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View Full Version : What have I done ? OMG, what have I done ???



Dan_the_Chemist
03-03-2017, 03:51 PM
To a large extent it's your fault. Oh, maybe not the specific reader who is reading these words at this moment, but its the fault of this forum. You guys sold me on the idea that a shaper is a great tool for making anything (except money). I decided to get one.

So, I found one. No... not a sensible little 7" Delta or Atlas or Boxford shaper... NO... I had to go and buy a a shaper that could machine battleship armor.

http://i.imgur.com/SmkUgu4.jpg

This puppy has a 24" stroke and 26 1/2" of table travel. It's HUGE. It probably weighs 2 tons, or more.

http://i.imgur.com/wVIaEnQ.jpg

So why did I go so big? Well, first of all my shop is a converted barn so I have space... But more importantly, the Craigslist listing made it obvious that this was the tool of a machinist who loved his machines. He described buying in 1964, using it a lot, and then slowly using it less and less. The main reason he gave for selling it was that he is 75 and can't do as much anymore, and wanted to see it go to a good home instead of as scrap. What does that tell ya ??? It says he CARES about his machines. It says "FIND" to me. And the price ? Just a bit above scrap metal price, so I'm sure I gotta deal !!!!

So, I'm really excited, and I'll share this journey with you guys. The first part is going to be moving this beast. Ho-boy, it's gonna be a PITA. It's big, it's heavy, and I'm not young anymore myself. The challenges are just beginning.

Any advice on how to move it?

What have I done?

Dan_the_Chemist
03-03-2017, 03:54 PM
The stroke indicator... NO, that's not centimeters... that's INCHES

http://i.imgur.com/ketFMVK.jpg

mattthemuppet
03-03-2017, 03:56 PM
dang!

partsproduction
03-03-2017, 04:04 PM
What is the brand? Did I miss that? I love shapers.

Tony
03-03-2017, 04:04 PM
Congrats!

I'd like to place an order for 2x battleship armor, please. 24.5"x24.5".

(I also see some very long V blocks in your future.)

A.K. Boomer
03-03-2017, 04:05 PM
Fred Flintstone would be proud, in fact we'll just nick-name you "Barney" cuz your about to turn allot of things to Rubble...

Paul Alciatore
03-03-2017, 04:20 PM
Boy, that's neat. And for scrap prices. OK, I will be the first to say it, "You Suck!"

Congratulations! Now, before you move it, are you sure your floor (concrete slab?) can hold it?

As for moving, I think I would call a commercial mover. But that's me and I am only a couple of years short of your seller. My wife wants me to sell my machines too. NO WAY!

david a
03-03-2017, 04:27 PM
Here's how I moved mine, course it was "only" a 14 inch stroke machine weighing about 1 ton. (After I removed the 80 lb vise, table, motor & ram head that is.)
I bought a stick of Home depot 3/8" black iron pipe, cut it into 4 pieces a little longer than the base is wide. Then with a pinch bar, crow bar & wooden blocks, got the machine up on 3 pieces of pipe. Then it rolled easy as pie.
Move it till the rear pipe was about to come out, force it onto the 4th piece in the front, move along. I did use a couple 2 X 6's with blocking under them to get it up on the trailer, plus lots of prying & shoving to get it to take the incline. Unloading was just the reverse, plus a chain fall attached to the front of the trailer for a hold back. I put it in the garage, and put a 2 x 4 across the inner door way to pull it in with. Do what you can to lower the rear of the trailer, like digging holes for the wheels to go in or jacking up the front.
I moved a 50000lb Greaves H2 the same way. Neither job took more than half a day.
OR<,,Get it up on a skid & call one of those flat bed car haulers. But still take off what you can. Make it as "light" as possible.
Shapers are really cool to use, enjoy!!

A.K. Boomer
03-03-2017, 04:56 PM
I moved a 50000lb Greaves H2 the same way.

Now that's some machine,,, seriously surprised the pipe did not oval out...

10KPete
03-03-2017, 05:13 PM
This is very clearly a case of...


YOU SUCK

Pete

nc5a
03-03-2017, 05:21 PM
Dan, well done and even though the price isn't mentioned it's pretty clear you suck.

I borrowed a forklift with 48" forks and a lifting capacity of 3,750 lbs and it struggled (really struggled) to lift my 16" Gould & Eberhardt tool room shaper. Of course I didn't remove anything to make it lighter. When I set it back down it was on a re-enforced pallet so I could move it around with a pallet jack. I'm not too far behind the seller age wise so a forklift was the right choice for me. Good Luck.

Ron

Alistair Hosie
03-03-2017, 05:26 PM
Very nice indeed, I prefer the larger ones if given the choice . I have said it and guess what? I say it all yet again one of the nicest looking shapers was a nice big on John Stephenson sold. I had just bought a little Boxford, and after driving to Birmingham actually Leicester was in no mood to have two. Silly old Me! It was beautiful and had all bells and whistles on it. And his widely respected m'lud ship sold it very cheaply , albeit a number of years ago. They are surprisingly nice machines perhaps a little mesmerizing to watch, (over a long period) . So care is required not to wander ( in the cognitive regions) now and then. But I wish apart from it's footprint I had it now. God Bless the old gentleman. Alistair

Dan_the_Chemist
03-03-2017, 05:47 PM
What is the brand? Did I miss that? I love shapers.

Cincinnati

http://i.imgur.com/ZeX5kdz.jpg

Bob Ford
03-03-2017, 06:23 PM
Before you run it much you might want a chip catcher box around the table. That thing will throw red hot chips 20 feet. I have a little 8 inch and when doing heavy cuts the chips are everywhere.
Unless you are good at rigging hire a good moving crew they have the tools and knowledge.
Warning shapers are addictive.

Bob

BCRider
03-03-2017, 06:55 PM
Is this were we all add "I'm sorry"? :)

If you have the room and the 3 phase power to run it I'd say that is just about exactly the RIGHT size. And it will certainly keep the floor from being blown away when you forget to close the doors! ! ! ! And I foresee you ensuring that the path to the machine is clear for the hoist you will frequently be using with it.

I also think that with you having enough room for it that it's gone to just the right home. You are going to be impressed, amazed and amused at what it can do.

It looks like there are more than a few things there that need good homes. Clearly he's lacking the will and energy to sling any oil on the machines. I know it's only flash rust that will clean up nicely. But still it makes me sad to see.

thaiguzzi
03-03-2017, 10:20 PM
Very very nice.
Congrats.
Jealous.

RB211
03-03-2017, 10:45 PM
Nice

sewingmachine
03-03-2017, 11:01 PM
That is the way but I would use 3/4 or 1 " pipe . It would be handy to have your wife or a trusted friend to help move the rollers along. Remember pick them up with two fingers so you don't get caught. Shaper's are great machines and can do a lot of things.

sarge41
03-04-2017, 12:00 AM
Uh, where is the BIG shaper, In the pics, I only noticed a 24 incher. The caption said there was a BIG one somewhere. On some shapers I have seen, the ram would weigh as much as an entire 24 incher.
Seriously Dan, congrats on your new machine. We are all happy for you.
Sarge

jhe.1973
03-04-2017, 12:59 AM
Hi Dan,

Congratulations on the score. It looks really great!

I had to move a 16 inch G&E shaper a few years ago and posted a weight inquiry here:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/50090-Need-weight-for-16in-Gould-amp-Eberhardt-shaper?highlight=...shaper+weight

Received a lot of good responses and some moving advice. I was lucky, the seller had an endloader/backhoe that he lifted it with. He lowered it into a U-Haul double axle open trailer. Even with the backhoe at the rear end, the seller said he could feel the rear getting light from the shaper at the opposite end. I unloaded it w/my wrecker. The above link shows how I had blocked it into the trailer so it couldn't move. There were two 5/8 holes in the front that I could use as tie points.

Don't ask me how they got there!

I realize that yours has a longer stroke, but the G&E looks quite a bit more massive. I would suspect that the weights are fairly close to the same (4442 pounds for mine).

In post #11 of the mentioned thread, the center of the third photo down shows a coffee can that has ten 5/8 solid CRS bar ends. I use these a lot once on concrete but you have to keep track of them as they are easy to lose under a machine. On wood floors or planks on rough/soft ground I use 2 inch pipes.

If you are interested, this thread shows a quick & dirty toe jack I built for lifting machines (& my house):

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/71247-Saw-welder-and-shop-scraps-toe-jack-design

If you don't have experience moving heavy things I would seriously consider Bob Ford's suggestion:


............
Unless you are good at rigging hire a good moving crew they have the tools and knowledge.....
Bob

fastfire
03-04-2017, 01:19 AM
Well, you had that spot just waiting for it. The floor needed holding down didn't it?
NICE Machine!

carlquib
03-04-2017, 02:47 AM
I think your weight estimate might be a little light. My 16" is 4500 pounds with the vise mounted and the 36" is right below 10000. They are wonderful machines. Lathe tool grinds work for the most part. Make sure you check the clapper box for excessive play and tilt the clapper apron so the top of the clapper apron is set away from the surface being cut. One other tip, after doing a set up crank the machine through by hand to make sure you didn't inadvertently miss something during setup. Machines in this size class don't usually stop before something breaks.

Hello, my name is Brian and I'm a toolaholic

Black Forest
03-04-2017, 06:58 AM
That is a cool tool. I also have a 24" shaper that I consider to be a medium sized shaper. It was born in 1980 and I bought it from the original owner with only 100 hrs. on it he guessed.

It is really a nice machine to use. It is a Klopp brand which is made here in Germany. I can tell you from experience that it is a really good idea to cycle it by hand before pulling the power lever. Good experience comes from bad experience sort of. I sent my vise about two meters once when I first bought the machine. Since then I am very careful to make sure everything clears.

Black Forest
03-04-2017, 07:00 AM
Does your table rotate?

Ohio Mike
03-04-2017, 09:13 AM
Weight would have changed over the years and gotten heavier. I'd say this one was earlier but that's speculation without a serial number. If you have one we should be able to date it. By post war a 24 inch would weight between 5000-6500 pounds.

deltaenterprizes
03-04-2017, 09:54 AM
Get a roll back wrecker to move it, well worth the money!
I moved my mill and lathe with the help of a friend and his trailer . It took a day each to load and unload, the wrecker could have moved both in a day!

boslab
03-04-2017, 10:24 AM
In response to the OP, you did brilliantly, it's one of the finest machines I've ever used, I would love one.
Happy suck day to you, happy suck day to you, happy suck day dear Dan the chemist, happy suck day to yooou
Jealousy is definitely proportional to mass, I suppose suck=mass/$
Mark

Toolguy
03-04-2017, 10:48 AM
Major suckage Dan!:D boslab - I think your jealousy formula is correct. It's one of those little known, but handy, machinist formulas similar to - The angle of the dangle=the heat of the meat x the mass of the ass.

blckbx
03-04-2017, 11:03 AM
That feeling when someone has a tool you don't have. I know i don't need one, I haven't got the room for one, no way...........

just have a little look on ebay.......

Robin R
03-04-2017, 04:44 PM
That is an older lineshaft machine with a motor and gearbox conversion, so will be considerably lighter than a newer one. I have a 16" Alba shaper that is a similar age, with the same sort of coversion from lineshaft. Mine weighs about 2200#'s, so you should recon on a couple of tons for a 24" shaper from that era.

jamby
03-08-2017, 08:51 PM
If your going to get one much bigger that this one, maybe you want to get a planner?

Jim