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View Full Version : OT: Chevy and more Gm going to china



GEP
09-23-2016, 08:11 PM
I hope this is a joke. All i ever owned was GM cars and trucks


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

MikeL46
09-23-2016, 11:05 PM
I don't know. Isn't Buick the best selling large car in China? How would you feel if sales in China kept GM afloat so they could continue to make some cars in the US?

Mike

PStechPaul
09-23-2016, 11:42 PM
The video is from 2012, and seems to be politically motivated with mentions of Obama and Romney (while Trump and Hillary are off the radar). Here are some facts (as far as they are purported to be):

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/is-gm-becoming-china-motors/

The video seems to have a very strong ant-Communist theme. It laments how powerful government officials and Communist upper echelons of industry are decimating the hard-working middle class by encouraging purchases of Buicks and Cadillacs as status symbols. That could be equally applied to the US.

wierdscience
09-24-2016, 12:39 AM
The relevant question now is,will the Chicom bosses continue support GM's unfunded pension losses?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/gm-to-issue-debt-to-shore-up-u-s-hourly-workers-pension-plan

The answer will be no.

Will GM keep it's US plants open in the long term?The answer to that one is most likely no as well.

http://qz.com/594984/the-secret-history-of-gms-chinese-bailout/

The tell tale is what has happened elsewhere-

The importation of the Buick Envision will be the first major US-market impact of GM’s Chinese realignment, but at GM’s outposts in Korea and Australia the pain is being felt far more directly. In 2013 GM announced that it would end all production at its Australian division Holden, replacing the fiercely independent development and production center with a lineup of imported models. As late as 2003, GM executives said Holden’s last unique vehicle the Commodore—which was imported to the US as the 2004-6 Pontiac GTO—could be exported to China; by 2017 that car will in fact be made in China and exported to Australia, where all that remains of Holden is a sales and service operation.
GMDAT was renamed GM Korea in 2011 “to reflect its heightened status in global operations of GM” according to GM’s official announcement, but the name change seemed to have the exact opposite effect. Having once provided the core technology behind many of GM’s most successful China-market products, GM Korea has lost its status as GM’s emerging-market “home room” to Shanghai-GM’s new joint emerging-market vehicle platform. In 2013, when GM decided to stop selling the Chevrolet brand in Europe, a market that accounted for more than 20% of GM Korea’s production disappeared almost overnight. Having kept GMDAT afloat for years with billions in Korea Development Bank loans, Koreans now find themselves swallowing bitter layoffs and preparing for likely plant closures.

The reason they haven't begun transferring physical assets across the Pacific so far,is because their US operations allow them access to technology via GM manufacturing partnerships they otherwise would not have access to.This includes advanced manufacturing and even defense technology.

winchman
09-24-2016, 01:12 AM
The new C7 Corvette, "America's Sports Car", uses this fuel door lock solenoid.

http://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1130/80-fueldoorsolenoidtext_2854a3b1c6b873965d8337fc2de0e e38d26b9c57.jpg

Notice the bottom line on the tag.

wierdscience
09-24-2016, 01:27 AM
Assembled in China *with parts and materials sourced from one of the following countries* Mexico,Honduras,India,Shri Lanka,Indonesia,Brasil,Ecuador,Pakistan,Spain,Gree ce,France,Turkey,Cuba,and a few more that don't have a name because the latest junta has yet to cement control over the local militias.

Tim Clarke
09-24-2016, 11:39 AM
I've owned GM cars for many years. Always Ford trucks. Both have been a mixture of US and import parts for many years now. I do hate to see that production is moving away from the US, however it's a world wide economy. It makes me wonder what the future of our next generations will be. Will Americans standard of living have to be lowered to the level of the emerging countries in order to compete globally?

GEP
09-24-2016, 01:16 PM
The ting that bothers me here i am a loyal Gm consumer and now there is this chance of having china made us cars, all the employees will be out of a job.
I guess i may have to consider Ford. As far as the Corvette i all ways owned one had as many 3 at one time. I was thinking of buying a new twin turbo. Not if china is involved may look at the Ford GT

GEP
09-24-2016, 01:17 PM
The ting that bothers me here i am a loyal Gm consumer and now there is this chance of having china made us cars, all the employees will be out of a job.
I guess i may have to consider Ford. As far as the Corvette i all ways owned one had as many 3 at one time. I was thinking of buying a new twin turbo. Not if china is involved may look at the Ford GT

A.K. Boomer
09-24-2016, 01:20 PM
GEP are you going to hold out for the engine mid-ship model?

BCRider
09-24-2016, 01:29 PM
I've owned GM cars for many years. Always Ford trucks. Both have been a mixture of US and import parts for many years now. I do hate to see that production is moving away from the US, however it's a world wide economy. It makes me wonder what the future of our next generations will be. Will Americans standard of living have to be lowered to the level of the emerging countries in order to compete globally?

Look around at what has happened over the last few decades. Steel production industry in North America? A thin shadow of what it used to be. Automotive production? Just look at what has happened in "Motor City". Lowered standard of living? Look at the curve for folks that are living below the poverty line for the last few decades and how it's ramping upwards.

I hate to say it but the soap bubble is expanding. It's a slow process but it's happening. North America can only run on momentum for so long and then it'll bust. The only way to avoid it may be to lower the wage levels of some trades in North America to more closely match the rest of the world so that some of the plants and work can come back to these shores.

GEP
09-24-2016, 01:34 PM
GEP are you going to hold out for the engine mid-ship model?

That may be the one to have

GEP
09-24-2016, 01:38 PM
Look around at what has happened over the last few decades. Steel production industry in North America? A thin shadow of what it used to be. Automotive production? Just look at what has happened in "Motor City". Lowered standard of living? Look at the curve for folks that are living below the poverty line for the last few decades and how it's ramping upwards.

I hate to say it but the soap bubble is expanding. It's a slow process but it's happening. North America can only run on momentum for so long and then it'll bust. The only way to avoid it may be to lower the wage levels of some trades in North America to more closely match the rest of the world so that some of the plants and work can come back to these shores.

Yes most auto parts are made in china, what a shame.

A.K. Boomer
09-24-2016, 01:42 PM
And possibly the last to go to china - I know the high end bike frames kinda work that way - the performance flagships are the last to go due to people still willing to pay the extra it takes to keep them built here ---- Im interested in hearing about the New Vette esp. the engine mid-ship one - not that I could ever afford one but one can always dream and yeah same goes for the Ford GT

GEP
09-24-2016, 06:14 PM
Boomer
I had a 1972 LT1 corvette i bought new for $ 5,200.00 that was the last year for solid lifter cams when that baby ran it sounded like a sports car. I sold it about 7 years ago for 8 times more. I didn't have air because i wanted all the power i could get on the wheel's, i miss that car. So now i am ready to buy my last one new. My wife said i was nuts because of my age, i told her well i am still breathing.

Spin Doctor
09-24-2016, 07:47 PM
I hate to say this but if we as a nation want a strong industrial portion of our economy we have to change our attitudes. Far too oftrn we as a nation care more about the price than the effects of what that purchase means. Say we are looking for a new coffee maker to replace that 30 year old Mr Coffee. Are you going to buy the one made in China for say thrity bucks or the one made here for 45 (if you could find one). If the one made here lasts twice as long in the long run its cheaper. Plus the money stays here to some degree. Now a coofee maker is only an example. But I know if I buy something made here that people here were involved in its production and spent their wages in the economy here. Most peope in the US only look at the price. The lower the price the happier they are. Some of this comes from the fact we all love a bargin. I think some of this comes from the fact that most people are completely disconnected from any manufacturing period. They have totally bought into the "post-industrial" and "service economy" BS. At the same time look at a country like Germany. Definitly First World. Yet from the experience I've had talking to Germans (and other Europeans) at work is they are more than happy to pay extra for products built/made there. Because they know friends, neighbors and relatives work for these companies. And those individuals also purchase goods and services they may provide and make. The US as a whole could care less. I'll give an example of three products in the same industry. The premier manufacturer of colored pencils in be US used to be Prismacolor. In Germany the top brands are Faber-Castell and Lyra. Prices were fairly equal. All three were an excellent product. Prismacolor production was moved to Mexico in order to lower costs (not prices though) and quality suffered. The German companies still produce in Germany, have maintained their outstanding quality and are still competetively priced. I'm sure the reasons are more than just some of the ones I bring up. But don't scoff just because its three companies making colored pencils. Its a product that involves industrial chemistry, precision manufacturing and mass production. The industrial chemistry comes in with the production of the pigments and the bonding of them into the carrying media, typically wax or oil. The better brands are all pretty much oh based media. Guess which of the three brands mentioned use oil based. I'll give you a hint, they don't start with a "P". The precision manufacturing comes in the the production of the pencil body itself. The production of pencils is probably the industry that formed the basis of mass precision production. There is a book written by a Professor of Engineering from Renseller Institute nnamed Henry Petrofsky called "The Pencil". https://www.amazon.com/Pencil-History-Design-Circumstance/dp/0679734155 Its an industry that saw the first case of state sponsored industrial research for a substance to replace one no longer available. The development of precision machining technology for mass production. Plus the sourcing of raw materials to ensure the highest quality. Tnink about a common #2B wooden pencil. And the demands madeon such a common mundane product. This time year you probably get a package of 10 for around a dollar in the US. Yet the " lead", a comination of graphite and clays must not only provide an easily abraded material that allowseasy writing or drawing it also has to be sufficently strong to stand up to both normal use and a pencil sharpener. The casing must be made in two halves in such a way that the extruded leads fit their grooves perfectly and are not loose when the casing is glued together. Plus the casing must be made in such a way that the two halves match when mated together and the lead is centered in the body of the pencil. A common item that is a triumph of engineering.

PS, one of the idols of the people involved in environmental movements, varoius political movements and civil disobediance is of course Henry David Thoreau of On Walden Pond. His family derived there income from the production of pencils

PStechPaul
09-24-2016, 09:34 PM
You mentioned Henry David Thoreau, and one of the principles he championed with his Walden experiment was the minimum requirements for sustaining ones life. Things are somewhat different now, but there are things that can be learned from his ideas and experiences. Each one of us needs air, water, and food, of course. In addition to that, we may need clothing, housing, and medical care, depending on our environment and health. Anything else may be considered optional, although perhaps required to live a certain lifestyle or "standard of living" we may choose. But there are many people who barely have the first three, and only rudimentary versions of the second three.

Over the Labor Day weekend I had the opportunity of attending a 3-day "Communities Conference" hosted by Twin Oaks (http://www.twinoakscommunity.org/), which is an intentional community of about 100 people in Louisa, VA, started about 50 years ago and still thriving. They are mostly self-sufficient, having enough land to support growing food and trees for firewood and lumber, with solar panels and battery storage of electricity. They also provide lifetime medical and hospice care for all residents. Everyone is expected to work in the community an equivalent of about 40 hours a week, for which everyone gets water, food, and housing, plus a monetary stipend for unrestricted personal use. Most work is done within the community, so commuting consists of walking, bicycling, or using small electric vehicles. Most residents seem very happy and stress-free.

This lifestyle may not appeal to everyone, but it has many advantages over the "normal" suburban lifestyle and the corporate "rat-race". An intimate environment built upon sharing, cooperation, and consensus in decision-making is very healthy, and results in a very low per-capita "footprint" in terms of resource usage. I would estimate that the per capita expenditure may be less than the equivalent of a $10/hour job, and yet be much more pleasant than what could be afforded by such income in a conventional urban, suburban, or rural environment.

It is even possible for an individual to live quite comfortably on a similar income. Personally, now that I am semi-retired, I receive about $1400/month SSA, and $500/month salary from my small business. So about $23,000 a year. My major expenses for 2015 were about $2200 automotive, $3000 food (including beer), $500 heating fuel (wood), $300 gasoline, $850 home improvements, $8500 medical and dental (including insurance), $1400 pets, $2000 phone, TV, and ISP, $4000 property tax, $450 recreation and restaurants, $800 tools and materials, and $1400 for utilities (electricity). About $25,000 total. If I had other people sharing my resources, per capita expense would be drastically reduced, probably below $10,000 per person. Also my medical expenses included about $4000 for dental work, and I had a major spine operation that was only partially covered by Medicare.

You may notice that I do not show any mortgage payments, car/truck payments, or credit card interest. And my cell phone is only about $90/year. I have fully owned my house(s) and vehicle(s) for the last 20 years, and I purchase almost everything using Discover Card paid in full each month, usually well under $1000. I drive less than 5,000 miles a year and at 35 MPG I get by with $300 in gas. I have been self-employed for over 25 years, doing work I enjoy, with no boss yelling at me and usually no alarm clock to rouse me from sleep, so my stress level is pretty low, and I can enjoy life when and how I wish. What's that worth? Priceless!