PDA

View Full Version : [LASERS!!!] Photographing Lasers In Action



Max McGrumpy
02-24-2017, 01:04 PM
Ok this is the laser in question, it will have the tech specs listed at the page:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KM1YF4S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have two of them. We use them for marking 3D printed parts, making little wood knicknacks and woodburning small signs and bookmarks.

With the 3D printers we have installed OctoPrint on RasPi modules and set up cameras so customers can watch their product being manufactured. It's a huge hit with the folks we work with. One of our technical customers was utterly in awe of the fact that I took the file they sent, sent them a link and hit the start button. They sat there and watched the part form, then ran someone out to pick it up as soon as the machine stopped. Other customers we send them timelapse shots as a keepsake.

I want to do similar with the laser engravers. While I get some cool back-scatter/glare/smoke shots I can't see the actual cutting in progress. I have had luck with a Kapton film over the lens and a powerful flash, but that makes a still-shot I want to record video/stream live.

The equipment I have on hand consists of Audrino boards and components, web-cams, cell-phone cameras, several decent PCs and lots of enthusiasm. My electronics experience as you may recall consists of "following detailed instructions after asking questions." :D

So, how would I go about setting this up...?

Evan
02-24-2017, 02:11 PM
Check out this one by me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PQwfwimHxc

Max McGrumpy
02-27-2017, 11:26 AM
We figured out how to rig filters to control back-scatter and reflections off the smoke in the chamber.

Evan
02-27-2017, 12:47 PM
An adjustable polarizer works well as well as the usual UV and a neutral density filter or two. The polarizer in particular will help control reflections from any reflective surfaces. Diode lasers aren't as bad as gas lasers but they can still exhibit polarization directly as well as from reflections.

I still remember the article in Popular Science about how a ruby rod laser works. I desperately wanted to build one but the ruby rod was far too expensive. Then Xerox invented the high power laser diode and everything changed. Xerox also invented the laser printer and I had the opportunity to see the first one at PARC. Those early ones did not use a diode laser, it was blue gas laser. We had to be extremely careful of course. We were able to increase the power quite lot when playing with them.

Max McGrumpy
02-27-2017, 01:30 PM
An adjustable polarizer works well as well as the usual UV and a neutral density filter or two. The polarizer in particular will help control reflections from any reflective surfaces. Diode lasers aren't as bad as gas lasers but they can still exhibit polarization directly as well as from reflections.


Polarized filters were suggested, but I don't have anything like that on hand. We used a lens out of a pair of broken sun-glasses, and some Kapton tape over glass. It cut down on the "glare" and allowed us to get some shots. Need to work on it a bit but it's basically the right direction for us for now.

Dragons_fire
02-27-2017, 03:50 PM
Lots of sunglasses now are polarized, even the cheap ones from wally world. try stacking both lenses and then turn one and see if the light passing through changes.

I have a tv above my 60w CO2 laser and was thinking about mounting a small camera inside the enclosure so that I could see it on the big screen. Im interested In what works well for you.

Evan
02-27-2017, 07:31 PM
A CO2 laser will be highly linearly polarized due to the Brewster window. However, most glasses are not transparent in IR at around ten microns. You can pretty well block the laser with ordinary glass.

macona
02-28-2017, 01:10 AM
Ok this is the laser in question, it will have the tech specs listed at the page:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KM1YF4S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Good lord, that thing is illegal to sell in the US, its a Class IV device open without interlocks.

Make sure you wear eye protection for the laser whenever it is on, even a specular reflection is enough to cause permanent eye damage.

macona
02-28-2017, 01:13 AM
A CO2 laser will be highly linearly polarized due to the Brewster window. However, most glasses are not transparent in IR at around ten microns. You can pretty well block the laser with ordinary glass.

Almost no CO2 lasers have brewster windows with external optics. About the only lasers still made with them are argon ions because people change the optics for different lines/modes.

dave_r
02-28-2017, 02:17 AM
Good lord, that thing is illegal to sell in the US, its a Class IV device open without interlocks.

Make sure you wear eye protection for the laser whenever it is on, even a specular reflection is enough to cause permanent eye damage.

You just need a warning label now: "Do not look in laser with remaining eye."

macona
02-28-2017, 02:36 AM
You just need a warning label now: "Do not look in laser with remaining eye."

I dont think it even has that.

Reported them to Amazon, its actually a prohibited item according to their sellers page. If that does not work it's off to the FDA.

Evan
02-28-2017, 03:28 AM
Almost no CO2 lasers have brewster windows with external optics

I have not kept up with gas lasers, no reason to these days. The ones I worked with were indeed argon lasers.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 04:16 AM
Good lord, that thing is illegal to sell in the US, its a Class IV device open without interlocks.

Make sure you wear eye protection for the laser whenever it is on, even a specular reflection is enough to cause permanent eye damage.

First thing I did was enclose three sides with plywood and build a shielded window for the front.

While you are on a self-righteous safety kick to protect people from themselves despite themselves let me give you a list of dangerous solvents, RF hazard and electrically unsafe items that are sold every day on Amazon. Lets get "real" now -- they are going to keep selling these despite your crusade. There are plenty of sites out there that show how to take the diode from one of these machines and mount it on the Prussa I3 frame... a lot of people are running open-frame 3D-printers with laser heads. In fact at least two manufacturers are selling this as a standard feature now and three more as option. Want the names and addresses of those companies too?

And while you are at it might as well shut down the 3D printing industry as well. Burn hazards, toxic ABS fumes, potential for thermal-runaway accidents... Not to mention people routinely soak parts in MEK and Tetrahydrofuran and acetone without a full suite of safety gear.

The extruder kit that makes filament is sold without any sort of interlock, and we all know how dangerous an extrusion line can be. Let me give you the address of the company that makes those.

The open-frame scanners that are popular for digitizing items use unshielded lasers and some use fairly bright strobe-lights too. I have a list of six such companies here you need to get these off the market.

And let see... Oh! HARBOR FREIGHT. Let me get the list here... Dangerous batteries, cracked castings, improperly hardened cutters/end-mills/drill-bits, dead-soft Allan Keys... Electrically unsafe mills and lathes with porous brittle castings... Right here is your life's work. You need to crusade Harbor Freight right off the map. Let me get you the contact information.

You said you have pull at the FDA? Here's a list of energy sodas, alcoholic substances, foods that are difficult to chew and substances containing more than the "safe" daily limit of caffeine. This Miralax stuff causes profound neurological changes lets get that off the market too. Oh and anything containing peas. Holy shi* are peas gross. You need to do us a public service and get those little green balls of death off the market.

Oh and my car, doesn't have a safety interlock at all. I can drive it at high speed into a bridge pylon and there is nothing the car can do to stop me. And I can do so with my high-beams on and my radio blasting and a cellphone in each hand. How many thousands of people die each year do to cars without any sort of safety system to prevent collisions? You need to take on the automotive industry -- these things are unsafe at ANY speed.


Shall we continue or have I made my point? Go get a hobby and don't infringe upon mine. If these things are as illegal as you say they'd have been pulled off the market by now, I suspect you are just grandstanding for attention. They are sold with safety gear and an instruction booklet outlining the dangers and most of the hobby groups instruct you to enclose them before operating. I think we can basically take care of ourselves, same as any other "dangerous hobby" out there we don't need crusaders like you ruining things out of some misguided sense of "safety."

Now if you excuse me I'm off to play with my model rockets, I'm a member of the high-altitude club. We keep track of our record-setting attempts with drones (open propellers, lithium batteries)... but don't worry despite the "dangers" we have permits and all the proper forms are filed.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 04:23 AM
Oh and I'm sure Amazon is fully aware that they are selling these devices. Several are listed as "best seller." Most are PRIME-enabled. I just looked over the regulations, apparently the pages and pages of best-selling high-powered laser pointers are in direct violation of their rules too, as are the diode kits they sell, the laser scopes for guns they sell, and on and on and on.

Good luck, I suspect you'll be getting a enthusiastic "go **** yourself" from Amazon, and we all know the FDA can be bought off with a bottle of wine and a bribe.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 04:45 AM
Finally, I've made a list of all of the dangerous equipment you have discussed over the years of being a member here. I don't care what your background is the fact that you are in possession of some of this stuff makes you a clear and present danger to the public safety. Are your neighbors aware of your hobbies and what you do for fun? They will be shortly.

I'm going to release this information to the community leaders in the town you have listed, and give them detailed instructions on how to contact the forum administrator so they can pull your IP information. From there it's a simile matter of tracking you down by various means, and someone will be around to collect your stuff.

For your own protection of course. And the protection of everyone else around you. It's for your own good, nothing personal. I wouldn't want you to... ya know... hurt yourself or someone else because your cocky arrogant overconfidence got the better of you. Toys like the ones you favor are regulated industrial machines or for academic use only.... not for private ownership in a non-regulated environment.

Hey did you also consider all the DealExtreme and BangGood style importers you'll have to go after as well? Not to mention Ebay. You'll need to take on Ebay as well. And Alibaba.

This is going to be entertaining! After the Feds raid your home you'll have plenty of time to make all this happen though. I salute you, sir.

Hopefuldave
02-28-2017, 08:18 AM
Somebody got your mutant star-goat...

But a class 4 laser is pretty damn dangerous, I work in a lab' and did the safety courses, filtered eye protection would be a compulsory step and when playing with class 4 you (legally) need risk assessments, door interlocks, beam confinement.
I have a small blank spot in one eye from a class 3 laser exposure, class 4 can't just blind (permanently), it can cause physical injuries.

Dave H. (the other one)

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 09:30 AM
Ok so where does it state Class 4 laser? Not in the ad for the machine. Not in any of the included lit. The diode itself has a laser symbol says "Caution, Laser Light. Wear Proper Safety Gear."

They come with a pair of super-dark amber glasses, instructions are to use the goggles when adjusting the focus, and when viewing the operation of the machine. Instructions suggest enclosing three sides of the machine to minimize smoke and objectionable light. Instructions detail that laser can cause eye injury and diode is not to be aimed at objects other than the object to be cut. Laser is not intended for etching glass, metal, or transparent plastic. It is strongly suggested that laser is used to etch stone, leather, paper, MDF, wood, and other similar flammable materials. Machine may give off objectionable chemical fumes when used to etch plastics. Do not submerge laser or operate underwater. It is strongly suggested that children not operate this machine, even under adult supervision. Laser is not intended for the marking of controlled substances or items under regulation or export control. Laser is not for marking of food products or containers intended for the retail selling of food product. Laser is to be kept in special shipping container when not in use and under proper refrigeration at all times. Failure to do so absolves Amazon Laser Industries and it's subsidiary Global Conspiracy International of all liability expressed or implied. Laser may accelerate to dangerous speeds, restrain properly. Do not place laser on concrete. Laser device contains a glowing substance that fell from the sky, presumably from outer space. Laser has been issued to all Godless Liberal Crybabies and is being dropped on enemy positions in the Middle East. Do not taunt laser.


So I ask again, where does it say Class 4 laser?

pinstripe
02-28-2017, 09:53 AM
Just guessing here, but if it doesn't state what class the laser is, then it probably is illegal to sell it.

I understand that you like your freedoms, but if this thing is dangerous/non compliant, then it shouldn't be sold on Amazon as a "Little Lovely Machine for Engrave , Personalize a Wide Variety of Objects".

Just look at one of the top reviews "it is not recommended to look directly at the laser during use". Really, a laser that can carve wood and it's not "recommended" that you look "directly" at it when it's on? Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves. Allowing them to blind themselves due to their ignorance is a high price for them to pay.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 10:26 AM
"it is not recommended to look directly at the laser during use".

This is true of all laser products, from novelty laser pointers to industrial cutting lasers. Many modern LED flashlights should carry warnings as well as they can be dangerously bright.






Really, a laser that can carve wood and it's not "recommended" that you look "directly" at it when it's on? Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.


Disagree. We need to cull the herd. If people are too stupid they are too stupid. We are the only species that defies natural selection and grants protection to the weak, stupid, foolish and ignorant. And it is taking a toll on us as we go forward. In fact it will probably lead to our extinction in the next 100-150 years or so.



Allowing them to blind themselves due to their ignorance is a high price for them to pay.

It'll serve as a warning to the more intelligent and adaptable members of the herd.


Frankly your objections above can be applied to any workshop tool, welding, flying drones, playing paintball, working with paints, any hobby really. Tell you what, why don't we just make Home Shop activities and all hobbies illegal. You could lose an eye when an end-mill fails, and all those fumes from the coolant can't be good for you. It's too high a price to pay. And if you are out playing paint ball you could slip on a rock, hit your head and die. Far far too high a price to pay. And if you are flying a drone, you could suffer a fire from charging the battery... or the drone could fall from the sky and hit someone on the head. That's a high price to pay.

From this time forward I want everyone to stay home, sit in front of the TV or Internet and watch the approved programming that comes from the approved sources. The approved media will tell you what to think, when to think and compel you to consume approved substances and items, for your protection of course. Any other activity has an unacceptable risk of injury or death, and that's just too high a price to pay.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 11:36 AM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag462/PoweredByPlasticFantastic/WHAT_zpsg4s2ytsz.jpg (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/PoweredByPlasticFantastic/media/WHAT_zpsg4s2ytsz.jpg.html)

:cool:

These are the goggles that were recommended for use with CO2 lasers and fiber lasers used for cutting sheetmetal. I don't mean the incidental reflection and scatter while cutting, I mean the optical system upkeep and calibration. Thousand-plus watt machines, will blind you with great and irrecoverable rapidity. I contacted the manufacturer and asked if they would protect me from the backscatter from my little blueish 1.5 watt diode laser and they basically laughed at me and said yes they would. In fact it is kind of hard to see the dot during the setup/focus process!

The goggles that came with the machine were tested by a friend at the local university, and they provide sufficient protection against scatter and reflection in this situation. Again we're only talking one and a half watts..

I have been informed that no goggles commercially available at my price-range will protect against a direct beam strike. That means if I take the diode off and point it at my face, I'm going to suffer some kind of catastrophic injury.

And honestly I am smart enough not to do that.

Most people are.

Other people in other parts of the world are smart enough to realize that too.

Only in America do we need self-appointed nannies telling us what is too dangerous for our own good and enacting rules and regulations without regard. I may not be a laser expert but I've read up enough on the subject to know what the hazards are. I've worked with industrial lasers in the past, and may work with them in the future however unlikely they are.

What I do not need is a self-righteous Shop Cop telling me what I can and cannot do in my own workshop. Especially one who has posted about plasma equipment, large industrial lasers, big-ass generators, RF equipment and other hazardous equipment in his home-shop... And the pictures lead me to believe that he lives in a residential area. This person has all this equipment by his own admission, but threatens to call the FDA and bring the thunder down on Amazon over a half-watt laser etcher.

Yeah. Really don't get that but whatever. To each his own.

Evan
02-28-2017, 02:01 PM
Any laser over about five milliwatts has the ability to cause eye damage and it can be even less if it is sharp focused and points into the eye for more than a few seconds. I have always used serious eye protection, a full welding helmet works well. I also use beam blocks that do not reflect as well as windows known to not transmit the wavelengths in question. That is pretty easy to measure with a photometer of known sensitivity. But then I had a lot of training in that field.

I should mention that lasers are not restricted in Canada, last I checked. The only restriction is the use as a weapon.

RB211
02-28-2017, 02:20 PM
What do you need to cut balsa? I'd find that very useful for my r/c airplane hobby.

Evan
02-28-2017, 02:49 PM
I have tried it on balsa. Balsa has a very large variation in density compared to weight so it wasn't very successful. If the balsa is much the same it can be cut reasonably well. It may well make a big difference what wavelength is used. I have tried red, green and near UV. The near UV worked the best. No idea how deep IR would work.

Max McGrumpy
02-28-2017, 02:55 PM
I originally bought it to mark wooden boxes for a product we were making. I started marking other wood items and found a niche market. They don't cut, they are strictly engravers.

We do have a 40 watt cutter-engraver inbound from Orion Motor, I suspect however the Shop Cops will intercept my shipment and punish me for daring to have such a horribly dangerous unregulated device at my disposal. You know despite prior experience and training. Kind of funny how someone logs in "Hey I've never run a shaper before so I bought one and restored it and actually learned to use it and somehow survived!" You think the Shop Cops would be calling the police and threatening the poster with reprisal for running a machine without adequate safety interlocks and guards... Go figure!

Anyway the cutter will be here in three weeks at which time I will put it to use cutting wood inserts and acrylic display parts. Compliments our existing business nicely and opens up some doors for us.

macona
02-28-2017, 05:38 PM
Wow, some industrial strength hyperbole here.

Unlike the RF transmitters on amazon, a operating laser cutter is a attractive nuisance. If you have ever installed one you will have people coming by constantly to watch it do its thing for weeks after installation. After that people get bored with it and no longer care. That's the problem with these little POSs, people do not know these things are dangerous and assume it must be ok to be around. A transmitter is not going to potentially blind you from a random reflection.

Class IV is anything 500mw or above.

Laser goggles are wavelength specific, I had separate goggles for UV and 808nm, 1064, and 532nm. You use googles meant for a CO2 laser and look at what is probably a 405nm on your toy and it will do zero good. A basic pair of glasses will run you about 100-150, I think my eyes are worth that. And then there is the whole issue of blue light and how it is detrimental to your vision.

The CO2 laser cutters that come into the US are almost always FDA/CDRH compliant. There have cases where the resellers have had to add extra interlocks on the machines when they get here though, but that has been years.

Yes, I have a lot of toys, but they are relatively safe, wiring is done to code and I take the proper safety precautions where needed. The stuff I buy is not sold bulk on amazon to people that have no idea what they are doing.

These laser cutters are not toys and that is how they are selling them.

Max McGrumpy
03-01-2017, 09:58 AM
I spent the evening doing research on the subject, both wikipedia and other sources of laser safety information. I also reviewed the documentation that came with my goggles, my laser machines and the old laser-safety training program documents I had to sign when I worked with big CO2 lasers.

The conclusion I have arrived at is this: While Homeshop Machinist is an excellent source of information on shapers, scraping process, old unidentified lathes and tube-bending, you folks suck at anything other than machining. Hobby electronics, you are fairly good about that. Woodworking, sure. Machining, absolutely.

But when it comes to matters like this I'm going to have to declare "bogus bogus." Possibly even bull$hit. Everything I have read so far indicates that certain people here are shooting from the hip and trolling for attention... grand sweeping statements about reporting things to Amazon and calling in the FDA smack of a small petty person with far too much time and not much sense.

I figured that given the cross-section of experts on this forum I'd be able to get some information on setting up a filter so I can monitor my laser and record the cutting process. I mentioned reflections, smoke and other issues... instead of asking questions about my setup I got a broadside about "illegal" "dangerous" and threats about the FDA.

What I am going to do is start documenting dangerous things I see on here... anodizing, electrolytic rust removal, lead-based materials... and keep it all on file. When people take a massive $hit on my hobbies and threaten my livelihood I'll simply remind them that working with hazardous chemicals at home in a residential setting can bring massive fines and probably jail time.

That's the way you want to play it... isn't it? Homeshop Trollfest. I'm down with that. PLAY BALL!

Or MAYBE we need to step back, admit that we don't have enough information to make an appropriate call on the safety of these machines in the application they are intended for, and say so. Instead of a knee-jerk "I'm reporting Amazon to the FDA" reaction, admit that you don't know this from that and do your homework before you make yourself look like an idiot.


However in the future I shall refrain from bringing any of my non-machining hobbies up in this forum. Last thing I want is a self-righteous safety-justification warrior (SJW) (shop-cop) closing down the 3D printing industry because "guns" or someone threatening to call the FAA because "drones" or god forbid I post about the music I write and get yelled at about DRM.

Maybe... what we need is a crackdown on off-topic subjects... get back to home-shop machining and leave the other subjects for other forums. What say you, George?

Seastar
03-01-2017, 10:14 AM
Chill Max!
I couldn't agree with you more but don't blow a fuse or a blood vessel over it.
It won't change anything. The sun will probably come up tomorrow.
Bill

pinstripe
03-01-2017, 10:20 AM
anodizing, electrolytic rust removal, lead-based materials...

Are those items being sold as novelties on Amazon?

We all know there are plenty of stupid laws, but if there is a law requiring interlocks on such a device, then that is just how it is. You may prefer to save a few bucks at the expense of someone else being blinded, but the society you live in does not agree with you.

tomato coupe
03-01-2017, 10:44 AM
... you folks suck at anything other than machining. Hobby electronics, you are fairly good about that. Woodworking, sure. Machining, absolutely.

But when it comes to matters like this I'm going to have to declare "bogus bogus." Possibly even bull$hit. Everything I have read so far indicates that certain people here are shooting from the hip and trolling for attention... grand sweeping statements about reporting things to Amazon and calling in the FDA smack of a small petty person with far too much time and not much sense.

I figured that given the cross-section of experts on this forum I'd be able to get some information on setting up a filter so I can monitor my laser and record the cutting process. I mentioned reflections, smoke and other issues... instead of asking questions about my setup I got a broadside about "illegal" "dangerous" and threats about the FDA.

Would you like an opinion from someone who owns a company that manufactures lasers and has been dealing with the FDA for 25 years?

chipmaker4130
03-01-2017, 11:21 AM
Would you like an opinion from someone who owns a company that manufactures lasers and has been dealing with the FDA for 25 years?


That would be most interesting. While you're at it, what's the backstory on your username?

Max McGrumpy
03-01-2017, 11:52 AM
Would you like an opinion from someone who owns a company that manufactures lasers and has been dealing with the FDA for 25 years?

Not really because it's an opinion. I deal with facts, not opinions. Opinions and assholes - everyone has one and they are full of $hit.

In light of the situation (pun intended) I've been doing my own research on the subject and it is quite illuminating (pun intended). I see where you are coming from, but at the same time there are a lot more hazardous things in and around your home and workshop that need regulation. Or do they? I don't see people dropping dead from lack of regulations in other countries, in fact the birthrate seems to be rising while we coddle people and try to protect them from their own shadow.

Most of the regulation seems to be aimed at (pun again) protecting airliner pilots from beam glare. While I agree this is an issue, it is one that is vastly overstated. I have friends who fly commercially, and they say most reported "laser incidents" are simply reflections or glare from sunlight interacting with the aircraft or atmospheric conditions. You will notice that other countries don't have this problem or at least not to the point that they need to have page after page after page of regulations on novelty laser pointers.

Joel
03-01-2017, 12:09 PM
That would be most interesting. While you're at it, what's the backstory on your username?
+ 1

tomato coupe
03-01-2017, 12:14 PM
Not really because it's an opinion. I deal with facts, not opinions. Opinions and assholes - everyone has one and they are full of $hit.

In light of the situation (pun intended) I've been doing my own research on the subject and it is quite illuminating (pun intended). I see where you are coming from, but at the same time there are a lot more hazardous things in and around your home and workshop that need regulation. Or do they? I don't see people dropping dead from lack of regulations in other countries, in fact the birthrate seems to be rising while we coddle people and try to protect them from their own shadow.

That's amazing, since I haven't stated an opinion yet.


Most of the regulation seems to be aimed at (pun again) protecting airliner pilots from beam glare. While I agree this is an issue, it is one that is vastly overstated.

Absolutely incorrect.

dave_r
03-01-2017, 05:02 PM
That would be most interesting. While you're at it, what's the backstory on your username?

Probably a tragic auto-correct error.

RB211
03-01-2017, 09:22 PM
Not really because it's an opinion. I deal with facts, not opinions. Opinions and assholes - everyone has one and they are full of $hit.

In light of the situation (pun intended) I've been doing my own research on the subject and it is quite illuminating (pun intended). I see where you are coming from, but at the same time there are a lot more hazardous things in and around your home and workshop that need regulation. Or do they? I don't see people dropping dead from lack of regulations in other countries, in fact the birthrate seems to be rising while we coddle people and try to protect them from their own shadow.

Most of the regulation seems to be aimed at (pun again) protecting airliner pilots from beam glare. While I agree this is an issue, it is one that is vastly overstated. I have friends who fly commercially, and they say most reported "laser incidents" are simply reflections or glare from sunlight interacting with the aircraft or atmospheric conditions. You will notice that other countries don't have this problem or at least not to the point that they need to have page after page after page of regulations on novelty laser pointers.

Would you like my first hand experience getting "lasered" while flying a commercial airliner with your loved ones onboard, in the back? It wasn't fun, and your friends sound like they haven't experienced it.

macona
03-02-2017, 12:08 AM
But when it comes to matters like this I'm going to have to declare "bogus bogus." Possibly even bull$hit. Everything I have read so far indicates that certain people here are shooting from the hip and trolling for attention... grand sweeping statements about reporting things to Amazon and calling in the FDA smack of a small petty person with far too much time and not much sense.



Here you go, have fun. If you are going to dispute me at least refute what I have said instead of calling me names.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=66dc86b9b0495776b84af018311c4e04&mc=true&node=se21.8.1040_110&rgn=div8

https://www.rli.com/resources/articles/classification.aspx

Part of my job for years has been working with lasers, from setting up and building systems to maintaining and servicing very large (4+kw) systems.

-Jerry

tomato coupe
03-02-2017, 02:42 AM
That would be most interesting.

The OP has made it clear that he has no interest in hearing from anyone else on this subject.


While you're at it, what's the backstory on your username?

My username is car related ...

Black Forest
03-02-2017, 07:29 AM
We all know that Mr. Grumpy is special. He proves it every time he posts here.

Several as well as myself would be very interested in reading what you have to offer us on lasers tomato coupe. (strange name)

MichaelP
03-03-2017, 10:37 AM
BF, I guess I was fortunate to read your post before you edited it. Interesting choice of synonyms.:D

Tomato, please elaborate. Maybe you want to start a new thread, which would be understandable.
Thank you.

chipmaker4130
03-03-2017, 11:02 AM
. . .My username is car related ...

I thought it must be, but the 'tomato' still has me baffled! I've enjoyed your posts and find them concise, authoritative and articulate. You are one of the few who will stand up to the self-proclaimed experts without turning it into a shouting match.

Max McGrumpy
03-03-2017, 11:36 AM
After careful consideration I have directed the EPA and other "protection agencies" to this forum.

Given the nature of the chemicals people choose to work with in their own homes without due consideration, and the fact that people brag about dumping chemicals where they shouldn't, it is only a matter of time before the fun begins. Forum will probably be shut down, IPs pulled and visits made to the biggest offenders.

On top of that people here god forbid make GUN and GUN MODIFICATIONS. Given the political climate I'm surprised the anti-gun lobby hasn't shut this forum down. Good lord, unlicensed unregulated GUNS made without regard or control. That's going to go over sooooo well.

But hey gotta do it, I mean I'm the "special" person with the "problem" who asked for help with a project... and Macona decided to turn it into a personal attack... and George supports and encourages that kind of behavior. I'm the "special" one because I asked for help. I get it now. I'm not part of the clique so I'm the group punching-bag... lets torque him over his hobby because it's more fun than giving him actual usual advice. Not the first time this has happened since I've been posting here. I change my user name hoping people will let water flow under the bridge, but I see people are only interested in rehashing old business and picking up where we left off.

Because I'm "special."

Fantastic.

Lets dance.

Goal is to get as many HSM members in trouble with the law as possible, over absolutely petty $hit.

Special, hmm? You have no idea.

tomato coupe
03-03-2017, 12:50 PM
I thought it must be, but the 'tomato' still has me baffled!

Well, the story is a bit anti-climatic:

My previous username on various forums was "Shadidelsaba." I was frequently questioned about it, and some forum readers were apparently quite concerned with my (alleged) country of origin. One day I decided it would be best to change my username. At that moment, my wife walked into the office and stated "My car is making a funny noise. Can you look at it? I'm going to drive the 'tomato' today." The tomato was my red 1999 BMW M-Coupe. Hence the new username ...

I sold the car about a year ago, so I guess I should update my username to reflect my present daily driver, which my wife refers to as the "blaubeere." (German for blueberry.) Unfortunately, "blueberry-sports-car-but-sort-of-GT-car" doesn't really roll off the tongue.

P.S. Shadid el Saba is the name of one of my wife's horses, an Arabian. He has been cleared by Homeland Security.

RichR
03-03-2017, 01:34 PM
... I mean I'm the "special" person with the "problem" who asked for help with a project... and Macona decided to turn it into a personal attack...

We all know hindsight is 2020 since looking back in time things always appear much clearer. I thought I'd reread this thread from the beginning
and put that to the test. Everyone was playing nice until post #13, one of yours:


Good lord, that thing is illegal to sell in the US, its a Class IV device open without interlocks.

Make sure you wear eye protection for the laser whenever it is on, even a specular reflection is enough to cause permanent eye damage.

First thing I did was enclose three sides with plywood and build a shielded window for the front.

While you are on a self-righteous safety kick to protect people from themselves despite themselves let me give you a list of dangerous solvents, RF hazard and electrically unsafe items that are sold every day on Amazon. Lets get "real" now -- they are going to keep selling these despite your crusade. There are plenty of sites out there that show how to take the diode from one of these machines and mount it on the Prussa I3 frame... a lot of people are running open-frame 3D-printers with laser heads. In fact at least two manufacturers are selling this as a standard feature now and three more as option. Want the names and addresses of those companies too?

And while you are at it might as well shut down the 3D printing industry as well. Burn hazards, toxic ABS fumes, potential for thermal-runaway accidents... Not to mention people routinely soak parts in MEK and Tetrahydrofuran and acetone without a full suite of safety gear.

The extruder kit that makes filament is sold without any sort of interlock, and we all know how dangerous an extrusion line can be. Let me give you the address of the company that makes those.

The open-frame scanners that are popular for digitizing items use unshielded lasers and some use fairly bright strobe-lights too. I have a list of six such companies here you need to get these off the market.

[... SNIP ... Go to post #13 if you want to read the rest of the meltdown]
So your point was there are a lot of other dangers in the world irrelevant to this thread and unrelated to LASER safety.
You then continued your temper tantrum in posts #14 and 15.

The statements by macona which you quoted above were not an attack, not even close. Your persecution complex is unfounded
and here is why, the world does not revolve around you. This thread will be found and read by others in the future and hopefully
benefit them with good information. It's not always all about you, so get off your high horse and back onto your meds.


... and George supports and encourages that kind of behavior.
I seriously doubt George wishes to participate in anybodies alternate realities.

chipmaker4130
03-03-2017, 02:59 PM
. . . I guess I should update my username to reflect my present daily driver . . .

Na. It is unique. Keep it!

Paul Alciatore
03-03-2017, 03:47 PM
Yes, many sunglasses sold today are polarized. But often the polarization is not that good and is often present just so they can say they are polarized. With real polarizing filters if you stack two of them and turn them at right angles, you will see almost nothing through them. Try that with cheap "polarized" sunglasses and you will still have over 50% of the light coming through.

If you want a quick, in the store test to see if sunglasses lenses are polarized you can just look at some light reflected off a shiny surface. These reflections (glare) will contain a lot of polarized light. Look through the lens and rotate it by 90 degrees. If the glare decreases or increases as you rotate, then they are polarized. If it stays the same, they are not. This glare is the primary reason why polarized sunglasses are helpful. Light reflected off shiny surfaces, like auto windshields and the ocean waves, will contain a lot of polarized components and the polarized lenses will cut it down.

Decent polarizing filters can be purchased at photo supply stores and web optical sources like Edmund, Anchor, and others. They are not expensive, at least not all of them.




Lots of sunglasses now are polarized, even the cheap ones from wally world. try stacking both lenses and then turn one and see if the light passing through changes.

I have a tv above my 60w CO2 laser and was thinking about mounting a small camera inside the enclosure so that I could see it on the big screen. Im interested In what works well for you.

Doc Nickel
03-03-2017, 07:23 PM
One day I decided it would be best to change my username. At that moment, my wife walked into the office and stated "My car is making a funny noise. Can you look at it? I'm going to drive the 'tomato' today." The tomato was my red 1999 BMW M-Coupe. Hence the new username ...

-I'll just leave this here...

http://docsmachine.com/2017/tomato-coupe.jpg

:D

Doc.

tomato coupe
03-03-2017, 07:31 PM
-I'll just leave this here...

http://docsmachine.com/2017/tomato-coupe.jpg



Chicken dinner !!!!

oddball racing
03-03-2017, 08:26 PM
I have tried it on balsa. Balsa has a very large variation in density compared to weight so it wasn't very successful. If the balsa is much the same it can be cut reasonably well. It may well make a big difference what wavelength is used. I have tried red, green and near UV. The near UV worked the best. No idea how deep IR would work.
Evan, I have many years with CO2. Set it up like a cutting torch; piped in compressed air OR even minute amounts of oxy. as part of final optic holder. Loved doing customers balsa jobs, it worked VERY well. They were puzzles though. I always wondered about the future durability. Possibly another step in his process came after me.

oddball racing
03-03-2017, 08:32 PM
Chill Max!
I couldn't agree with you more but don't blow a fuse or a blood vessel over it.
It won't change anything. The sun will probably come up tomorrow.
Bill
Thank you. A very appropriate response.

macona
03-04-2017, 01:31 AM
Evan, I have many years with CO2. Set it up like a cutting torch; piped in compressed air OR even minute amounts of oxy. as part of final optic holder. Loved doing customers balsa jobs, it worked VERY well. They were puzzles though. I always wondered about the future durability. Possibly another step in his process came after me.

Yeah, balsa and the lighter, less dense woods cut very nice with little burning, the denser the wood you get, the more it burns. Oak is a mess. Also the baltic birch chars a bit but a lot of people like the effect.

Max McGrumpy
03-04-2017, 09:01 AM
Heeey...

Turns out the FDA has no jurisdiction over this specific situation imagine that.

Looks like we have a case of a so-called HSM-Expert talking out of his ass once again.

Might I suggest, Macona, doing some research on a subject before speaking. Now granted you may have several decades experience but I know for a fact you don't know everything. Despite your claims to the contrary. In this specific situation it would have taken you a few moments with google to understand a few things related to hobby-level laser hardware, import of such, and the FDA's stance on such things.

Or is that the problem? Because these lasers and the documentation regarding them are open and on the table for one and all to enjoy... you are no longer in a position to be The Expert(tm) on the subject? You would rather strut around making sweeping statements and threats than offer any real advice or help people enjoy the hobby.

Reach out to me via private message, macona. I'll be glad to elaborate further and show you why you are wrong. Spare you the humiliation of being wrecked in front of your fellow "HSM-Experts."

tomato coupe
03-04-2017, 12:59 PM
Heeey...

Turns out the FDA has no jurisdiction over this specific situation imagine that.

Might I suggest, Macona, doing some research on a subject before speaking. Reach out to me via private message ... I'll be glad to elaborate further and show you why you are wrong ... spare you the humiliation of being wrecked in front of your fellow "HSM-Experts."

I'm sure we would all hate to see Macona suffer irreparable psychological damage, however, I think it is a risk we must take. For the benefit of the HSM community, please post the information you have uncovered.

Black Forest
03-04-2017, 01:07 PM
George, can I change my post back to the original text before I edited it to be a nice guy? Bitte, he is begging for it!

Optics Curmudgeon
03-04-2017, 01:25 PM
Heeey

https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emittingproducts/radiationemittingproductsandprocedures/homebusinessandentertainment/laserproductsandinstruments/default.htm

ikdor
03-04-2017, 03:56 PM
....

edited: my mom once told me it was not nice to make fun of the mentally handicapped so I removed it again. I'll try to restrain myself next time.

MichaelP
03-04-2017, 11:25 PM
https://www.facebook.com/MaximumMoFo/posts/1715226172065828

Seasonal exacerbation. Cooling enema is due. It's on its way.