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aboard_epsilon
03-08-2017, 09:59 AM
So I decided not to go with the idea of adapting the bridgeport to grind things ..

and got to work on my Klaiber WS1 tool and cutter grinder, which I bought in 2005

link to page lathes .co.uk

http://www.lathes.co.uk/frikla/

it's up and running ..presently lubed with mobil DTE light

First I need to make a few things for it ....pulley set that revolves around dead centre leaving the dead centre motionless. More about that later

Main problem is the oil for the spindle...manual recommends mobil vactra 2..which as far as I know is slideway oil

Would you put this oil in the spindle bearings?

it recommends this for the other later model as well, the ws2

Mine has a spindle speed of 5600 rpm and the ws2 is two speed with the fastest being over 8000 rpm

Oil is a total loss system

Page from manual and diagram of spindle - ignore (hv1 hv2 ,vs , hs) which is a different machine.

lube chart

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/Klaiber/Bedienungsanl_20Maschinenkarte_0007_zpstyfhgues.jp g (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/Klaiber/Bedienungsanl_20Maschinenkarte_0007_zpstyfhgues.jp g.html)

here's the spindle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/Klaiber/Bedienungsanl_20Maschinenkarte_0006_zpsdi1djasb.jp g (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/Klaiber/Bedienungsanl_20Maschinenkarte_0006_zpsdi1djasb.jp g.html)

All the best.mark

Euph0ny
03-08-2017, 10:23 AM
I think you are misreading the instructions. They list Mobil Vactra 2 to lubricate the ways (Gleitbahnen, Fuhrungen) and the gear train of the table (Getriebe für Tischtransport). For lubricating the spindle bearings, the listed Mobil product is Velocite Oil No. 6, which is indeed spindle oil:

http://www.mobil.com/english-US/Industrial/pds/GLXXMobil-Velocite-Oil-No-Series

The instructions next to the schematic of the spindle read: "2-3 good squirts of oil daily through oil nipple no 17. Use only good, low-viscosity oil, such as Esso - Millcot - K50. Avoid overlubrication as the bearings will overheat. Do not use grease!"

aboard_epsilon
03-08-2017, 11:31 AM
OK thanks.

I reading across the table looking at the vertical lines that join things up

I did try and convert what it said in the picture of the spindle ..but what I translated wasn't clear at all or as precise as you've just explained.

I need about a gallon..so I don't have to chase after it for years ...just phoned up local oil distributors, mobil only do 20 litres at £100
ebay ..seems expensive with very small quantities

my oil distributor ....said HVI iso10 fork oil may do. £10 a litre
and just plain iso10 hydraulic is about £15 a gallon


all the best..mark

Euph0ny
03-08-2017, 01:56 PM
I did try and convert what it said in the picture of the spindle ..but what I translated wasn't clear at all or as precise as you've just explained.

I only translated the lower part, on "Wartung" (Maintenance). The upper text explains how to dismantle the spindle. If you need to know that, post here and I'll have a crack at that too.

aboard_epsilon
03-08-2017, 03:00 PM
That depends on how easily you can do it.
I take it that Germans your fist language ..heard they have four languages in Belgium
if typing is not hard work for you
if it is you don't need to apologise

just say no

this :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ces1u57l6b51447/Manual.pdf?dl=0

I don't know what's in the above ..may be a lot of stuff I already know ..or silly stuff like how to unpack the machine

all the best.markj

Euph0ny
03-09-2017, 02:04 PM
That depends on how easily you can do it.
I take it that Germans your fist language ..heard they have four languages in Belgium
if typing is not hard work for you
if it is you don't need to apologise

just say no

this :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ces1u57l6b51447/Manual.pdf?dl=0

I don't know what's in the above ..may be a lot of stuff I already know ..or silly stuff like how to unpack the machine

all the best.markj

Mark, I'll have a go, other work permitting. It might take some time. I'll start by gving you something like an overview of what's in the manual, so I don't waste time translating stuff you would know anyway. OK?

aboard_epsilon
03-09-2017, 04:12 PM
That's brilliant ..I have all the time in the world

I have tried the covert to text OCR thing as they are jpegs within a pdf
tried several
it did not work out very well ..because then I had to use the translators
the translation was hopeless ..and everything was mixed up and not comprehend-able

oh and BTW ..millcot equivalents ( the stuff quoted at the side of the spindle drawing) now nearest grade is 68 and its equivalent to slideway oil...am I going nuts?

top of page 79
http://www.transitlubes.com/cms/Transitfiles/PDF/ComparisonProductLines/Esso_Comparison_2010.pdf


tell me something ..is that spindle drawing of the ws1 or ws2 or are they the same .

and different chart from the manual ..shows vactra 2 lining up ws1 and ws2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/Klaiber/oil%20chart%20copy_zpsra3u06w2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/Klaiber/oil%20chart%20copy_zpsra3u06w2.jpg.html)

all the best.markj

Ian B
03-10-2017, 02:25 AM
Mark,

I'd think that a good ISO68 machine oil would be fine for this application. Shell Vitrea 33 37 would be good. Snag it, it only seems to get sold in 20 liter and above quantities, whereas you only need 5L. There are plenty of equivalents - here's one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Shell-Vitrea-33-37-Equivalent-Machine-Oil-ISO-68-5-Litres-5l-UK-Product/1874923615 - 5 liters, in the UK.

And if all I had on hand was an ISO68 hydraulic oil, I'd probably use that and call it good. I'd think that having the right amount of clean oil of the right viscosity machine oil in there is more important than an exact make or type.

Hth,

Ian

aboard_epsilon
03-10-2017, 07:58 AM
I've already done some tests on it under no load spinning freely with Mobil dte light

I was over oiling it -as well, taking the nipple out and squirting oil directly in, a good flush out was needed ..you could actually see the oil mist coming out of the ends of the spindle...perhaps indicating that the oil was too thin to stay in there,
after over one hour running the spindle barely got warm.

so I have some 68 slideway ..will try that over one hour ..monitoring it ..if no heat is produced, will assume the oil is doing a good job and is the correct grade...I will however then purchase not slideway but strait grade iso 68 hydraulic, which is £12 a gallon.
if heat is apparent in the above test ...then it's back to the drawing board!
all the best.markj

aboard_epsilon
03-10-2017, 08:17 AM
Test started with slideway 68

vast improvement to the machine

it's quieter and has less vibration.

Ian B
03-10-2017, 08:23 AM
Just a thought Mark - I read this: https://highspeedtechnologies.com/what-lubrication-should-i-use/ - they say that for up to 12k rpm (and sometimes even 60K rpm), grease is fine. Might be simpler than using oils?

Ian

aboard_epsilon
03-10-2017, 09:17 AM
But those spindles containing grease have enclosed bearings with a seal each side of them !.....

it's worked out ok

Test finished ..it is warmer ..but no more than 45 degrees c, ..human body temp is 37.5

and I put in about a table spoon of oil.. not drops so over filled, no oil mist came out of the end of the spindle. so oil is being retained.
I'll expect when it looses its overfilled status ..every thing should be fine.

I like oil ..leaks out and takes with it the contaminants ...with a grinder ..maybe a good idea. maybe ill get one of those nice brass and glass drip oil feeders for it.

all the best.markj