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View Full Version : OT: Was this saw made in China?



Dave C
11-01-2016, 12:54 PM
Like I needed another project. Wife thinks I'm nuts, but I took on this pos table saw anyway. Its a Craftsman, 113.298032, and I wish I knew how old it is. It's a mess, and lived in a storage shed since last used 5 years ago. It's rusty, dirty, loaded with dirt dauber nests, and in general appears to have been the victim of abuse. I neglected to take a picture before tearing it down, but here are some to give you the idea:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Alliycat/b42796f8-21b1-4ec8-ae0c-7d42a3f5b633.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Alliycat/media/b42796f8-21b1-4ec8-ae0c-7d42a3f5b633.jpg.html)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Alliycat/DSC00299.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Alliycat/media/DSC00299.jpg.html)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Alliycat/DSC00298.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Alliycat/media/DSC00298.jpg.html)

Dave C
11-01-2016, 01:00 PM
This is after about an hour with a wire cup brush on the big angle grinder, and scraping, and wiping down with mineral spirits.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Alliycat/DSC00296.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Alliycat/media/DSC00296.jpg.html)

Why I suspect it was made in China. This is the arbor casting with foundry sand in the cavity between the bearing recesses:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/Alliycat/DSC00294.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Alliycat/media/DSC00294.jpg.html)
The bearings were sealed, but they were shot. Maybe some fine grit got past the seals.

Doozer
11-01-2016, 01:23 PM
Made by Emerson electric.

-D

Doozer
11-01-2016, 01:25 PM
In USA.

-D

Dave C
11-01-2016, 02:00 PM
Yeah, St. Louis, but I wonder where they got their castings from? There was a lot of industry there when I was living there in the late '60s. Must have been at least one foundry. I don't know if Emerson had their own though.

Fasttrack
11-01-2016, 02:36 PM
Why I suspect it was made in China. This is the arbor casting with foundry sand in the cavity between the bearing recesses:

America is capable of producing crap products just like anywhere else. We just don't do it as cheaply!

I can't speak to this part specifically, but I've seen castings coming out of a USA foundry that had huge gas voids, sand inclusions, etc. in them. And this was for parts going on an aircraft carrier! Needless to say, we switched foundries, but the point is: made in USA is no guarantee of quality.

Dave C
11-01-2016, 02:42 PM
I found the owners manual on line, and it was printed in 1984. So that makes the saw about 32 years old.

sasquatch
11-01-2016, 02:48 PM
Agree with Doozer! Emerson.

GEP
11-01-2016, 04:14 PM
I found the owners manual on line, and it was printed in 1984. So that makes the saw about 32 years old.

Dave contact this guy WA5CAB@cs.com his name is Robert he knows a lot about craftsman power tools. He is mostly into craftsman/atlas lathes but he help me with certain craftsman parts, don't hurt to try.

Dave C
11-02-2016, 01:08 AM
Thanks GEP, I'll give him a shout. Meanwhile I'll be setting up the electrolysis tank to derust some of these parts.

CarlByrns
11-05-2016, 06:24 PM
Built by Emerson Electric. They made millions of them and aren't worth 'restoring'.

if the table was rusted at all, the slots for the miter gage will be too wide- the saw will never cut a perfect 90 degree crosscut.

You can find well-cared for examples on CL for $100- $150.

FYI-The foundry was in Ann Arbor. The same one that did the castings for the Craftsman 109.

Arcane
11-05-2016, 07:02 PM
Built by Emerson Electric. They made millions of them and aren't worth 'restoring'.

if the table was rusted at all, the slots for the miter gage will be too wide- the saw will never cut a perfect 90 degree crosscut.

You can find well-cared for examples on CL for $100- $150.

FYI-The foundry was in Ann Arbor. The same one that did the castings for the Craftsman 109.

Well then...that's a real good excuse to make a table saw sled. I'm sure there's relatively easy methods to tighten up the stock runner, too.

Dave C
11-05-2016, 07:06 PM
Built by Emerson Electric. They made millions of them and aren't worth 'restoring'.

if the table was rusted at all, the slots for the miter gage will be too wide- the saw will never cut a perfect 90 degree crosscut.

You can find well-cared for examples on CL for $100- $150.

FYI-The foundry was in Ann Arbor. The same one that did the castings for the Craftsman 109.

It came from CL, and was less than $100. The miter gage slots are in pretty good shape, and besides that, I don't plan to be making precision parts with this saw.
The eBay chinese bearings came today, and they look and feel pretty good. I think they will suit my purposes just fine.

CarlByrns
11-05-2016, 07:54 PM
I'm sure there's relatively easy methods to tighten up the stock runner, too.

That depends on if the slots are evenly worn along their length or not. Usually the right slot is somewhat tapered because, just like a lathe, all the action happens in one area.

Sure, you can make a wider runner but then both slots has to have the same width along their length for the runner to fit end-to-end. That's a big milling job.


Well then...that's a real good excuse to make a table saw sled.

A sled is only as good as the slots it rides in. Anything less than parallel and the sled will bind.

CarlByrns
11-05-2016, 08:09 PM
It came from CL, and was less than $100. The miter gage slots are in pretty good shape, and besides that, I don't plan to be making precision parts with this saw.
The eBay chinese bearings came today, and they look and feel pretty good. I think they will suit my purposes just fine.

Just trying to save you some grief: I've been down this road before with a family heirloom table saw that sat in a dry barn for years and the slots were out-of-spec after derusting. Bottom line: the saw wasn't worth the time and effort to make it accurate. Believe me, we tried.


I don't plan to be making precision parts with this saw.

Making precision cuts is what table saws are all about. If the miter gage is off as little as .010 inch, you won't be able to cut anything to a true 90 and it will show. On my saw, I couldn't get a straight cut on a 2x4 that would be good enough for framing, much less trim. To put that into perspective, I could get a better cut with a hand-held circular saw than that table saw.

Measure twice, cut once.

Dave C
11-06-2016, 11:54 AM
Having been in the trade for 53 years, I've made some shop owner friends. If needed, the table can be Blanchard ground, and the slots milled oversize. No heel for a stepper.
I was not aware that anyone considered a Craftsman saw a precision tool.

tmarks11
11-06-2016, 05:10 PM
It would be worth time and money to try to resurrect a heavy duty cabinet saw.

But a cheap contractor table saw, with stamped steel wings? Not worth it. It wasn't a good saw when it was new.

Arcane
11-06-2016, 07:47 PM
........... On my saw, I couldn't get a straight cut on a 2x4 that would be good enough for framing, much less trim. To put that into perspective, I could get a better cut with a hand-held circular saw than that table saw.

Measure twice, cut once.

Seriously?

Doozer
11-07-2016, 12:44 PM
A child of a lesser God.

-D

Dave C
11-07-2016, 02:07 PM
A child of a lesser God.

-D

Amen brother!

boslab
11-07-2016, 02:36 PM
A friend in work had an old saw, we made a new top on a night shift out of 3/4 Tufnol sheet (stinks when cutting) he still has it, good thing is no rust.
You could put a new top on out of plastic, Ali, even laminate, doesn't have to be iron.
Mark

H380
11-07-2016, 03:22 PM
You can not buy a cast iron table belt drive contractor saw any longer. Simply not made. The new saws are all upside down glorified skill saws with "Direct drive". Absolutely worthless.

GNM109
11-07-2016, 04:39 PM
You can not buy a cast iron table belt drive contractor saw any longer. Simply not made. The new saws are all upside down glorified skill saws with "Direct drive". Absolutely worthless.


I have a 1971 Rockwell Contractor's 10" table saw. I bought it new in that year. It's belt driven with a 2 hp 240V TECF motor. I don't know why anyone would think that they were made in China.

I don't know if it's a precision saw according to some definition of same, but it will cut straight and was made in USA.

Dave C
11-07-2016, 05:57 PM
My reason's for buying this saw: For 40 years I have relied on a Craftsman radial arm saw. It does exactly what it was designed to do, and for the most part, I have been happy with it. That said, I am tired of getting a face full of sawdust every time I need to rip something. Not to mention the fact that rip cuts on a radial arm saw can be a hair raising experience. I am by no means a cabinet maker. My Father in law was a fantastic carpenter, and would tell anyone "Dave can make anything for you out of metal, but he'll turn your wood into kindling". No precision wood work will be going on by me in what's left of my lifetime.

JoeLee
11-07-2016, 06:02 PM
Looking a t this flimsy stand which is exactly like the stand my radial arm saw is on I'm going to say mid 80's.
During that era I have to say most parts were jobbed out to Taiwan.

JL..............

Dave C
11-07-2016, 06:05 PM
A friend in work had an old saw, we made a new top on a night shift out of 3/4 Tufnol sheet (stinks when cutting) he still has it, good thing is no rust.
You could put a new top on out of plastic, Ali, even laminate, doesn't have to be iron.
Mark

The last place where I worked used a lot of UHMW. A 1.5" thick slab of that stuff would make a great table, but the shop was sold and moved out of state. I doubt I could afford a piece from a supplier.

CarlByrns
11-08-2016, 12:13 PM
Seriously?

Seriously. The saw was good for sheet materials and not much else. The slots were rusted and worn enough that the miter gage would not sit at 90 degrees anywhere ahead of the blade and at the leading edge of the table the right one was out about .020 for the first several inches.

CarlByrns
11-08-2016, 12:15 PM
Looking a t this flimsy stand which is exactly like the stand my radial arm saw is on I'm going to say mid 80's.
During that era I have to say most parts were jobbed out to Taiwan.

JL..............

Sears started selling those stands circa 1974 and they don't get better with age. They put variations of them under everything- bandsaws, scroll saws, radial arm saws, and table saws. The single biggest improvement you can make to a Craftsman stationary tool is to build a real, solid, stand for it.

CarlByrns
11-08-2016, 12:22 PM
Not to mention the fact that rip cuts on a radial arm saw can be a hair raising experience.

If you're using the right blade (zero to negative rake), ripping is no more dangerous than on a table saw (which has it's own set of hazards).

oldwing
11-08-2016, 12:28 PM
You can not buy a cast iron table belt drive contractor saw any longer. Simply not made. The new saws are all upside down glorified skill saws with "Direct drive". Absolutely worthless.

My Sawstop contractor saw is belt driven with a cast iron top. Best saw I ever had.

Arcane
11-08-2016, 01:09 PM
Seriously. The saw was good for sheet materials and not much else. The slots were rusted and worn enough that the miter gage would not sit at 90 degrees anywhere ahead of the blade and at the leading edge of the table the right one was out about .020 for the first several inches.

So you can use a hand held circular saw and eyeball it to greater accuracy doing a 90o cut than possible on that table saw and hold a cut to less than plus or minus .010" deviation. Absolutely believable.

Dave C
11-08-2016, 04:19 PM
If you're using the right blade (zero to negative rake), ripping is no more dangerous than on a table saw (which has it's own set of hazards).

You've had either little or no experience using a radial arm saw. When ripping on a table saw, There is (or should be) little blade exposure, since most of the blade is below the table. With a RA saw the whole blade is in your face.

H380
11-08-2016, 05:49 PM
My Sawstop contractor saw is belt driven with a cast iron top. Best saw I ever had.
I stand corrected. The cheapest one starts at $1600. Does it make a used craftsman at $100 and some work look good?

CarlByrns
11-08-2016, 05:51 PM
You've had either little or no experience using a radial arm saw. When ripping on a table saw, There is (or should be) little blade exposure, since most of the blade is below the table. With a RA saw the whole blade is in your face.

You mean the RAS in my woodshop? The one I built my granddaughter's cradle with (in ash, BTW)? And (later) her play table? Would you like pictures? The RAS I recently used to rip several hundred feet of pine to 1X1? The RAS I used to build a portable camp kitchen out of 4mm Baltic birch sheet? That saw? Yeah, I actually have a lot of experience with one. The next project is going to be rebuilding a staircase.

BTW- I have both eyeballs and all ten fingers.


When ripping on a table saw, There is (or should be) little blade exposure, since most of the blade is below the table.

That's one of those stupid shop rules that is only sometimes true. Some sheet goods (melamine, thin ply) and some softwoods need more blade height: if the blade is too low, sheet material can be pushed out of the saw- 1 inch height is recommended for thin/sheet material. That will also cut down on chipping. Some softwoods need more blade height so the gullets clear the work, allowing better sawdust ejection and preventing burning.


With a RA saw the whole blade is in your face.

Only if you put your face near the blade. I don't.

You know, I posted about the miter slots as a friendly warning: I'm sorry you took it personally. Next time you post about some money pit you bought, I'll be sure to stay silent.

CarlByrns
11-08-2016, 05:59 PM
So you can use a hand held circular saw and eyeball it to greater accuracy doing a 90o cut than possible on that table saw and hold a cut to less than plus or minus .010" deviation. Absolutely believable.

Who said anything about eyeballing the cut? I use a speed square as a guide. Old contractor's trick.

The .010" slop was in the miter gage slot- when the distance from the slot to the blade and the width of the work is figured in, that slop stacks up to about 1/32" for a 2X4. That's not acceptable.

Dave C
11-09-2016, 12:32 PM
CarlByrns : You know, I posted about the miter slots as a friendly warning: I'm sorry you took it personally. Next time you post about some money pit you bought, I'll be sure to stay silent.
I never intended this thread to start a pi$$ing contest. The original question was posed more tongue in cheek than anything. I appreciate everyone's input with relative information about the saw, including your friendly warning about the miter slots. What I take exception to is the comments that buying the saw was a mistake. As to your "money pit" remark, I won't have much $ in it other than a few dollars for bearings and paint, and it will be just fine for chopping the end off the occasional broomstick, with the added advantage of not throwing sawdust in my face. Stay silent if that's your wish, but don't do it on my account. There is always something to be gained from reading peoples posts including yours.

oldwing
11-09-2016, 12:55 PM
I stand corrected. The cheapest one starts at $1600. Does it make a used craftsman at $100 and some work look good?

It won't cut my fingers off.

dan s
11-11-2016, 01:55 AM
It won't cut my fingers off.

It also won't do squat to protect you from the most common table saw related injury, kick back.