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View Full Version : Quetion for the Brits about paint.



loose nut
03-04-2017, 06:09 PM
Reading old Model Engineer mags usually has quotes about the paint they used for models IE:cellulose paint. Is that just an oil based lacquer or is it something else altogether.

John Stevenson
03-04-2017, 06:23 PM
No cellulose paint is a solvent based paint.
It's what they use to paint cars with before 2 pack and water based paints came out. you just need paint and cellulose thinners.
Best the apply by spray as it dries very fast.

ww_big_al
03-04-2017, 08:49 PM
Sounds like what we yanks call a Solvent-based Nitrocellulose lacquer or just lacquer. Not to be confused with water base lacquer.

loose nut
03-05-2017, 09:11 AM
OK thanks

scooterist007
03-06-2017, 06:52 AM
The cellulose thinners are a solvent and used to be used in paints, the idea being that the paint is a liquid and when applied the cellulose thinners solvent will evaporate leaving the paint to harden, it isn't really used anymore because of the fumes which are not good for you or the environment, water base paints are a two pack system which is a paint and a hardener, and the hardener is isocyanate based so you have to wear full suits and masks or you will get cyanide poisoning

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Magicniner
03-06-2017, 07:55 AM
The cellulose thinners are a solvent and used to be used in paints, the idea being that the paint is a liquid and when applied the cellulose thinners solvent will evaporate leaving the paint to harden, it isn't really used anymore because of the fumes which are not good for you or the environment, water base paints are a two pack system which is a paint and a hardener, and the hardener is isocyanate based so you have to wear full suits and masks or you will get cyanide poisoning

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That's a really incomplete history, even this is an inadequate synopsis - oils (brushed, then hot-pot spraying ;-))preceded nitrocellulose ,air dry acrylics followed Nitrocellulose. Then 2 Pack Polyurethanes (2K) prevailed, water based don't yet perform as well as 2K as evidenced by the atrocious orange peel finishes on current production cars and the vulnerability of water based paints to damage from relatively short term contact with bird poo - something which should render any automotive finish not fit for purpose.

Jim Williams
03-06-2017, 09:01 AM
During World War I, the Dreyfus brothers in the USA supplied cellulose acetate dope for painting fabric covered fighter aircraft. When the war ended, they found themselves with a dope factory and no market for their product. They developed the ability to spin the dope into fiber using a solution spinning technique they created. Their company became Celanese, which still produces cellulose acetate. Possibily the largest market for cellulose acetate is for cigarette filters. The brilliant satin fabric from some woven acetate is popular for wedding dresses and casket liners.

Jim Williams

boslab
03-06-2017, 09:23 AM
Really old tins of celly paint are dangerous, I opened a tin and it exploded, frightened the **** out of me as you don't expect paint to go bang (racing green btw.)
I think it's still a good paint besides the VOC being as high as you can get, spend a few hours spraying it and you get fairly high too, esp if you add cyclohexane to stop silicone reaction ( pears in a bottle)
Probably cancerous as a bonus
Mark
Btw the old rolls royces used "coach paint" the coating was soft, the sprayer showed me, you could leave a thumb nail print in it

scooterist007
03-06-2017, 09:42 AM
That's a really incomplete history, even this is an inadequate synopsis - oils (brushed, then hot-pot spraying ;-))preceded nitrocellulose ,air dry acrylics followed Nitrocellulose. Then 2 Pack Polyurethanes (2K) prevailed, water based don't yet perform as well as 2K as evidenced by the atrocious orange peel finishes on current production cars and the vulnerability of water based paints to damage from relatively short term contact with bird poo - something which should render any automotive finish not fit for purpose.
I wasn't intending to give a complete history, I was giving a brief introduction to what the op asked for, also I wasn't even suggesting that 2k was a adequate replacement for cellulose, I didn't introduce the ban! The history of paints is a large and diverse range and something that isn't going to be explained in a few words

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loose nut
03-06-2017, 09:51 AM
So what is a good replacement for painting models (model engineering models IE: metals, not the plastic kit stuff) in a home shop that has the same look as a good lacquer. Humbrol paint is a good enamel, is there anything better for this.

Baz
03-06-2017, 05:32 PM
I think enamel has always been the preferred choice. People only used cellulose because it was readily available in spray cans and didn't have spray sets.