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goose
11-14-2016, 02:54 PM
Soliciting any opinions or experiences with Grizzly lathes, particularly the 13-40 and the 14-40 gunsmithing lathes, model # G0776 and G0709.
What concerns me is the weight (or lack of) and reports of flimsy stands and what effect that is on rigidity. Example; The 13 by 40 lathe lists a weight of 1280 lbs, which is not that much more than my Rockwell 11" lathe.

I know I can get more on the used market, but with a new Grizzly both plug and play condition as well as being able to whack the expense on a credit card appeal to me.



Thank you.

gambler
11-14-2016, 03:00 PM
a friend has one, leaks oil. otherwise he loves it. top heavy too.

Toolguy
11-14-2016, 03:24 PM
A friend of mine has one (14 x 40 G0709). We both think it is a good machine tool.

JCHannum
11-14-2016, 03:27 PM
IMHO, the Rockwell 11" lathe is one of the better of the homeshop lathes and is well suited to gunsmithing. Unless you absolutely need the additional swing, I question what you would gain from the expense of going to either of the Grizzly "gunsmith" lathes.

BCRider
11-14-2016, 04:15 PM
One thing you might gain is the size of the through hole in the spindle.

Unless things have changed a lot I'd say any of these import lathes needs to be treated as a partially finished kit loosely assembled for shipping convenience. You'll find dry gears where they should be greased or oiled and ground face edges you can shave with. And if it's anything like mine enough grinding grit or sand in all the parts that you'd swear the machines were assembled either in the foundry or in the wake of the various grinders used for the beds and other surfaces.

So assume nothing and inspect everything inside and out. If it's as bad as mine was you'll be looking at a full detail strip down and cleaning and then reassembly.

An example, the carriage apron was found to be clean and grit free (SURPRISE AND SHOCK) but totally dry. So I made up some feed gallery tubes for dispensing oil to the apron gears out of K&S brass tubing that came out to flared into place fittings that would accept the spout end of my oil can. Otherwise there was simply no way to get anything in there to lubricate those gears.

The quick change box had a pan like upper surface with drilled holes. The intent clearly being to squirt oil down the holes to lubricate the bearings and gear teeth. But the surface of the casting was heavy with loose grit or sand. So part of my mods were to mount up and mill clean this pan area then make up a handy tray that also acted as a lid for this distribution point.

I'm sure things are better in some ways and just as bad in others. But I'd advise that if you think it'll be a set it up and start using deal that you might be quite disappointed. If that does actually turn out to be the case then I suspect you got lucky. Or it says a lot for the QC requirements put forward to the makers by Grizzly.

You might also be interested in reading through the current running thread on making a filled concrete block stand which will be miles better than the tin thing that comes with it or which you need to buy at an additional cost.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/71916-Concrete-Lathe-Bench-(with-video)

Looking at pictures of the Rockwell 11x36 I'd say it's somewhat lighter built than my Asian 12x36. If the through hole in the spindle is large enough to accept most rifle barrels and you're simply finding that the lathe sings and dances around too much perhaps a heavy filled block base will provide you much of the same gains as we did. Or is the Rockwell simply worn so badly that it's hard to do proper work on it any longer?

The Artful Bodger
11-14-2016, 05:19 PM
That reminds me, I am going to change the oil in my Chinese 12x36 lathe headstock, qcgb and apron. Can someone please tell me where I can get the right sand for adding to the oil?

JCHannum
11-14-2016, 05:27 PM
The 11" Delta/Rockwell is a very robust lathe. I doubt the typical imports can duplicate the headstock's double tapered roller bearings and heavy gearing. It is a belt drive lathe, which can offer advantages in finish over a gear head. The spindle accepts 5C collets, 1-3/8"+ through bore. It had a dedicated fabricated steel base with an underneath drive.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/delta%20metal/page2.html

BCRider
11-14-2016, 05:38 PM
With a native 5C collet spindle and a 1.375" through hole I have to agree. If that thing ain't worn badly or other wise in dire straits I doubt if you're going to gain much at all with either of those Grizzly options.

The outside appearance of the head stock in the quick image search I did was misleading. It's a pretty compact outer size head stock and I didn't expect it to be as tightly filled as the cutaway from that link shows. Which lead me to believe that it might be a lighter construction.

Perhaps all your Rockwell needs is a good tune up? What is it doing that you dislike? Or is it actually just plain worn out?

38_Cal
11-14-2016, 05:42 PM
I have both a Rockwell 11x24 and an Enco 13x40 bench model, both bought used. The Enco has the ability to profile any rifle barrel I might wish, and will also cut metric with the proper change gears in place. I like the motor switch on the apron rather than reaching up to the switch on the Rockwell. The drive system on the Rockwell lets me tune the rpm for the job quickly and easily. If you can afford it, get the bigger of the Grizzly lathes and keep the Rockwell. I've had jobs set up where I needed to make a part for another project that came in, and have been able to whip out the new job without tearing down the first one.

Tony Ennis
11-14-2016, 06:35 PM
That reminds me, I am going to change the oil in my Chinese 12x36 lathe headstock, qcgb and apron. Can someone please tell me where I can get the right sand for adding to the oil?

All you need comes with the lathe. Just scoop it out of the bottom of whatever pan there is, and add it back to the fresh oil. Sometimes unscrupulous resellers will take the sand from lathes. Don't be foolish by adding common American play-sand. Insist on authentic Chinese foundry sand. Accept no substitutes!

Axkiker
11-14-2016, 07:29 PM
Another big Rockwell 11" fan. Great lathes that have a lot of great features some newer lathes dont seem to have.

sawlog
11-14-2016, 10:05 PM
I have the smaller Grizzly gunsmith lathe. While I like my lathe, the only real thing I don't care for is the top heavy nature of these machines. I have mine fastened to the floor and that helps

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

rws
11-15-2016, 07:45 AM
My first lathe was a 12x40 from MSC. I did a lot of work to get it where I wanted for barrel work. But the best thing I did was make a sturdy base for it, not the flimsy cabinet style bases that came with it.

smithdoor
11-15-2016, 09:39 AM
I look the space needed for a mill and a lathe
I larger lathe great for most work but space need is greater so if you a small shop space you may want to look at small lathes.
Back in 70's at a Machinery Dealer had a South Bend 9" x 18 cc with a 1 1/2" hole and sales man said use by gunsmiths so did need a larger lather for small shops.
I wish I had photo to on how they came by a 1 1/2 hole and did threading too.

Dave


Soliciting any opinions or experiences with Grizzly lathes, particularly the 13-40 and the 14-40 gunsmithing lathes, model # G0776 and G0709.
What concerns me is the weight (or lack of) and reports of flimsy stands and what effect that is on rigidity. Example; The 13 by 40 lathe lists a weight of 1280 lbs, which is not that much more than my Rockwell 11" lathe.

I know I can get more on the used market, but with a new Grizzly both plug and play condition as well as being able to whack the expense on a credit card appeal to me.



Thank you.

goose
11-15-2016, 10:34 AM
That reminds me, I am going to change the oil in my Chinese 12x36 lathe headstock, qcgb and apron. Can someone please tell me where I can get the right sand for adding to the oil?

Isn't that sand-oil mix the same as found in Chinese pet food ?

But, seriously, I was under the impression that the era of sand in the castings in Chinese machine tools was long since passed?

Anyways, I do apologize for any misunderstanding. When I originally posted the question about gunsmithing lathes it wasn't because I was interested in gunsmithing per say, rather, that's just how Grizzly Industrial markets almost all the metal lathes in that size-price range in their catalog.
What I'm looking for is a heavier, more accurate lathe to replace what I have. I figure an issue of mass, no wear and perhaps more features. For instance, a DRO, coolant pump, foot brake, etc. might be an improvement over my Rockwell 11". I'd probably keep the Rockwell as a backup.

pinstripe
11-15-2016, 10:44 AM
But, seriously, I was under the impression that the era of sand in the castings in Chinese machine tools was long since passed?

Not the ones they sell in Australia. Go to a machinery dealer and stick your hand under the bed. They might do a better job cleaning the gearbox castings, but the beds come with free Chinese sand.

BCRider
11-15-2016, 01:29 PM
I have to admit that my new knee mill purchased roughly a year ago now was remarkably free of sand. Even in areas that were not a big deal. So you may be right. But I wouldn't take the chance. I'd do some checking just in case.

Weight and bed cross section is a big factor. You've already indicated that the Rockwell is in the same weight range so I don't see a big improvement if you limit yourself to the 12x36. There may be some slight improvement with the 14x40 option. But the listed SHIPPING weight of 1440 suggests that you're still in the 1200lb range after the crate is set aside and weights of things like follow rest, steady rest and face plate are set to one side.

If you want a big and very noticeable step up from the Rockwell I suspect you'll need to look at their 16x40 that lists a shipping weight of over 5000 lbs. Or the South Bend SB1039F model that lists a shipping weight of 2500 so should be up in the 2000lb range or a hair over when sitting on the floor. This particular model with the current sale price is about 2.5 times as expensive. But at least it comes with a DRO in this package. But it's quite a bit more money for a name and a bit more metal.

Looking the South Bend models over in the showroom there's no doubt that they are a fair amount nicer in the attention to details. Not enough to justify the original prices they were asking. But at the current sale prices I think the improvements over the green models are closer to the added price.

I suspect that if you buy the Grizzly