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Mr Fixit
01-05-2017, 01:32 PM
Hello Group,

I just got this new used dividing head that was all in pieces and has 2 tail stocks. After cleaning it up and starting to reassemble it I have a question about the lubrication for the inside of the gear set. This one had a very little grease on the gears and that was it. What is recommended? There is a oil port button on the top that as far as I can figure is for the horizontal lock at the top. Iv'e never used one before but do want to learn how and maybe even do a project or 2 with it.

There are 2 tail stocks that came with it but are not the correct height for the dividing head when I put a dead center in it. The one is a B&S no 0 and the other is unidentified. The B&S is about 1/16" low and adjusts the center point angle a few degrees up or down when loosing 2 clamping bolts. The other is .75" low just horizontal movement, both measured with a ruler.
I'm asking for advice on what the best option is, do I machine a spacer plate to fill in the difference and then have it ground to exact thickness when I can get it measured accurately? Or is there another option?

The other thing is the B&S has a center that is ground off center and the no-name is on center. What is the reason for this? I google pic's and see them both ways. I figure that this dividing head will never be used (by me) in a close tolerance application so the tail stocks may be fine as found with proper shimming.

OK, long winded I know but what do you all knowledgeable forum followers and experts have to say.
PS. This maybe a gloat, I payed $50.00 for it all.

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris :)

BCRider
01-05-2017, 02:44 PM
GOOD SCORE! ! ! !

There's two height adjustments on the tail stocks. One is to loosen and shift the two bolts that lock the lower foot part to the upper part that holes the center. That's the coarse setting. And when you do that you'll want to do it in a way that ensures that the upper part is pretty close to parallel with the base. Then from there the last bit can be done with the eccentric travel of the center. But do try to do this in a way that the center is kept up high so you have the most clearance.

It's been a while since I set up my own tail stock but I used a mag base and dial gauge a lot along with a small pry bar and a little lump of brass bar stock to lever up then tap down the upper part of the body until things lined up height wise within a few thou and to within a thou for parallel. It's worth taking the time to get it right because you only need to do it once.

If the B&S is already at the top of the travel limit and it's only shy by 1/16" I'd say just mill out the slots by a little to give you the added rise you need. It's not critical so mill out around .03 more than you need to give yourself a touch of wiggle room.

Final alignment can be done with a between centers arbor or a test bar with two centers you make up just for this purpose. If using an arbor be aware that they are typically tapered over the length by a couple of thou. So measure both ends and when using the dial gauge to set the axis to parallel to the mill table that you make allowance for the taper amount on the gauge reading.

The other far shorter tail stock will obviously need a spacer of some form. But here again assuming it is the same two part upper and lower style design the spacer block does not need to be a precision sized part.

If either of these parts are not of the sort with bolted together upper and lower design then it sort of implies that they were supplied in a set with a different dividing head. If that is the case then you'll need some form of shim pad. Still, that's not the end of the world.

LARRYR
01-05-2017, 04:29 PM
good reply, you covered everything i dont need to add my 2 cents

Mr Fixit
01-05-2017, 04:31 PM
Hi BC rider,

Thanks for the info. Both of the tail stocks are fixed for vertical movement, but the B&S may have some slots on the inside piece I will check on that.
Can you give me any insight about lubricant for the gear part of the dividing head ?

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris. :)

duckman
01-05-2017, 04:36 PM
The off center center is to clear the top of the tail stock if you were cutting a small pinion.

J Tiers
01-05-2017, 05:23 PM
The off center center is to clear the top of the tail stock if you were cutting a small pinion.

Yep.

And quite a lot of them will not turn in the bore, they may have a flat or key.

BCRider
01-05-2017, 06:06 PM
Hi BC rider,

Thanks for the info. Both of the tail stocks are fixed for vertical movement, but the B&S may have some slots on the inside piece I will check on that.
Can you give me any insight about lubricant for the gear part of the dividing head ?

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris. :)

No need to ask me. See what the maker says. I'll bet one of these sizes is what you have. Click on the picture of the cover.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=5863

On the picture on that page you can see the tail stock in the middle and clearly see the two bolts that are used to set the coarse height of the center. Hence my suggestion to look over what you have in case one of them is a "generic" style which can be adjusted in that way.

Bob Ford
01-05-2017, 06:09 PM
oo grease. used in garden tractors and I think Torro. It is thick enough not to run all over, thin enough to lube well. Most recommend 90 weight oil. Which leaks and makes a mess.

Bob

Baz
01-05-2017, 07:16 PM
Grease is fine for hobby use in plain dividing. Oil would have been used in a production spiral milling application where it is just a precision gearbox.

Mister ED
01-05-2017, 08:37 PM
Is the dividing head itself a B&S? Or just one of the tailstocks?

If not, what brand is it?

Paul Alciatore
01-05-2017, 10:01 PM
Nice find, or as we often say here, "You suck!"

I would work on that tail stock that is only 1/16" short, as recommended above. You probably stand a good chance of making it work without the need of a raising block or shims.

I do not see any reason to have two tail stocks for it. So, for the one that is 3/4" short, I would write up a good description of it, take some good photos, and put it on E-bay. Start it at $5 or $10 or so. You may get your $50 back and have a free dividing head. Who knows, you may even get more than that. Then you would really, really suck. Be sure to include all the dimensions that determine how and where it can be used in that written description.

That's what I would do.

Mr Fixit
01-05-2017, 10:11 PM
Hello Group,

The label on the dividing head says Rutland Tool Supply Inc. Montebello Calif. When googled it goes to MSC's site so I assume they have been bought.
It looks like the B&S semi universal "0" but does not have all the same features and no other identifying marks, so I will assume it's a knockoff. It came with the B&S "0" tail stock and a generic one.
This was all in a box with the dividing head taken apart. The seller didn't know much except that his dad was the one to use it.
The B&S tail stock "0" is the one in the Vintage Machinery link that does not have any slots.
I appreciate all your comments.

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris. :)

Mr Fixit
01-06-2017, 01:37 PM
Hi Again,

I'm now thinking about a chuck for the dividing head. I measured the threads as 10tpi and the OD is 1.215, so is this 1-10 for mounting of a back plate and chuck?
I have a SB 9A lathe but not the same threads on the chucks so I'm going to need a back plate minimum and probably a small chuck.
Shar's had a couple at a decent price, I think I should get a 4 jaw since it allows for all configurations of setup.

Appreciate your responses!

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris. :)

BCRider
01-06-2017, 01:46 PM
I'd call that a 1 1/4" -10 spindle. Remember that the crests of the threads are topped off a bit. .25-.215=.035. Split that in half for one side and it's .017. That's a larger than normal amount but perhaps it's a "fix" to give any small chips room to fit without jamming the thread. Or perhaps the crests were badly chewed up and the guy dressed them down smooth? Hard to know what the history of stuff like this was. Are the thread peaks fairly "dull"? They should be if it's properly a 1.25-10 thread dressed down to that sort of size.

If you're only going to get ONE chuck then the 4 jaw would be the way to go because you can accurately center items too.

Spin Doctor
01-06-2017, 03:22 PM
5here is one thing I have never understood about the tailstocks that companies sold to go with their own index or dividing heads. You are making them to a standard height +/- what ever your tolerance is. Why not make the tailstock to the same stanard heightwith the same tolerance. The more things that are adjustable the greater the chance of screw ups. At on time we ordered a new tailstock to go with our Hartford 8" indexers. The tailstock was shorter so it was easy to make a spacer to bring it up to the same height as the indexer. The other thing I don't understand is why these taistocks are adjustable the way they are. If you're going to be adjustable why not make the unit so it goes up and down while the spindle stays parallel to the table. Inertia on the part of the manufacturer? A case of we've always done it this way?

BCRider
01-06-2017, 03:32 PM
I concur with your thoughts on how it moves up and down SD. I resorted to using a dial gauge to set my own tail stock for both height and level. It was a right PITA. The only good news is that once it's done it's done forever. I likely should drill and pin the sucker so it CAN'T move.

Maybe the crusty old curmudgeon's from the old machine shops had a fast and sure way to do this but it sure isn't an obvious trick.

sarge41
01-06-2017, 03:58 PM
Mr Fixit: Congrats on your new toy. On the subject of should the center level with the base. My opinion is that the centerline of the center should be in alignment with the work piece. This way, the center point of the tailstock, better fits the center of the workpiece.

On another subject, does anyone understand what JTiers was talking about with his ( A lot of them will not turn in the bore , they mayhave a flat or a key.)

Sarge

Mr Fixit
01-06-2017, 07:16 PM
Hi Sarge,

The B&S shown here has the key way and a setscrew for holding it in place on the center.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/familymrfixit/Postings%20pics/DSC_0815_zpsedthatin.jpg

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris :)