PDA

View Full Version : Drill Press Vise



becksmachine
09-23-2016, 01:08 AM
I was playing around with my new drill press vise yesterday, and built a little part in the process that is sorta cute!

The vise itself is a really cool thing, I had seen them before for use when freehand cutting stuff on a bandsaw but had never grasped the utility of adapting one for use on a drill press. I don't know how many times I have replaced the knobs on my other little drill press vise when I was too lazy to tie it down and it got away from me and bashes the knobs against the column protector.

Anyhow, I was working on finding the best location for the anchor clamp. Of course all locations had some drawback, so I ended up with two, they should work for most cases.

When using a sliding t-bar handle, it always seems that the handle is never in the right angular quadrant to allow for the easiest pull to tighten it. This wouldn't be such a problem if I had just used a hex head bolt and box end wrench, but I was already started down the t-handle path so.......

You can use shims under the head to alter the "tightening zone" but the shims wear, the threads wear, and the "tightening zone" is once again in an awkward position. Plus, it is such a mundane solution. :p

I thought about altering how far the stud screws into the handle, but this doesn't change the angular position of the handle. If the threads on the stud were a different pitch where it screws into the handle, that would alter the angular relationship of the t-bar to the axial length of the threads on the stud.

So rather than make a custom stud with two different pitches on each end, I made an adapter out of some 3/4" - 10 all thread that screws into the handle, with a 1/2" - 20 tapped hole for the stud to screw into.

Then I milled a hex on the end of the adapter to allow locking the adapter/stud combination in the handle body using a set screw that is drilled and tapped in the handle body.

The photos explain all!

Dave


http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2930.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2933.jpg
http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2935.jpg

becksmachine
09-23-2016, 01:13 AM
More photos.

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2938.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2937.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2941_1.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Drill%20Press%20Vise/IMG_2943.jpg

Paul Alciatore
09-23-2016, 01:58 AM
Ever hear of adjustable clamp handles?

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=adjustable+clamp+handle&qpvt=adjustable+clamp+handle&qpvt=adjustable+clamp+handle&qpvt=adjustable+clamp+handle&FORM=IGRE

Just push the button and position the handle where you want it. I love them.

EddyCurr
09-23-2016, 09:15 AM
I like the hex on the adapter to provide a seat for the set screw to bear against. I haven't come across that approach before. Some might quibble about the redundancy - let 'em.

Is there a threaded hole at the very edge of the table, adjacent to the T-slot? Is this and the hole inboard that appears to have an insert the 'two locations' mentioned in the OP? The outboard location seems so close to the edge I puzzled over whether there is 1) a bottom bracket that braces in the drip edge, 2) a threaded hole on the table surface or a third possibility which seems to improbable to mention further.

I see the utility of the vises and what I imagine are your shop-built jaws.

Some time spent on Heinrich's site suggests that your table clamping devise is attached to the arm of a #13-WH Safety Drill Vise. Am I right that you made the jaws, or are they a catalog item? As depicted, they look very useful for clamping things in a variety of positions.

The other vise appears to be a #3-TS 3" Flat Side Quick Grip Drill Press Vise. No cast lugs/mounting on the sides like the SV & PA models shown on the company website.

That set up is going to make drilling more pleasant.

.

dockterj
09-23-2016, 09:34 AM
I have the same vise and find it very quick and easy to set up and use. I haven't made an anchor clamp yet - I just rotate the back arm so it is positioned against the column on the side that resists rotation (the left side of the column). It doesn't prevent the work lifting up but so far that has not been enough of a problem for me to make the time to build an anchor clamp. The jaws on becksmachine's look the same as mine although a bit thicker. Perhaps because it is new and mine is of unknown vintage.

I do like how he has the anchor bracket on the side instead of the back of the table. That keeps the guide rods going side to side where they are less likely to grab you as you walk by the press and go flying to the ground or (if anchored) take a chunk of flesh out of your side.

becksmachine
09-23-2016, 10:52 AM
I like the hex on the adapter to provide a seat for the set screw to bear against. I haven't come across that approach before. Some might quibble about the redundancy - let 'em.

Is there a threaded hole at the very edge of the table, adjacent to the T-slot? Is this and the hole inboard that appears to have an insert the 'two locations' mentioned in the OP? The outboard location seems so close to the edge I puzzled over whether there is 1) a bottom bracket that braces in the drip edge, 2) a threaded hole on the table surface or a third possibility which seems to improbable to mention further.

I see the utility of the vises and what I imagine are your shop-built jaws.

Some time spent on Heinrich's site suggests that your table clamping devise is attached to the arm of a #13-WH Safety Drill Vise. Am I right that you made the jaws, or are they a catalog item? As depicted, they look very useful for clamping things in a variety of positions.

The other vise appears to be a #3-TS 3" Flat Side Quick Grip Drill Press Vise. No cast lugs/mounting on the sides like the SV & PA models shown on the company website.

That set up is going to make drilling more pleasant.

.

Just can't get anything past you guys can I? :)


Is there a threaded hole at the very edge of the table, adjacent to the T-slot? Is this and the hole inboard that appears to have an insert the 'two locations' mentioned in the OP?


Yes, I drilled and tapped two holes at the rear of the table for the anchor clamp bolt. As the table is somewhat thin in these locations, I made the holes oversize to allow installation of a threaded insert. Hopefully this will allow a longer period of time between when the threads for the clamp bolt get stripped and allow for replacement when they do.

The hole in the corner of the table is as close to the edge/corner of the table as I could drill with the spindle without unbolting the table from the machine. Because this hole was drilled with the spindle of the machine, it is fairly square to the surface of the table. The hole closer to the column was drilled and tapped freehand, it's perpendicularity suffers somewhat.


Some time spent on Heinrich's site suggests that your table clamping devise is attached to the arm of a #13-WH Safety Drill Vise. Am I right that you made the jaws, or are they a catalog item? As depicted, they look very useful for clamping things in a variety of positions.

Yes, that is the vise, and yes I made the jaws.

The supplied jaws had a much smaller step. I thought this was less secure and didn't allow for a very deep "V" for holding cylindrical work in a vertical orientation.

Because it takes about 5 seconds to completely remove the clamped down vise from the table, and approximately the same amount of time for re-installation, it is likely that this will contribute to increased wear and tear on the brooms and brushes used to clean the table, as sweeping with a vise mounted on a drill bit held in the chuck will occur with less frequency. :rolleyes:

Dave

EddyCurr
09-23-2016, 11:26 AM
Any modification that increases wear on bristles of table brushes and floor brooms is a good one.

What would you say in favour or against a variation where instead of threading the location holes, they are left as drilled and a Ball-Lok style of Pip Pin/Quick Release is used to anchor the vise arm? Threading offers utility for other purposes, QR pins have their benefits. Could there be much vise lift that positive clamping off near the middle/end of the fulcrum arm would help much with?

I know what you mean about the tables: the undersides of some are cast in a manner to reduce the amount of mass. Aside from stiffening ribs, the bottom contour closely follows the top and the end result is a table that isn't nearly as meaty as appearance might otherwise suggest.

.

EddyCurr
09-23-2016, 11:29 AM
I should build a couple of sturdy column protectors like yours, too.

.

J Tiers
09-23-2016, 12:16 PM
Never used that type vise on a drill press. The big one I have had it as an option, but I didn't get it.

What do they do against the work lifting up? That seems to be as much of an issue as the part spinning.

I just use a regular quick action DP vise bolted to the table of an X-Y setup, so it is about as proof against spinning AND lifting as I can make it.

MichaelP
09-23-2016, 01:46 PM
I just use a regular quick action DP vise bolted to the table of an X-Y setup, so it is about as proof against spinning AND lifting as I can make it. How much of the vertical space is eaten by your X-Y table, Jerry? Any photos, by chance?

dockterj
09-23-2016, 01:53 PM
Dave how did you attach the all thread to the 3/4" adapter?

Your jaws look great!

J Tiers
09-23-2016, 06:36 PM
How much of the vertical space is eaten by your X-Y table, Jerry? Any photos, by chance?

With 4 to 5 feet of vertical space, I just don't care very much about that. The table sets a little lower and all is well. But maybe 6 inches, dunno. Photo I'd likely have to take.

MichaelP
09-23-2016, 09:52 PM
Got it. Thank you.

wierdscience
09-24-2016, 01:32 AM
Nice!I am so stealing that idea!

becksmachine
09-24-2016, 07:32 AM
Dave how did you attach the all thread to the 3/4" adapter?

Your jaws look great!

Hi dockterj, Thanks! It is amazing how fast I can make a BIG mess with aluminum!

The 3/4" all thread piece just has a 1/2" - 20 drilled and tapped hole in it.

I just screwed the 1/2" piece tight against the incomplete thread in the blind hole to retain it, you could use Loctite instead.

Dave

becksmachine
09-24-2016, 08:00 AM
Any modification that increases wear on bristles of table brushes and floor brooms is a good one.

Threading offers utility for other purposes, QR pins have their benefits. Could there be much vise lift that positive clamping off near the middle/end of the fulcrum arm would help much with?



What would you say in favour or against a variation where instead of threading the location holes, they are left as drilled and a Ball-Lok style of Pip Pin/Quick Release is used to anchor the vise arm?

It might work ok, it would be no worse than the scenario that dockterj describes, and that I have used also, where the bar is just allowed to rotate around the spindle axis until it bears against the column.

That said, I wouldn't like it. It isn't obvious from the photo, but I also used a needle thrust bearing between the stud/t-handle assembly and the clamp to achieve as much clamping force as possible to prevent rotation of the arm around the clamp. This helps limit the forces that want to push the drill sideways while the un-restrained arm resists the rotation of the whole vise/workpiece assembly.

And it probably does a better job of resisting the uplift forces also.


I know what you mean about the tables: the undersides of some are cast in a manner to reduce the amount of mass. Aside from stiffening ribs, the bottom contour closely follows the top and the end result is a table that isn't nearly as meaty as appearance might otherwise suggest.


Yes, and it can be a minefield when trying to decide where to put a hole when you discover that your preferred hole location ends up being half on a rib and half on a thin section. :(

Dave

J Tiers
09-24-2016, 09:49 AM
Still kinda wonder about those vises vs lift-up forces. And they generally look to have thin "stalks" over to the support point. When something grabs, it usually grabs hard, and it looks as if the thin stalk" might bend. Still better than it spinning and chewing up your hand, but....... ??


How much of the vertical space is eaten by your X-Y table, Jerry? Any photos, by chance?

Here yah go. Atlas 1800. I'm still looking for a pulley cover for it. The pulley is above head height, but still is near hands when reaching for the feed handles.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/machines/Drill%20press/Atlas%20Clausing%20DP%20table_zpsuhawvbpt.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/machines/Drill%20press/Atlas%20Clausing%20DP%20table_zpsuhawvbpt.jpg.html )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/machines/Drill%20press/Atlas%20Clausing%20DP_zpsofou7q2j.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/machines/Drill%20press/Atlas%20Clausing%20DP_zpsofou7q2j.jpg.html)

EddyCurr
09-24-2016, 10:01 AM
Is that small pulley under the beehive functional, or does it serve as a spacer?

.

MichaelP
09-24-2016, 10:26 AM
Thanks you for the photos, Jerry. Is it something like 12"x6"? Do you have to lock the table, or it's heavy enough to mask the backlash?

J Tiers
09-24-2016, 11:15 AM
Dunno about pulley, could use it for a feed drive, I suppose. Does nothing now.

About 12 x 6 yes. It's a chinese cheapie, so it already takes dynamite to move it.... it's a real door prize. I never lock it, no locks on it, but I suppose I could set it up with handles on a couple screws and it would friction lock OK.

You can see why daylight is no issue.

Seastar
09-24-2016, 11:17 AM
To the OP----
That "vise" has got to be the weirdest looking awkward device I have ever seen on this forum.
Who makes it and what is it called?
I have two drill presses and one has an x/y vise and the other a small loose vise that can be clamped with a C clamp.
Why do you need that thing?
Not trying to insult you or start an argument--- just curious about the utility of that vise that looks very, very complicated.
Bill

EddyCurr
09-24-2016, 11:39 AM
Who makes it and what is it called?
Discussed in Post #4

.

J Tiers
09-24-2016, 12:02 PM
To the OP----
That "vise" has got to be the weirdest looking awkward device I have ever seen on this forum.
....
Why do you need that thing?
Not trying to insult you or start an argument--- just curious about the utility of that vise that looks very, very complicated.
Bill

They are good. As an easy to use vise that is always on the drill press, so no excuse not to use it. I see folks (including my FIL) holding little parts by hand when they drill, which I value my fingers too much to do. That vise lets you hold and maneuver a small part with less risk of it spinning and tearing your hand up.

No idea about that specific one, but most are designed to be easy to use in order to leave no excuse whatever for not using it. That way there is never an issue with the lawyers, you provided a means, which was not prohibitively clumsy, to avoid the injury their client (your dumb as a brick employee) sustained due to NOT using what you provided. They generally are not bad to use. And you can hold a nicer vise in them, as in the later pics. Kinda like my vise on the X-Y.

Bottom line, they are useful, and keep OSHA happy.

I have always wondered about the long stalk vs a powerful drill, though.

enl
09-24-2016, 01:14 PM
Another make is Float Vise. They are handy, the long tail keeps the thing from spinning, and allows rapid positioning and locking right on position in a low profile. Clamping with a C clamp tends to be difficult to hit the mark dead on, as the vise tends to shift as the clamp is tightened, and it can be tough to get a clamping location that is good without fiddling on many tables due to the ribbing underneath. These vises work in the sequence a) hold part b) locate, c) easy lock with no fiddling or shift, d) drill. Maybe 10 seconds to locate and start drilling, the next hole on the same surface is faster. Locating on a punch mark can be as close to dead on as you get with a drill press.

MichaelP
09-24-2016, 01:16 PM
To the OP----
That "vise" has got to be the weirdest looking awkward device I have ever seen on this forum.
Who makes it and what is it called?
I have two drill presses and one has an x/y vise and the other a small loose vise that can be clamped with a C clamp.
Why do you need that thing?
Not trying to insult you or start an argument--- just curious about the utility of that vise that looks very, very complicated.
Bill


This type of vises is very convenient for drill press use. After you put your part in the vise, it takes just a few seconds to locate the punch mark below the drill tip. Then you tighten the T-handle to fix the vise in place and proceed with drilling.

By the way, my main concern why I stayed away from the cross slide tables was that they don't allow for a quick and easy positioning of an existing hole or punch mark directly under the drill.

This is my Float-Lock vise. It holds very well and doesn't move or lift during drilling.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/MPdisp/Float-Lock.jpg~original (http://s966.photobucket.com/user/MPdisp/media/Float-Lock.jpg.html)

becksmachine
09-25-2016, 09:11 PM
To the OP----
That "vise" has got to be the weirdest looking awkward device I have ever seen on this forum.
Who makes it and what is it called?
I have two drill presses and one has an x/y vise and the other a small loose vise that can be clamped with a C clamp.
Why do you need that thing?
Not trying to insult you or start an argument--- just curious about the utility of that vise that looks very, very complicated.
Bill

A very legitimate question.

I will admit it takes some getting used to, but as mentioned in previous posts, it is a very quick and easy for positioning and set up.





I have always wondered about the long stalk vs a powerful drill, though.

It is true, it certainly has a less than robust appearance. In this model, the long "stalk" is a piece of 5/8" square keystock that is allen head screwed and doweled to the corner of one jaw.

I had been trying to think of some way to demonstrate The following photos will hopefully help to quantify this aspect. The three pieces of mild steel keystock are 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2". I had to bend a tail on them to prevent them from spinning in the vise jaws.

The 1/4" and 3/8" sizes were rather uneventful and well within the capabilities of the unit, with significant but tolerable deflection. The were both twisted with the drill press in what would be considered "open belt mode" which is where this press is run 95% of the time.

The 1/2 piece was something of a nail biter, beyond what I would consider the useful capabilities of the unit, but resulted in no permanent damage. This required the press to be in "back gear" mode as it would stall in open gear mode. This drill press has a #4 morse taper spindle and is capable of occasional 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" holes in steel. I was somewhat more concerned about attachment of the stalk to the jaw rather than the stalk itself.

I think it would be easily capable of stalling just about any "belt only" style drill press, use with caution in your 6' arm radial drill.

:)

Dave

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Keystock%20twist/IMG_2948.jpg

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/becksmachine/Keystock%20twist/IMG_2949.jpg

Puckdropper
09-25-2016, 11:13 PM
This type of vises is very convenient for drill press use. After you put your part in the vise, it takes just a few seconds to locate the punch mark below the drill tip. Then you tighten the T-handle to fix the vise in place and proceed with drilling.

By the way, my main concern why I stayed away from the cross slide tables was that they don't allow for a quick and easy positioning of an existing hole or punch mark directly under the drill.

This is my Float-Lock vise. It holds very well and doesn't move or lift during drilling.
*snip: picture*


That looks ideal for drill press use. I found some that cost twice as much as my DP did. Any suggestions where to look for one more reasonably priced? $100 is more like what I'm thinking.

dockterj
09-25-2016, 11:28 PM
Got mine on Ebay for $60 IIRC. Of course not as pretty as Dave's but still has a lot of life left in it.

MichaelP
09-26-2016, 01:06 AM
That looks ideal for drill press use. I found some that cost twice as much as my DP did. Any suggestions where to look for one more reasonably priced? $100 is more like what I'm thinking.I've got mine for $40 from a fellow machinist on PM. It came without the table clamping assembly, so I just had to make one.

New Wahlstrom Float-Lock or Heinrich Safety Drill vises are up to about $250-$300 now.

enl
09-26-2016, 07:08 AM
That looks ideal for drill press use. I found some that cost twice as much as my DP did. Any suggestions where to look for one more reasonably priced? $100 is more like what I'm thinking.

As others mentioned, they can be had used for reasonable cost, if you are willing to wait for the right deal. I got mine out of the dumpster when a local school scrapped the shops a number of years ago. Machines went to auction, some tools went to auction, some went into the dumpster with the busted up drywall and fireproofing. Note that you are likely to need to make parts, as they often seem to be missing the table clamp, and mine was missing a a lock pin for the fixed jaw. Neither hard to make.

Another option would be to make one. A round bar style with screw closure and a screw lock for the fixed jaw shouldn't be too hard to fab up.

Tony Ennis
09-26-2016, 08:04 AM
One day I needed a washer with a 3/4" outer diameter. At the time I only had some woodworking tools. A penny is 3/4" in diameter, but I didn't use a penny. Defacing currency would be wrong. But I found a copper/zinc slug of the right size and decided to use that. Now, holding a slug while drilling a hole through it would be unsafe, so I grabbed it with vice grips. Now my fingers were safe! Yay! As I withdrew the drill, the drill pulled up, the wrist rotated to match, the drill grabbed. The drill press pulled the vice grips out of my hand. They disengaged from the slug in time to be propelled straight into my ribcage at speed.

I didn't do that again, I can tell you.

So yeah, the OP's vise is interesting.

J Tiers
09-26-2016, 10:04 AM
Yours at 5/8" sounds good. For anything biggish in drills a person would want to clamp down the work anyhow.

Others I have seen have had pretty small arms. The one I turned down appeared to be 3/8", as I recall.

Sun God
09-26-2016, 11:48 AM
Straight from the Shop made tools thread: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/39202-Shop-Made-Tools?p=919869#post919869

Fairly sure I've seen another one of these builds that involved copious amounts of orange paint.