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View Full Version : A bit naive about YouTube--O.T.



brian Rupnow
09-14-2016, 10:30 AM
August and up until now in September have been VERY slow months for me, work-wise.--(that's "real work" as in engineering design). After my big thresh in July to design and build the Rupnow Vertical engine, I haven't been too interested in playing in my machine shop. So---Out of boredom, I have been watching a lot of machining and related videos on YouTube. Last week on the 10th of Sept. I got a "pop-up" on my computer monitor saying I had used up 75% of my available internet for September. I immediately called my internet provider and asked how this could be, so early in the month. (I had 55 gigabytes available). It seems that YouTube videos eat up a tremendous amount of your available internet monthly allowance. I didn't know that. For $11 more a month I was able to up my internet monthly allowance to 120 gigabytes. I am a bit disappointed in this. I won't be so quick to click on Youtube videos to watch them from now on.---Brian

justanengineer
09-14-2016, 10:44 AM
Yup, streaming video is the #1 cause of smart phone data overages. Sorry I cant help otherwise, never heard of an internet data limit here and I stream and download constantly.

RB211
09-14-2016, 11:22 AM
Your home internet provider limits amount of data? Thats like Adolf Hitler type of scary!

brian Rupnow
09-14-2016, 12:08 PM
Your home internet provider limits amount of data? Thats like Adolf Hitler type of scary!
I thought that this was pretty well a standard practice. The more internet you use, then the more you pay for it. I don't think that it's looking at web pages that drives the usage up beyond limits,. It is more the act of uploading or downloading information (particularly video) that is the big user.

lynnl
09-14-2016, 12:13 PM
I thought that this was pretty well a standard practice. The more internet you use, then the more you pay for it. ...

Are you on a satellite internet service?

chipmaker4130
09-14-2016, 12:22 PM
You can reduce data usage dramatically by lowering the resolution of what you watch. Unless you're using a big-screen TV, you really don't need '1080p'. Try different settings until you find the lowest resolution you can still enjoy.

Mike Nash
09-14-2016, 12:39 PM
Remember how your browser would download the whole file so you got x amount of data to view one video? Now, if you do anything at all with the time slider, it throws away everything it had buffered on your machine and starts again from that point. And the tiny buffer always seems to empty before more data is "streamed". Streams flow, they don't spit. Probably trying to get just one more ad in your face.

RB211
09-14-2016, 02:24 PM
I thought that this was pretty well a standard practice. The more internet you use, then the more you pay for it. I don't think that it's looking at web pages that drives the usage up beyond limits,. It is more the act of uploading or downloading information (particularly video) that is the big user.
Only with cell phones and satellite. Cable, DSL, Fiber, Copper t1/t3/dial-up, etc do not restrict amount of data. Pretty sure this would start a civil war in the USA.

Mcgyver
09-14-2016, 02:25 PM
Your home internet provider limits amount of data? Thats like Adolf Hitler type of scary!

you nailed it....that's communications and banking in Canada. Almost no competition, basically lucrative state granted franchises

Joel
09-14-2016, 02:39 PM
My AT&T DSL provides 150 gig a month. I never even come close to that and have watched LOTS of videos a few months.
Why is having some limit so unreasonable? Should someone who uses a few meg a month pay the same as someone who has their connection maxed out 24/7 for the entire month?

RB211
09-14-2016, 02:57 PM
My AT&T DSL provides 150 gig a month. I never even come close to that and have watched LOTS of videos a few months.
Why is having some limit so unreasonable? Should someone who uses a few meg a month pay the same as someone who has their connection maxed out 24/7 for the entire month?

Because what you pay for your few megs a month, I get fiber into the home at 50mbps up and down that feeds many, many devices. I don't watch TV, I watch youTube, HBOgo, Netflix, Amazon Prime. iOS 10 came out, thats a gig per device, AppleOS Sierra is coming out on the 20th, thats probably a few gigs.
Theres competition where I live, I might switch back to cable and get the 100mbps up and down they are advertising for 35$ a month. Then switch back to Fiber when that deal is over. Limiting data would kill a big chunk of our economy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nc5a
09-14-2016, 03:06 PM
Actually I don't know anyone that doesn't have a monthly data limit for internet. Five years ago I had a 10 gig limit, then 3 years ago I upgraded to 25 gigs then last year my DSL provider automatically boosted me to 50 gigs. When I had a 10 gig limit I would go over once or twice a year, never with 25 gigs and roll over data and certainly no worries with 50 gig. But then again this is Alaska and we generally lag behind the Lower 48 states so it's understandable at least to me that we have data limits.

Mcgyver
09-14-2016, 04:16 PM
you tube for the most part seems very low res vs say a DVD. I surprised you'd hit a cap with. I've got several people in the house with Netflix accounts (better res than you tube I'd guess) and haven't had a bandwidth cap issue.

How many you tube videos are you watching?

brian Rupnow
09-14-2016, 04:19 PM
Maybe 10 or 12, at about 20 minute maximum each. I watched one really good one about the investment casting process that might have been 40 minutes.

Joel
09-14-2016, 04:20 PM
Because what you pay for your few megs a month, I get fiber into the home at 50mbps up and down that feeds many, many devices. I don't watch TV, I watch youTube, HBOgo, Netflix, Amazon Prime. iOS 10 came out, thats a gig per device, AppleOS Sierra is coming out on the 20th, thats probably a few gigs.
Theres competition where I live, I might switch back to cable and get the 100mbps up and down they are advertising for 35$ a month. Then switch back to Fiber when that deal is over.
Curious. And how exactly would you know what I pay? That 150 gig cost's me $10 a month for the high speed DSL (slow by your apparent standards I would imagine, but page loads are essentially instant and it is faster than necessary to stream, so plenty fast for us). Seems like a bargain to me.

Your desire to use an enormous amount of bandwidth isn't my or anyone else's problem, nor should anyone else be expected pay for it, of course. That would be a stupid way to do business, so cost-for-use limits make sense to me.
I don't particularly care how much bandwidth you use or how much you pay. That is your business, and I only asked the 'limits' question in the event I was missing something. We have streamed and pulled metric tons of stuff off the web a few months, and have never maxed out, so I have a hard time believing anyone's world will end by having some limits. Brian had been getting by quite well with a third of that, as we generally do, and as I am sure many, many others also do. People sometimes have to show some restraint in life, or choose to pay more for their choice of playtime. It's really not that big of a deal.

FWIW, I find it easy to use less than 30 meg a month on my phone (OMG-only 30 meg!). That's how much I get for free (well, not free, it is included with the basic text plan at no additional charge), and I do the heavy lifting on the DSL and move it to my phone on rare occasion, and don't play with my phone all the time (it's not required to keep me amused with an entire physical universe readily available, and the actual necessities require little data). Our TV is an older computer with a dual tuner card (free TV and free DVR!) and some movie or TV show downloads or streams - we refuse to be any sort of a slave to it. There is some really good stuff to be found, but after all, it is only TV.


Limiting data would kill a big chunk of our economy.
Ahh, an answer.
Data IS limited and our economy seems to be doing OK despite it. Paying for what you use is very, very far from "Adolph Hitler scary".

Mcgyver
09-14-2016, 04:22 PM
just a guess, but I can't see that being even anywhere near a gig let alone 50......could it be something else is draining the bandwidth?

Joel
09-14-2016, 04:24 PM
Maybe 10 or 12, at about 20 minute maximum each. I watched one really good one about the investment casting process that might have been 40 minutes.


Hmm, I wonder if you have a virus. A 10 minute video at 240p is only about 47 meg.

RB211
09-14-2016, 04:32 PM
Using tapatalk on my phone browsing this forum, and others easily exceeded a gig of data with pictures. It's a false economy, having to watch your data is not worth it to me. And I have no idea how much data I use at home. Probably less than you being that I am never home, and in fact watching my data on my cell account when I can't use free wifi at the hotel or airport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

haroldmulder
09-14-2016, 06:54 PM
Brian I would talk to your internet provider to look over your account to see when the gigs were used. I watch quite a bit of youtube and I haven't been over 30gigs in a month.
As mentioned you might have a virus or some other program running in the background or if you use WIFI maybe somebody else is tagging onto your signal.
Good Luck

Paul Alciatore
09-14-2016, 08:41 PM
A single "page" of text: 50 lines x 100 characters per line. Each character is sent as one byte. That's 5,000 bytes or 5K of data. Add some formatting and you get a bit more, but still well under 10K of data. That's text only.

Add a still picture, say 600 x 800 pixels. At one byte per pixel, you need around 480,000 bytes or 480K. But they are compressed so probably more like 48K or even 24K. But that is only one STILL picture and most web pages have several of them. So, a typical web page probably has around 50K or more of data for the still photo and image content.

Video uses a succession of still images to create the illusion of motion. Good old (old as in obsolute) NTSC video had a 5 Mhz bandwidth. That means that around 5Mb of data PER SECOND for a standard definition video (480 x 620 pixels). Again, there was compression, but for good quality it couldn't be too drastic. So 1Mb or 2Mb was probably a practical limit for good quality. Today much internet video is high definition so the above is multiplied back to several Mb or more of data for every second of video transmitted. Now, many videos are sent with higher compression rates, but you are still playing in the big leagues of data transmission.

Relative data rates:

Text page: 10K, sent ONE time.

Typical page with still images: 50K or more sent ONE time.

Streaming video: 1Mb or more (usually more) sent PER SECOND while the video is being viewed.

Oh, and most of the programs that display the videos DO NOT store the whole video. They buffer a bit ahead and retain the already viewed video for a short time, but if you skip back to the beginning of a 15 minute video, you will probably have to download it again, chewing up even more of your allotted data usage.

My numbers are only approximate. I am sure that different methods of compressing the data are used and will produce different results. And there are many methods in use. But they do illustrate the relative ratios of data needed for text vs. still images vs. videos even if those are approximate. And they do not include the audio requirements which are a whole other thing. Fortunately, audio, even hifi stereo audio only requires a small fraction as much data as the video does.

kendall
09-14-2016, 09:08 PM
I'm on satellite internet and have a cap, best thing to do is schedule downloads for my 'free' time, which is midnight to 5am, bit torrent and most other programs allow scheduling, many don't, but you can find third party programs that allow scheduling on the net. Sadly, I can't recommend any because I normally stay up till midnight and operate while half asleep...

GNM109
09-14-2016, 09:35 PM
I found this link on the Internet. It shows whether some of the popular servers have a cap. Mine does not.

https://gigaom.com/2013/11/15/data-cap-2013/

wierdscience
09-14-2016, 10:02 PM
Something doesn't sound right Brian,Like others I would quiz your provider.I watch Youtube and stream video via Amazon frequently and never even approach that.

chipmaker4130
09-14-2016, 10:25 PM
Brian, if you use Windows 10, maybe Microsoft is using you to distribute 'updates', etc. I think you have to manually turn that off.

ulav8r
09-15-2016, 10:49 PM
I found this link on the Internet. It shows whether some of the popular servers have a cap. Mine does not.

https://gigaom.com/2013/11/15/data-cap-2013/


That showed no cap on Verizon, but when I had a Verizon wireless hotspot it had a 5 gig cap. I did not watch youtube when on it. About 2 years ago I switched to Suddenlink cable and now have 150 gig/month on my base plan.

Dan Dubeau
09-16-2016, 10:38 AM
Wow, 55 gb? I'd be in heaven. Here's my recent internet bill.....

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/danrdubeau/46F52C15-C5D2-40E2-A1C3-B7DE4A617E66_zpshfxyrdp8.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/danrdubeau/media/46F52C15-C5D2-40E2-A1C3-B7DE4A617E66_zpshfxyrdp8.jpg.html)

Living in the sticks has it's pluses and minuses. And don't even get me started on the hydro bill.......

This post probably cost me $3.00 ha ha.