PDA

View Full Version : OT - Harrison Ford pilot error



Weston Bye
02-22-2017, 07:34 PM
I am hesitant to bring up yet another OT topic, there have been so many lately, but I value and respect the informed opinions of you guys here, particularly so many with aviation experience. Aaand... I am weary and infuriated by the news coverage and wish to vent.

Harrison Ford and his obvious landing error has been screamed across the news headlines for almost 3 days now. The news anchors and headline writers seem nearly hysterical in comparison to the aviation "experts" that they have interviewed.

The way I viewed the videos, Ford would have passed physically closer to the nose of the airliner if he had landed on the numbers of the assigned runway, than he did passing over top of the airliner. Less safe, to be sure, as there would be less direct visibility under the plane, with possibly more potential for catastrophic error, but still with a considerable margin.

When I was learning to fly, the Navy flying club planes were instructed by the tower to land on the parallel taxiway at NAS Albany, over the top of a large TAXIWAY sign, rather than the main runway. Instructed to take off from there also. Unusual procedure, but it gave me some perspective into the setting of Ford's error. No big deal, but worthy of a reprimand. I suppose had it been a person of less celebrity we would have heard nothing of this.

Other opinions?

lakeside53
02-22-2017, 07:42 PM
Yes bad, but it happens. Happens to airline pilots also... even landing at the wrong airport. Probably happened at several USA airports today, but... celebrity means the news gets hold of it and makes it "important".

I've had my share of "mistakes" at unfamiliar airports. If it was "familiar" to Harrison, then there's more to the story.

elf
02-22-2017, 07:43 PM
Shakespeare wrote about this in 1599...

RB211
02-22-2017, 07:50 PM
Watching the news is the equivalent of the village idiot grabbing a speakerphone and talking about things he knows nothing about. Harrison Ford exhibited piss poor situational awareness, but his mistake is common. Some airports, the taxiways look like runways.

kitno455
02-22-2017, 09:07 PM
"I am weary and infuriated by the news coverage..."

There is an easy fix for that. I have no idea what you are talking about, did not even know Harrison Ford had a pilot's license. Cut yourself off from the 'news'. You don't need it.

allan

Seastar
02-22-2017, 09:09 PM
I've landed on lots of taxiways but always on purpose. Usually because the crosswind was so bad on the only runway. Also landed on the grass next to a runway many times.
I feel sorry for Harrison. He has been a good spokesman for general aviation.
I have probably done dumber things but not with high visibility.
I hope he gets away with a short suspension at most.
Bill

Weston Bye
02-22-2017, 09:15 PM
Shakespeare wrote about this in 1599...

It finally came to me: Much Ado About Nothing.

Indeed.

Evan
02-22-2017, 10:37 PM
Very recently two CF-18 Hornet Canadian fighter jets tried to land at a closed airport in Florida. The airport has been closed for 7 years and they were at the point of gear down.

This was just over a week ago:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/two-canadian-cf-18s-were-on-approach-to-land-at-florida-airport-that-hasnt-existed-since-2010

dave_r
02-22-2017, 10:55 PM
Yeah, just two weeks ago, two Canadian CF18's almost landed at an abandoned airport before the tower at the correct airport told them they were at the wrong one. Probably not the first time for that problem to occur either...

doh, replied and took too long to post, someone sniped me!

Guido
02-22-2017, 11:19 PM
Were large 'Xs" visible on each end of the Florida runway?

Evan
02-23-2017, 12:21 AM
There is a rather dark X at one end and the other end is torn up as they are tearing out the runway. But it is only about 1.5 miles from an almost identical but longer runway and about 5 miles from Tyndall AFB.

flylo
02-23-2017, 12:59 AM
They redid the runway at C91 Dowagiac a few years ago was rearing up the runway with dozers, big Xs on the runway & I sat in my hanger door relaxing as a cessna 210 landed on what was left just missing the dozer then got stuck in the sand where the pavement was gone. He was very embarrassed but had his family in there with him. Talk about pilot error. I used to fly right before dark after work landing right into the sun & wore cheap sunglasses & at South Haven once set up for the taxiway but something just wasn't right & caught it before I landed. I bought a good set after that I don't care what ZZ Top said. Many time with an old taildragger I've landed or taken off on a taxiway on purpose, it's pretty common. I like those land on one wheel landings in a crosswind or pulling one float out of the water to get to T/O speed. The smoother the water the harder it is to take off.

RB211
02-23-2017, 02:46 AM
They redid the runway at C91 Dowagiac a few years ago was rearing up the runway with dozers, big Xs on the runway & I sat in my hanger door relaxing as a cessna 210 landed on what was left just missing the dozer then got stuck in the sand where the pavement was gone. He was very embarrassed but had his family in there with him. Talk about pilot error. I used to fly right before dark after work landing right into the sun & wore cheap sunglasses & at South Haven once set up for the taxiway but something just wasn't right & caught it before I landed. I bought a good set after that I don't care what ZZ Top said. Many time with an old taildragger I've landed or taken off on a taxiway on purpose, it's pretty common. I like those land on one wheel landings in a crosswind or pulling one float out of the water to get to T/O speed. The smoother the water the harder it is to take off.

When they re-paved the taxiway at Fort Lauderdale International, it looked identical to the runway next to it. Once, when I was a brand new private pilot, I entered a traffic pattern for a closed airport located a mile within 6B9. Didn't last long when I noticed the X's and big burns of dirt on the closed runway.
Flying into El Paso, well, one just needs to look at an approach chart to see what not to do. Very easy to mistake the military base for the airport if you decided to ignore all the tools at your disposal in the cockpit. Ahem... Atlas, and Southwest to name two out of many!(not at El Paso, but elsewhere)

pinstripe
02-23-2017, 03:02 AM
There is an easy fix for that. I have no idea what you are talking about, did not even know Harrison Ford had a pilot's license. Cut yourself off from the 'news'. You don't need it.

Exactly. Who's Harrison Ford? ;)

Mike Burch
02-23-2017, 03:54 AM
What's a bit more worrying is the radio recording, which shows he was confused about whether he was flying his aeroplane or his helicopter. He was obviously not in a good place mentally that day, poor bloke.
I too was once within a whisker of landing on the wrong bit of grass at a controlled airport. Embarrassing, to say the least.

Arcane
02-23-2017, 04:04 AM
I wonder how many of the people here who think it's "no big deal" would be saying that if they were a passenger in that jet, looked out the window and saw that small plane coming towards them.

EVguru
02-23-2017, 07:34 AM
Perhaps he'd got distance and time confused.

A.K. Boomer
02-23-2017, 07:52 AM
Exactly. Who's Harrison Ford? ;)

Im not sure either --- I think it might be that guy that's married or going out with Calista Flockhart?

Seastar
02-23-2017, 08:52 AM
I wonder how many of the people here who think it's "no big deal" would be saying that if they were a passenger in that jet, looked out the window and saw that small plane coming towards them.
Well me for one, because it wasn't a big deal!
He wasn't "coming towards them" he landed over them.
Pilots know better.
Bill

Arcane
02-23-2017, 09:12 AM
Well me for one, because it wasn't a big deal!
He wasn't "coming towards them" he landed over them.
Pilots know better.
Bill

Yeah, small airplanes have never lost power, have they? There's an intersection here in town about a half mile north of me where two of them crash landed when they ran out of fuel of all things.

George Bulliss
02-23-2017, 09:22 AM
Well me for one, because it wasn't a big deal!
He wasn't "coming towards them" he landed over them.
Pilots know better.
Bill

Made my share of mistakes, but I disagree that landing over the airliner was fine and dandy. The fact that you were flying over an airliner should have been a big clue that someone wasn't where they were supposed to be. If he didn't notice he was overflying an airliner on short approach, that's kinda troubling too. Pilots know better, but they also know there aren't supposed to be two aircraft on the runway at the same time.

Joe_B
02-23-2017, 10:16 AM
Go Around! Over...

gaston
02-23-2017, 11:32 AM
from the "news video" they showed, he was not over the airliner but passed it above and in front of it.
from where he was he couldn't have hit it if he tried. anyone who has flown much from large controlled airports has seen much worse!!

lakeside53
02-23-2017, 11:53 AM
It's likely he was cleared to land on the runway in-front of the airliner that was waiting at the intersection but landed "over" the jet onto that taxiway. Video alignment is tricky to determine path.

hermetic
02-23-2017, 12:01 PM
My brother has a PPL, and always says "Any landing that you walk away from is a good landing"

Evan
02-23-2017, 12:12 PM
All Ford needed to do was to put on a bit of power and start climbing as he passed over. That would have shown his awareness of the situation and there would no longer be a question about that. That is the real problem. Lack of awareness can be deadly when flying and even while driving or even walking across the street.

RB211
02-23-2017, 01:23 PM
All Ford needed to do was to put on a bit of power and start climbing as he passed over. That would have shown his awareness of the situation and there would no longer be a question about that. That is the real problem. Lack of awareness can be deadly when flying and even while driving or even walking across the street.

Well, at least the Millenium Falcon is safe for now.

danlb
02-23-2017, 02:50 PM
The first video that I watched showed the airliner moving forward as Ford approached. I wonder if that added to the confusion? If I were concerned about a 737 pulling into my approach, I might watch it too closely at make such a mistake.

lakeside53
02-23-2017, 03:13 PM
I sat (passenger) in a 737 in about that position watching aircraft approaching and landing at night... big low lights about 1/2 mile out... then my aircraft suddenly pulled out on the runway, paused for a few seconds and turned rapidly back on the turnaround (loop end) as the other aircraft went around buffeting the crap out of us with wake. Could have been not-pretty.

Stuff like this happens more than you think.

pinstripe
02-23-2017, 03:21 PM
Im not sure either --- I think it might be that guy that's married or going out with Calista Flockhart?

Thanks Boomer. Did you mean Amelia Earhart? She flew planes too.

J Tiers
02-23-2017, 07:14 PM
Hmmm.

Them as hollers about it ought to try doing it.... there is a lot of stuff that seems easy and obvious when you are NOT the one doing it.

lots of professional pilots with plenty of hours seem to have made mistakes of the same general sort. possibly time for some to get a life.

Paul Alciatore
02-23-2017, 09:18 PM
Quick, lets machine something to prevent this.

flylo
02-23-2017, 09:20 PM
My brother has a PPL, and always says "Any landing that you walk away from is a good landing"

And it's a GREAT landing if you can reuse the plane!:cool:

Danl
02-24-2017, 12:16 PM
Around here it used to be quite common for cropdusters to land on taxi strips to refill their spray tanks in order to save a few cents (or $?) each cycle.

Not so sure it is that common anymore, however.

Dan

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 12:41 PM
Thanks Boomer. Did you mean Amelia Earhart? She flew planes too.

Could be - I think he's old enough and from that era...

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 12:45 PM
Hmmm.

Them as hollers about it ought to try doing it.... there is a lot of stuff that seems easy and obvious when you are NOT the one doing it.


Absolutely, I don't think people are being fair in all of this and with his particular set of circumstances, I mean I bet at any given moment he thought someone was going to jump in and say " Alright - Cut! - take two, lets try it again from the start"

danlb
02-24-2017, 12:55 PM
Absolutely, I don't think people are being fair in all of this and with his particular set of circumstances, I mean I bet at any given moment he thought someone was going to jump in and say " Alright - Cut! - take two, lets try it again from the start"

I can't recall... Did you say that you were a pilot Boomer? It sure sounds like you know more than Harrison Ford, who IS an accomplished pilot.

Kind of dumb to make fun of a guy for doing something that you are not capable of doing, IMHO.

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 12:58 PM
Yeah iv built my own planes and fly them in safe area's - and helps when I still end up hitting people because they are mostly made out of foam, lol

don't get all upset now just having a little fun lol

part of the price of fame...

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 01:06 PM
just a streak of bad luck I guess - wonder if he does his own maintenance ?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harrison-ford-injured-plane-crash-n318301

danlb
02-24-2017, 01:35 PM
just a streak of bad luck I guess - wonder if he does his own maintenance ?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harrison-ford-injured-plane-crash-n318301

Yeah, that emergency landing with a failed engine two years ago hit all the news. Just now noticing it?

Isn't it amazing that he's flying vintage planes at 74? For that matter, the plane that crashed first flew in 1942. That made it 73 years old at the time that it crashed, which is pretty impressive to me. More about that plane (NC53178) at https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/june/01/ryan-pt-22-not-just-another-pretty-face

Dan

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 01:48 PM
Yeah, that emergency landing with a failed engine two years ago hit all the news. Just now noticing it?

Isn't it amazing that he's flying vintage planes at 74? For that matter, the plane that crashed first flew in 1942. That made it 73 years old at the time that it crashed, which is pretty impressive to me. More about that plane (NC53178) at https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/june/01/ryan-pt-22-not-just-another-pretty-face

Dan

Chill out Dan - like I said bad streak of luck - but I do wonder if he maintains it....

HF's one of my favorite actors --- never seen star wars but thought he rocked it in Raiders of the lost arc, in fact they could not have found a better guy to play the part,,, I think I seen that movie twice --- then when it came out in color seen it again ( ok ok i'll stop now lol)

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2017, 02:01 PM
Yeah, that emergency landing with a failed engine two years ago hit all the news. Just now noticing it?


Dan

And just for the record ---- no --- not just now noticing it,,, was retained in memory and went and found it -- is it relevant?

have no idea - might be if he maintains his own stuff - dunno,,, but since someone brought up the initial OP and nothing was said about further track records I thought it at least relevant to bring it up - comprendo? then let people who know more about it say yay or nay

danlb
02-24-2017, 02:59 PM
And just for the record ---- no --- not just now noticing it,,, was retained in memory and went and found it -- is it relevant?

have no idea - might be if he maintains his own stuff - dunno,,, but since someone brought up the initial OP and nothing was said about further track records I thought it at least relevant to bring it up - comprendo? then let people who know more about it say yay or nay

Chill? Why would you say that? I said nothing derogatory. I did add actual facts to the thread as well as a link to the history of the airplane that crashed a few years back. That's a good read, by the way. I find it amazing that someone spent 2300 hours rebuilding it back 1992 - 1998 period.

Dan

rmcphearson
02-24-2017, 06:44 PM
Amelia Earhart


Worst Miss Universe ever. Check out her sex tape. Sad!

RB211
02-25-2017, 12:18 AM
Speaking of pilots making errors, I just made a huge one. With paperwork... They never tell you that to be a pilot, you must also be a lawyer. I'm thinking I only need a few more hours for consolidation. Nope, need about 50... Need it by middle of next month. Problem is, with a 747 and double crews, you only can count 50% towards it... So need about 100 hours!!! Augmented crew, its 66.7%...
This is the stuff that I hate about aviation!

lakeside53
02-25-2017, 12:25 AM
Better get flying then!

RB211
02-25-2017, 12:27 AM
Better get flying then!

So much for going home :(

flylo
02-25-2017, 12:55 AM
The price you pay till you hit the top rung on the ladder. I have a friend that now flys wide body's to Hawaii & back once a week. He used to fly to Japan & told me about a farmer with about an acre between the runway & taxiway that didn't want to move & they respected his land rights so there he is. Think I would have moved. He could have retired several years ago but is stuffing the nest egg but says it used to be way more fun a few years ago & his only saving grace is he can leave when he decides too.

jmarkwolf
02-25-2017, 06:26 AM
Anecdote: The local Med Flight helicopter service based at my field depart and approach on the taxiways all the time.

RB211
02-25-2017, 07:19 AM
Anecdote: The local Med Flight helicopter service based at my field depart and approach on the taxiways all the time.

Ever see a helicopter hover taxi? It's a different world with them

flylo
02-25-2017, 07:42 AM
Hot air balloons that are just over the center of the runway waiting for wind like they own the airport are a blast too.

Seastar
02-25-2017, 10:05 AM
Anecdote: The local Med Flight helicopter service based at my field depart and approach on the taxiways all the time.

Where I'm based we have a very active helicopter school.
They almost always depart and land on the taxiways on on the grass alongside the runways.
Sometimes from the ramp.
Helios are different and even have different rules.
Bill

Evan
02-25-2017, 12:54 PM
In this part of the woods it is common for lighter aircraft to land on the grass beside the runway. Many are equipped with "Tundra Tires" for landing on soft ground. Landing on the runway wears the tires in a hurry. This is mostly the case further north but they also operate down here. There are still a lot of unpaved landing fields in BC and further north that is usually the case. Paved runways break up too easily in the freeze/thaw cycles that can go deep into the ground. Even in Williams Lake the runway pavement/concrete is more than two feet thick.

partsproduction
02-26-2017, 10:47 PM
But it is only about 1.5 miles from an almost identical but longer runway and about 5 miles from Tyndall AFB

Been there, done that.
Tower; "Luscombe 45594, what is your position?" Me; "On final, you said cleared to land didn't you?"

Yep, a different airport several miles away. Does make one feel silly. I don't think I was on final though, it was downwind and they hadn't identified me by eye yet.

danlb
02-26-2017, 11:29 PM
I've told this before;

A relative was taking flying instruction. I was allowed to ride along. After an hour of practicing maneuvers we headed back to Glendale Airport. The instructor had Gary weaving back and forth, taking various headings. At about 2 miles or so out, he told Gary to take over and land. Gary dutifully lined up on the runway that was dead ahead. Ivan asked "which one are you landing one, left or right?"

Glendale, 3 miles to our south east only has one runway.

I thought it was mean to do that to Gary with me in the back, but we just laughed about it and never spoke of it again.

Dan