

Black Forest
08-01-2016, 07:31 AM
I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone mentioned what I will write. This was a business decision. I think it was purely money driving this stunt. Of course they had every parameter figured and mapped. With his credentials the risk was minimized. Still a big deal but it was a promotion stunt. At least that is my thoughts.

wierdscience
08-01-2016, 08:53 AM
My first thoughts were as well with his wife and kid. You have to be a father though to really understand this, something changes inside you when you have kids. I don't expect people without kids to understand.
He's entitled to do as he pleases, I just feel sad for his wife, as I do for the wifes of active duty soldiers.

I disagree though on the idea that endangering your life when you're a father proves you have balls. It's easy to endanger yourself, it takes balls to own up to your responsibilities.

Igor

I see it differently,he was a skydiver when she married him,she knew full well what she was buying into and did it anyway.Also you're assuming that she isn't a skydiver herself.

As for being a father and taking risks,well,every time ones leaves the house these days involves risk.Life IS risk,live it while you have it.

J Tiers
08-01-2016, 10:05 AM
J Tiers
I do not consider skydiving an adrenaline junkie thing.

You may not consider it but ask anyone who does it & the first several jumps the adrenaline is flowing pretty good when you do it. Live a little & try it, it's very safe you'll be OK.

I guess you missed the point.

It's not something that is adrenaline inducing due to the risk.... you yourself agreed it is safe, routine even. Not so much if you have no parachute, that seems as if it IS a danger related thrill.

But, you are no judge of the matter. As one saying that a person is "not living" if they take no risks, you are already "labeling yourself" as something of a "danger junkie", and so incapable of being an unbiased judge.

As for me, I have other risky behaviors that I consider fun...although I don't do them much anymore... skydiving just isn't something that I have an interest in.

flylo
08-01-2016, 10:39 AM
I'm not anyone's judge but can give my opinion which is if you think you want to try something don't put it off, just my opinion & I have judged no one. And you're changing what I said. Where did I say I was a "danger junkie"? I told you skydiving is safe as the guy that jumped without a chute was safe, look how many jumps he had & his qualifications. Please don't "add to" what I say. Living, flying, skydiving, racing has a bit of risk but the people who do these things are very careful so it's a calculated risk. The idiots die quick. I worked on & checked my planes, chutes, bikes, etc as I do have a responsibility to my family as the guy without a chute has. It's a trill probably safer than a roller coaster as the roller coaster rider is trusting his life to someone else & doesn't even know how it works. I am a trill seeker but calling me "danger junkie" is an insult reserved for Bubba saying hold my beer & watch this. You'll never understand.

pinstripe
08-01-2016, 10:47 AM
But I strongly suspect that he wanted to do it for the rush of the danger and the pressure it put on him to execute correctly. A danger that is not present to anything like the same degree for routine skydiving. Otherwise he could be just as happy doing targeted skydiving.

Agreed. His heart rate was 148 in the early stages. Presumably he still had the option to call it off at that point. If this guy has done 18,000 jumps, then he probably gets little rush from a normal jump. I'd love to know what his heart rate was towards the end.

I liked how the commentator says "now we wanna wait for our medical staff to check him out and give us the official OK." A dude in a "Medic" shirt walks up to him, high-fives him, and keeps walking. A pretty comprehensive examination :) I guess the outcome was always going to be binary.

J Tiers
08-01-2016, 12:07 PM
I'm not anyone's judge but can give my opinion which is if you think you want to try something don't put it off, just my opinion & I have judged no one. And you're changing what I said. Where did I say I was a "danger junkie"? I told you skydiving is safe as the guy that jumped without a chute was safe, look how many jumps he had & his qualifications. Please don't "add to" what I say. Living, flying, skydiving, racing has a bit of risk but the people who do these things are very careful so it's a calculated risk. The idiots die quick. I worked on & checked my planes, chutes, bikes, etc as I do have a responsibility to my family as the guy without a chute has. It's a trill probably safer than a roller coaster as the roller coaster rider is trusting his life to someone else & doesn't even know how it works. I am a trill seeker but calling me "danger junkie" is an insult reserved for Bubba saying hold my beer & watch this. You'll never understand.


I did not CALL YOU a danger junkie, I said you were "SELF LABELING" as one by what you said. Don't twist my words around.

YOU "called yourself a danger junkie", all I did was point out what you did, and mention what that implied. And now you say you are not one, so you must have not been clear in what you said originally.

Anyway......

Neither will YOU ever understand, I guess..... there is a distinction, which you are ignoring, or are unaware of.

Two different things....

1) dangerous but skill related.... Skydiving itself is "dangerous", as are many many, even most, other things. But those are generally "skill related", meaning that if you know how/what to do, the danger is reduced a lot, to where it is not necessarily worse than, say, driving a car. The variables exist, but are lower level.

2) Dangerous, possibly skill related, but with unknown random variables. Downhill skiing is skill related, if you are not good, stay off the black diamond runs. If you ARE good, it's really not a risk. But, if you add-in people randomly shooting across the run, some folks would be unable to resist the danger, others would stay away.

Some people would go down an unmarked slope that they have never seen before at full speed, not knowing if there are stumps or rocks, cliffs, etc. They would say it was "no fun" if you knew the run. That's accepting, actually welcoming, the unknown but serious risks, and assuming there is "nothing you can't handle". A person might be forced by circumstances to do something like that, but only a true "danger junkie" would CHOOSE to do it just because it's there.

That's the difference. Some cannot resist the unknown, unpredictable, un-reducible dangers and risks. The more the better, for them. Card playing gamblers are often highly skilled, and play the odds well. Others will bet on things that they have no control whatsoever over, like betting a large pot on a cut, or a single throw of dice. For them, playing the odds is "too safe".... and if they are NOT betting their house, or some large amount, on something totally random, they "are not having fun".

The guy with no parachute, he could check, but never KNOW that there was not a crosswind that would blow him too far away to correct and could prevent him landing on the net. 25,000 feet is a long fall, covering a lot of atmosphere. The target subtends an angle of about 0.004 degree from that altitude. Lots to go wrong, and nothing to be done about it if it does.

Skill? SURE, he is a skillful skydiver, and knows how to correct, but some things may not be correctable. And the desire to do it in spite of those very significant unknowns is the key issue.

Then there are other "daredevils".... A guy who for some reason decided to do a stunt where he drove a motorcycle through a couple hundred feet of a tunnel of straw held on some sort of frame... with the straw burning. He got through it, too, but then for some unknown reason turned around and went back through the other way. Didn't make it that time. Why did he go back? Not enough danger the first time? we don;t and will never know, but its fairly safe to assume he was a danger junkie.

Oh, yeah,then there is the "here, hold my beer" guy. You've got him pegged wrong also. He's NOT a danger junkie....

Those guys don't understand the dangers, so they are NEITHER knowingly accepting the risk and assuming their skill can handle it, NOR are they seeking the risk. They don't even UNDERSTAND it, so they are incapable of either accepting OR seeking the risk, they don't even SEE the risk.

That is totally different from being a danger junkie, it's just being an ignorant fool.

plunger
08-01-2016, 12:24 PM
I wonder how many times out of ten he would succeed ?

Fasttrack
08-01-2016, 12:53 PM
Aside from the "be responsible" versus "carpe diem" argument going on here... didn't anyone catch this:


Mr Aikins, who is a safety and training adviser for the US Parachute Association, said his friend came up with the idea two years ago.

Anyone else find this ironic?

J Tiers
08-01-2016, 01:12 PM
Aside from the "be responsible" versus "carpe diem" argument going on here... didn't anyone catch this:

<"Mr Aikins, who is a safety and training adviser for the US Parachute Association,">

Anyone else find this ironic?

Yeah, doing that ought to almost disqualify a safety training advisor. But maybe not, he's acquainted with risks, and there is no doubt he has already pretty much done as risky a thing as you CAN do along that line. Maybe he's BETTER qualified by succeeding....... It's a cinch he would have been disqualified if he failed.

His wife may very likely also be a skydiver, I'd call it nearly certain. But I bet there was a rather frank discussion afterward.... "OK, you did it, and that's the %$#@! end if it, you'll have a damn 'chute on every time from now on!"

JCHannum
08-01-2016, 01:33 PM
What does he do for an encore?

Willy
08-01-2016, 02:08 PM
I personally look at this stunt as a matter of risk assessment and management.
This guy eats and sleeps skydiving. He's done this so many times in his mind's eye that this documented stunt was almost anti-climatic. Sure to us it seems foolhardy, and therein lies the drama to all of us in the stands. To us mere mortals it seems foolhardy and we stand in awe, while to the jumper it's just another click on the jump counter.

In the link that the OP left it states this man has done over 18,000 jumps. That about 2.5 jumps per day, 7 days a week...for 20 years!
In addition to all of that practice and the observations he made during those 18,000 plus jumps, his choice of location and weather were also factored into the equation, along with a host of other factors I'm sure.

Paul Alciatore
08-01-2016, 02:10 PM
Your point is well taken. But I will still stay with the aircraft as long as it can at least glide down. Or auto-rotate if it is a helicopter.




The planes I jumped out of were DEFINATELY NOT perfectly good. They were old worn out wrecks.:cool::cool::cool::cool:

For those who think only a father can understand responsibility, perhaps only a jumper understands how much control you really have in freefall. This man had logged 18,000 jumps and trained Navy Seals in jump safety. He was no random nut job.

dave_r
08-01-2016, 02:41 PM
What does he do for an encore?

Smaller net.

A.K. Boomer
08-01-2016, 02:47 PM
on a more technical note I wonder if he spiraled his way in when approaching the net - a very tight spiral would allow you to judge proper corrections rather that just a fore or aft glide, so what do you do when it's not your area of thrill sport - ask someone who is --- Flylow what say you upon approaching? and I of course ask Flylow because he actually does not just guess at things - he gets out in life and actually does them :p

SpoonerandForker
08-01-2016, 03:30 PM
You have a very well thought out post but let me point out the obvious.


the danger is reduced a lot, to where it is not necessarily worse than, say, driving a car.
At one time, driving a horseless carriage was considered a daredevil activity.


Also, we have no idea what his wife's reaction was. Rather than,
"OK, you did it, and that's the %$#@! end if it, you'll have a damn 'chute on every time from now on!"
She may well have said, "OK, you did it, Next time. it's MY #$%^ing turn...":cool:

danlb
08-01-2016, 03:58 PM
So how do you find people who can deal with stress unless they have?

There are a lot of testing protocols that evaluate how people react under stress. You don't have to duplicate the complete experience. I've had to go through multi day tests that evaluated your ability to react calmly under pressure.

Dan

flametamer
08-01-2016, 04:24 PM
Someone has already dubbed it "skyfalling". I guess to differentiate it from skydiving and to make is a new fad.

Dt

RB211
08-01-2016, 04:54 PM
Someone has already dubbed it "skyfalling". I guess to differentiate it from skydiving and to make is a new fad.

Dt

I think a better term would be Splat, Let's go splattering!

flylo
08-01-2016, 04:58 PM
There are a lot of testing protocols that evaluate how people react under stress. You don't have to duplicate the complete experience. I've had to go through multi day tests that evaluated your ability to react calmly under pressure.

Dan

Several days of testing vs skydiving, flying, diving at Gilboa Oh quarry, I'll pass on the testing & you can have my spot, Thanks anyway.:rolleyes:

flylo
08-01-2016, 05:05 PM
You have a very well thought out post but let me point out the obvious.

At one time, driving a horseless carriage was considered a daredevil activity.


Also, we have no idea what his wife's reaction was. Rather than,
"OK, you did it, and that's the %$#@! end if it, you'll have a damn 'chute on every time from now on!"
She may well have said, "OK, you did it, Next time. it's MY #$%^ing turn...":cool:

I remember in school a poster that claimed at one time there were only 2 cars in Ohio & guess what the collided. Not positive it was true but a neat poster.

flylo
08-01-2016, 05:57 PM
I think a better term would be Splat, Let's go splattering!

Actually skyflying would be more accurate as you have no sense of falling until about ground rush about 500' which is a bit late. I really wisk I could have tried a wing suit. BTW it's not splattering it's called bouncing & jumpers don't have a lot of emotion when someone bounces, like "Fred bounced last week I knew he would" also rookie skydivers don't usually even accepted until 500+ jumps or even more.

RB211
08-01-2016, 06:59 PM
Actually skyflying would be more accurate as you have no sense of falling until about ground rush about 500' which is a bit late. I really wisk I could have tried a wing suit. BTW it's not splattering it's called bouncing & jumpers don't have a lot of emotion when someone bounces, like "Fred bounced last week I knew he would" also rookie skydivers don't usually even accepted until 500+ jumps or even more.
As a pilot, I've been to a couple of jump areas. One being at 2IS glades city, another in Central CA. The atmosphere at both reminded me of territorial surfers. Type A's who thought they were the **** while the rest of the world could never relate to them at any level.

J Tiers
08-01-2016, 07:11 PM
As a pilot, I've been to a couple of jump areas. One being at 2IS glades city, another in Central CA. The atmosphere at both reminded me of territorial surfers. Type A's who thought they were the **** while the rest of the world could never relate to them at any level.

Allee same-same with everything of the sort.....

Riders and cagers.... pilots and passengers, whatever.

SpoonerandForker
08-02-2016, 12:05 AM
Allee same-same with everything of the sort.....

Riders and cagers.... pilots and passengers, whatever.

Machinists and woodpeckers???;)

dave_r
08-02-2016, 01:48 AM
You have a very well thought out post but let me point out the obvious.

At one time, driving a horseless carriage was considered a daredevil activity.

...clipped...


It still is. The US kills 0.01% (about 32,000 people every year, population of 318 million) of its population every year due to vehicle crashes.

A.K. Boomer
08-02-2016, 10:36 AM
There are a lot of testing protocols that evaluate how people react under stress. You don't have to duplicate the complete experience. I've had to go through multi day tests that evaluated your ability to react calmly under pressure.

Dan

Only to a degree - nothing lets you know how prepared and how much you have your act together than the reality itself,
and iv never done anything that has taught me more this way than white water kayaking - most situations get over with - then you can evaluate and go into salvage mode --- and if your lucky get back to getting on with your day,
but white water is or at least can be a continual train wreck --- and no disrespect to people who are "first responders" but generally by the time they arrive it's already about an hour too late.
So every boater worth his weight in salt has to become one - it's not only how you save others but keep yourself alive, from learning CPR to how to toss a throw rope to vector pull to setting up a C-rig or Z-drag to how to escape a keeper hydraulic,
for the most part I was self taught but make no mistake I took some things way beyond the norm, and not stubborn to the point of never cracking a book - I did more reading than I ever have,

here's a little eye opener chart about just how serious things can get out there - god help you if you ever get pinned in strong current because just a simple Kayak will have the weight of a car on your back,,,

The Force of Current
Current Velocity Average Total Force of Water (Foot Pounds)
MPH-On Legs-On Body-On Swamped Boat
3 ---16.8------ 33.6------- 168.0
6 ---67.2 ------134.0 -------672.0
9 ---151.0 -----302.0 -------1512.0
12 --269.0 -----538.0 -------2688.0

When I finally did get tested a few times I can honestly say im proud of the way I handled things - not only that - I think most importantly I found out that I have a fair amount of courage - to me that alone is priceless - I have much more confidence because of it...

You do not achieve this stuff by being disconnected - you achieve it by sweating the details - and you sweat the details because your ass is on the line and you also want feel you gave your best effort should somebody need your assistance just for the sake of wanting to live with yourself after the fact - many a times late at night running over countless scenario's, and make no mistake the prime motivator was hanging it out there in the first place and realizing just how dangerous the sport is,,, you don't get that by "testing protocols"
out on the river we have allot to worry about - Keeper hydraulics, low head dams, strainers, suckholes, foot entrapments, vertical pins, broaches, hypothermia, not to mention just plain good ole fashioned drowning just to name a few, now throw in solo boating down some class 4+ and you better have it together, there is nothing like it - the feeling when you put into the water - start dropping down into the canyon and leaving it all behind - this is it folks - this is not a game - and it's not one you can bluff your way through - no artificial on-board sensors and computer brain going to save your ass now - it's all you - you better have been accurate with your assessment of who you are and what you can handle, there simply is nothing like testing yourself in this manner --- nothing...
and iv been hearing allot about how you would have to have kids to understand how one must change after they are born - but now I will say this - unless you have done something similar - your not going to understand the importance of taking a serious sport this far, perhaps why there's allot of Moms and Dads out there still floating their boats down some pretty sketchy stuff, if their in tune - if their with it - and if they are keeping it to their ability level then I don't look at them as being reckless - I actually look at them as setting an incredible example...

We gauge certain river runs by "class" --- generally ranging from 1 to 5 although that can be disputed on the higher end of it

and we gauge that river run not just in the initial threat but also by what's immediately downstream - generally called "consequences"

I bring this up because I look at life a little different then most - I actually see real life consequences in life by playing it too safe, in fact I think that can be very dangerous behavior --- simply for not knowing things about our physical world that you should,,, i mean what are we here for??? I also see allot of people my age with serious health issues - something I think I owe much credit in avoiding because of pedaling my bike,
and yes there has to be adrenaline in doing that also - otherwise its hard to stay motivated day in day out - but just last week I crested a brutal run about two minutes ahead of the other guy I was with - who is in his prime and almost 1/3rd my age.
Again guess you have to ask yourself what your here for, I know what keeps me going... and iv reached a point where I feel I have packed allot of lifetimes into just one,,, skating for free now so it's all just extra added bonuses...

that being said there's a balance to be had, You need to know your limits and stick close to them - this is not an area for peer pressure - those voices should be so distant you don't even hear them... Like doing it? good - then keep close to your level so you can hopefully keep doing it for a long time to come...
you also need to evaluate others around you - the level their at and how they are fairing --- when I was in the water allot one of my boater friends was at a level far greater than I - and boated with the best in the world - but also lost over a dozen people to the river - some while on the same run together, that's not fun to me - that's beyond rolling the dice,
I was tempted to get into more and more and more also - but I caught myself after a certain level - and just stayed put...

it's a personal journey - and for me I would hate to think what my life would have been like without my warrior sports,,,
I not only have to have an outlet, but with the valuable things iv learned along the way I feel very blessed in life so far,
yes so far - and yes that could all change in an instant - but that's a given for everybody - just when it happens to me I expect I will still have a little smirk on my face for all the crazy stunts iv pulled off and gotten away with :p
it is a very big part of what I consider living...

takes all kinds - nobody should be forcing anyone to think a certain way, as long as nobody else is getting dragged into the mix without their consent it's all good... that includes spouses curtailing someone who want's to live their life to the fullest and avoid many of the dangerous pitfalls of playing it too safe - and therefor never even living while they were here...

J Tiers
08-02-2016, 11:15 AM
It seems to be like the calculation any predator makes before attacking prey. "can I get this meal without being damaged too much to catch the next one?". Reward vs risk. If the reward is larger, the risk can be larger. The risk of getting mariried is that the wife may turn into a vindictive person (possibly for cause, of course) who soaks you for all your money in the divorce. But folks do get marired.

It's a risk to be alive. (Actually it is NO risk to be alive, because you KNOW you are not getting away with it.... the only question is when, today, tomorrow, in 40 years.... whatever.)

Some things are dangerous, but your skill level makes it less so. Crossing the street, working on a 75,000 volt line hot, running power machinery, driving.... all things which you can learn to do safely enough that accidents are rare compared to the total number of times they are done per day. Other things may be different, and not be very sensitive to skill level. Russian roulette, for example.

The question is, do you respect yourself enough to stay reasonably safe, in other words, generally within your skill level? Do you respect others enough to not drag them into the dangers you create?

Some folks simply show that they neither respect themselves, nor others, enough to not attempt what they don't know how to do, to not drag others into their own dangers. Folks who drive drunk, text when driving in traffic on the highway, read the paper while driving, those are classic cases of people operating outside reasonable skill levels, and regularly killing others. But there are many other activities that classify like that as well.

How much respect can a person who plays russian roulette have for himself? Or his family? But people do that. How much respect for anyone, including his family, does a person have who texts while on the highway at 70 mph? But people do that.

People in some cultures would say that folks who do such things are "acting as if they have no family", meaning that they do not care about their reputation, nor about burdens/debts they may impose on family. It's a good way to look at things.

flylo
08-02-2016, 11:40 AM
Many people just should not do certain things, use power tools, ski, fly, skydive, race, anything that can have danger involved & there's nothing wrong with that. I watched a show on Tiny houses & couldn't believe how a couple of people had no skills or confidence at all. I've never been around people like that & it's fine but IMHO the ones I'm speaking of should not do any of the above. One guy stopped having anything to do with his dad years before but took the $50k when his dad died which I wouldn't do. But anyway he spent it on building a Tiny house that looked 16' long & a year to do it & almost had a nervous breakdown before it was over. Anyway point being people are different, have different interest & should respect others choices.

A.K. Boomer
08-02-2016, 11:43 AM
It's all good as long as one does include the fact that there is real risk and very serious consequences in trying to avoid all risk...
and no - not joking in the least bit here...

J Tiers
08-02-2016, 12:28 PM
It's all good as long as one does include the fact that there is real risk and very serious consequences in trying to avoid all risk...
and no - not joking in the least bit here...

If you try to avoid all risk, you hold your breath and die. The air might be poisoned, you know. But of course that involves ignoring yet ANOTHER risk that is more concerning.....

Presumably you should never have done anything you now do routinely..... After all, at one time you had no clue how to do them. OK, taking it to extremes.....

But to bring it right back to HSM land...... Why is it that so many folks don't try to do new things in the shop? I suppose that according to the "if you don't know how, then don't attempt it" theory, that's logical. But learning is a process, and its entirely fine to go a bit past your skill level.... Otherwise you would never do anything, never DEVELOP the skills.

The very best craftsman at one time knew less about his craft than you do now, no matter how little you know. So it's worth taking a risk to try new things. Of course, there are some skills such as understanding how to restrain the workpiece so it does not fly out and bop you, but with basic skills like that in place, one can attempt new things with the risk limited pretty much to spoiling the work.

Confidence comes from doing something similar. Ride one bike, you can ride another with a little experimentation. Make one hard piece to machine, and you have more confidence that you can do another different one. That doesn't mean you may not foul up, but if you do, you will know why, AND know that you can avoid the problem next time..

That said, my neighbor should not use power tools. He's cut himself with hedge trimmers, broke a finger cleaning a 'fridge, blew up my lawnmower.... And he's not even a lawyer! He's THAT guy you are talking about, but it's largely through not thinking ahead, which even he could probably learn.

A.K. Boomer
08-02-2016, 12:37 PM
yup well said - and then there's the area's where you just learn from others and call it good - like never cutting into an old oil drum with a torch, im good with that --- never need to "go there" and hope a huge red flag goes off if I ever forget or try to do something similar - flag should go off preferably ahead of time :p

Fasttrack
08-02-2016, 04:45 PM
Hmm... apparently the net wasn't necessary ;)

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/highest-fall-survived-without-parachute/

A.K. Boomer
08-02-2016, 09:24 PM
Hmm... apparently the net wasn't necessary ;)

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/highest-fall-survived-without-parachute/

"But three days later, she awoke from her coma, and asked for a cigarette!"

Nuthin spells being grateful your still alive like lightin up a coffin nail... lol geeze - some peoples kids...

Tundra Twin Track
08-03-2016, 12:42 AM
This will be my 31 winter snowmobiling in the mountains,many figure I have a death wish with all the Avalanche deaths over the years.I don't have the balls that I had a few years back but still like to ride in the deep stuff,in the trees is my favorite.Have lost some freinds to avys,but with training and mileage it can be fairly safe.I did get caught in 2.5 avy in 2008 but deployed my ABS before being knocked out and when came to was on top of the slide,turned out good!

SpoonerandForker
08-03-2016, 01:35 AM
Just heard an NPR interview where the jumper quoted Mohamad Ali, "Impossible is not a fact, it is an opinion."

Consider that an interesting clue about the "why" question.