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bernie
07-31-2004, 05:59 PM
Hello Everyone:

Just got back from the "Thresthermans Reunion" and had a very interesting time. It's held anually in Austin Manitoba. Here's the one I couldn't stay away from: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/bernieb/Austin/My%20Favorite/Austin036.jpg

For those who would like to see more of this streamer go here: http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/bernieb/Austin/My%20Favorite/

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited 07-31-2004).]

x39
07-31-2004, 06:34 PM
That's a sweetheart fer sure!

alcova
07-31-2004, 10:15 PM
I thought it was great that he used Snow Mobile tracks on the driving wheels

Al Messer
07-31-2004, 10:18 PM
Ooooo! Nice! Thanks for sharing with us.

TARHEEL
08-02-2004, 12:59 AM
Great Pictures !!
There was a similar rig at the Cumming, GA show last November and I couldn't stay away from it either.

Do you have any more pictures of the sawmill that you could post? I have not seen one set up quite like this.

wierdscience
08-02-2004, 07:02 AM
Super neat,that kinda stuff takes alot of time,guess I'll have to wait til I'm retireded http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

ibewgypsie
08-02-2004, 11:21 AM
The FLASH type boilers, they are spiral coils of schedule 80 boiler pipe with collectors on the ends. The heat goes through the spirals transferring into the water/steam. This is the most efficient type system I have saw. The next better system used DOWTHERM as a transfer meduim. I don't like that stuff thou.

I want to build at least one in my life. I have someone calling me about a reclaimation system using methane off a septic system with added heat from natural gas. He wants to store heat and produce light electricity when his solar is down.

I'd like a steam engine to turn my old lineshaft type drill press. Even if it ran on air it'd be neat.

David

wierdscience
08-02-2004, 08:50 PM
Dave,I have you seen the waste heat setups that are out there? The simplist one I saw was a guy who ran two spiral coils of 3/4" soft copper tubing up the length of his woodstove flue pipe,from what I read he was able to make all the hot water and steam he wanted,had his safty valve set at 125psi,plenty to run a simple steam engine,neat thing would be to have a double or triple expansion engine to use the full cycle.

ibewgypsie
08-03-2004, 07:27 AM
Even if you just ran a small car altenator charging a battery. It'd be a improvement. When the heat is transferred inside the house it is "no lose" situation, it still heats the house.

The rental house we had in town, it had a boiler with radiators all through the house. I wonder if there would be a gain there? I am not sure what kind of system that was thou, probably just a hotwater heater. It sure heated the house well.

David

ibewgypsie
08-03-2004, 06:08 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30&item=5912096954&rd=1

Traction engine model on ebay

Kansas_Farmer
08-04-2004, 11:24 PM
Nice Sawyer-Massey.

Here's ours..

3/5ths 16-48 Russel with its older brother right beside it
http://www.networksplus.net/threshershow/picts/yr2000/steamer-race-05.jpg

1/3rd 65hp Case (22-48 Compound Advance and a 12t Buffalo-Springfield roller in background)
http://www.networksplus.net/threshershow/picts/yr2000/steamer-05.jpg


Full Scale 1916 50hp Case (mine)

http://www.networksplus.net/threshershow/picts/yr2000/steamer-case-01.jpg



[This message has been edited by Kansas_Farmer (edited 08-04-2004).]

ibewgypsie
08-04-2004, 11:32 PM
From someone who was raised in the suburbs all I can say IS WOW.

Never got to play on one of them, thou as a teenager I got to climb up into the General steam locomotive. I wished I had looked more and taken pictures.

It was on a side rail next to OUR street/drag strip we used. The granite slab is still there, thou the train has been stolen away.

ON the RFDTV show the steam tractor was pulling a 8 point turning plow. They said before it was reduced from 185 psi to 100 it would pull 12.. geeze.. now that is pulling power..

David

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 08-04-2004).]

Kansas_Farmer
08-05-2004, 02:21 PM
David,

Come out to our show next year and I'll personally see that you can do all the work you want to with me on these engines. If you or anyone else wants to, we'll have you on board the engines and operating them.

I've been working at this show for 25 years now. I'm a licenced operator and boiler inspector. We'd be more than happy to get ya on board and your hands dirty.

Send me an email if you want more info.

Brendonh<deletethis>@atcjet.net

Thanks~

bernie
08-05-2004, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the interest and comments. I really enjoyed the show as it has been about 30 years since i last attended this one. I thought that i had lots of pictures of his sawmill but I don't. Lots more pics pf the show at: http://photobucket.com/albums/1003/bernieb/Austin/

Kansas Farmer I really like you pics as well. Thanks for sharing.

Dusty
08-05-2004, 08:21 PM
For anyone in the Midwest the Badger Steam and Gas Engine Show(Baraboo, WI), is in a few weeks. I'm not affiliated with the show, but go every year. They've got an impressive setup. Threshing, saw mills, blacksmith shop, woodworking shop. Of course there's plenty of steam, and petroleum engines, even a few large stirlings. I have even found some good tools at various shows.

Kansas_Farmer what's required to become a licensed operator and inspector in your state?

Kansas_Farmer
08-05-2004, 09:31 PM
For an operator, a simple open book test and some pratical 1 on 1 time with someone who is. The practical test is more important than the book test.

For Inspection, I had to take a closed book test and a practical test with a licenced inspector.

Carl
08-06-2004, 01:15 AM
Steam traction engine present at the antique tractor pull I attended last weekend at the Chaffee County Fair at Poncha Springs Colorado.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/lathefan/366d2bdf.jpg

kap pullen
08-06-2004, 02:49 PM
They aren't like you Kansas farmers back east.

I had to build mine (1/2 Terning Case) to get a ride on one.

Did you know Tom?
kap

Kansas_Farmer
08-06-2004, 09:25 PM
I didn't/don't know Tom, but I know his work. A good friend of mine knows him. He built a 1/2 scale 110 that used to come up to our show some years back. I only saw it once, but I've wanted it ever since.

There's a 1/2 scale on ebay right now, nice but I don't have the 5500 its at to get it.

BTW, we also have a 110 Minnie, but alas I don't have any pictures of it handy. She set cold this year, no one to run it. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

ibewgypsie
08-06-2004, 09:54 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2594&item=5913120976&rd=1

Looks to be a pretty good deal considering all the work..

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[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 11-09-2005).]

John Stevenson
08-07-2004, 05:10 AM
A few years ago the local scap man pulled an old roller out of a field and started to restore it.
Because we had had so much help from him over the years we also chipped in.
This was a 1910 Fowler that was working up until 1966 here in the UK.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/fowler.jpg

Once restored we used to take it to local rallies.
On the odd weekend when there wasn't a rallies we used to take it down the local pub.

Funny thing, when we pulled up the car park would be full, by the time we were ready to reverse in it would be empty ??
Never worked that one out http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

We ran and maintained this for about 8 years but when they closed the big scrap yard and disposed of the tractor units and trailers it became very expensive to run this privately and so it was sold.

One of my best memorys of this engine was when we were asked to attend a private function at a very exclusive school open day.
There were all sort of stalls there and we were geting some funny looks as only being 6 mies away we had roaded the engine there and were rather grimy.

We noticed as we walked thru that people were darting to one stall, picking a sheepskin jacket up and putting it down.
When we got there out of interest Malc, the scrappy picked it up to look at it.

It was a reject with a normal body but short skinny sleeves.
Malc asked "How much?" was told a pound, paid it, whipped out a 8" bowie knife, hacked the sleeves off, threw them back on the stall , put the jerkin on and carried on walking round the stalls.

Some rather amusing expressions followed him http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif


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John S.
Nottingham, England

ibewgypsie
08-07-2004, 07:44 AM
QUestion:
John: Kansas_farmer: AND others...

For all us generation that has never been around steam power it is a awe inspiring thing.

Why exactly did it go away? The books I have read say that the stanley steamers and other quick boilers competed pretty well.

Using the triple expansion type engine the losses look to be small.

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David

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 08-07-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 11-09-2005).]

John Stevenson
08-07-2004, 08:06 AM
IBEW,
Just technology and progress.
What people don't realise is the amount of lost time getting these ready and I'm talking about using them commercially.
Having to start out probably two hours earlier than a pertrol or diesel lorry to fire up,
very frequent stops for water, usually a two man crew to operate all added a nail to the coffin.

Deep draw plowing was probably one of the last to go over here.
In this they used two engines either side the field and pulled a multi tyne plow back and forwards by a large winch drum under each engine.
These could pull a plow down into the soil to a depth of 3 feet, something a tractor of the day couldn't do.
This was usually done every three of four years to get fresh soil to the surface.

Modern fertilizers have done away with deep plowing and tractors can cope now better and faster.

A plowing team would have at least three men and a boy, two drivers, one plow man and the boy to mash tea.

Fortunalty a lot of these engines have survived and are in good hands but it takes an enormous amount of money and effort to move and show these.

Very few rallies are withing roading distance for all the engines so 32 ton artics with low loader trailers are a must.
If you don't have a valid reason to operate these like a haulage company then just owning one of these privately is a job on it's own.

When was involved with the Fowler, Kate, we were fortunate in that Malc was running two Scania artics for the scrap business. Once that ceased to operate one of these privatly would have been out of the question.
The road tax at that time for one year was just over £2,000

You get either appearance money or free coal at a rally but the money doesn't go anywhere near what's need to even maintain an engine as regards liability insurance and boiler inspections.


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John S.
Nottingham, England

ibewgypsie
08-07-2004, 08:22 AM
I still don't understand John,

If I had $5,000 in pocket I could bring a example of what I mean to patent. On paper it works. In very small experiments it works.

Mileage is not as good as a gas burner, but the fuel is 2/3rds cheaper, boiler can be brought up to pressure in 90 seconds.

Does anyone know of any goverment grants or loans? My credentials as a instrumentation/controls specialist are established, as is my past history of success.

I hate to see the world keep drinking oil and polluting the earth. I am not a green-peace kind of guy but I do like money. (to buy more toys)

Steam is real power from what I can see, and the spin offs, the money.. *the sailboats, the custom bikes, the .... Plus it'd be nice to get my name up there in the history books with James Watts....

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-07-2004, 07:37 PM
For these old tech boilers, John is on the money. Out here on the Great Plains, we used them to bust sod with 12 bottom plows. Gas burners weren't very reliable and the lack of available gasoline to run them on allowed the steamers to flourish. However, steam engines were only a stop gap measure. Most of them had been replaced by 1920 with more reliable gas tractors. There were enough places to get fuel for them, the railroads where in place to get them delivered to dealerships and they were alot less work to get running when you wanted to take them to the field. Water is hard to find out here and the one thing you must have if you want a steamer to do anything. Add to that the fact that it takes 3-4 hours building fire to get steam up the first time and about 1 to 1.5 hours the next day after you've used it once. Another thing that killed the Steam Engine was the Combine. In 1920, The Holt-Caterpillar Company took a thresh machine and a McCormick Binder and "Combined" them into 1 machine. Suddenly we didn't need a separate thresh machine to harvest grain. Steam engines were really only good for belt work or plowing. This climate out here wasn't and isn't suited for plowing (reference the dust bowl of the 30's). Gas tractors were 1/2 the size and weight for the same drawbar HP of a steam engine.

That being said, the first "Custom Harvesters" were threshermen. Some of them would road a steam engine pulling their threshers from Texas and roll north all the way to Nebraska. I knew some older ladies that were kids of some of these threshermen, and the stories they could tell of the trips are amazing.

Steam seems to be a forgotten technology in an automotive application. I think personally with todays technology applied to steam theory, one could come up with a very efficient engine to run a car on. The boiler is the problem. It would almost certainly need to be a water tube type to allow for a quick heating.

Here are a couple of pictures of the last remaining fully operational 1922 Holt Self-Propelled combines in the country.

http://users.atcjet.net/b/brendonh/public_html/HPIM0054.JPG

http://users.atcjet.net/b/brendonh/public_html/HPIM0077.JPG

AFAIK there are only 3 of these left in the US, and 2 of them are in museums.

ibewgypsie
08-07-2004, 08:13 PM
AND? if I can build you a lightweight boiler that comes up to pressure in under 90 seconds? I'd need a conventional steam engine to run it on. Peferably a triple expansion.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif all proven technology.

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-07-2004, 10:12 PM
Yup, and I'd be all over it. I love a steam engine, and finally a source of steam for my whistles, since air just doesn't do them justice.

Ok, so you've given me a boiler. What's max PSI on this thing? State laws read it'll have to be inspected every year and be certified since it's a pressure vessel. So I'll have to take my car to a boiler inspector every year to get it licenced. That might be a pain.

Triple expansion is a good idea, except for all the moving parts. It would be interesting to see how long an engine built today would last under steam operation. The old engines are built from cast and are about 500% overbuilt. They only turn over at about 200 RPM max. That's something else to consider, max RPM on a recip steamer isn't all that high, so we're going to have to have a large tranny behind it. I like the idea, just have a few kinks to work out.

Quiz time: Name 2 forms of power that provide instantanious maximum torque.

Carl
08-08-2004, 12:55 AM
The railroads adopted diesel-electric locomotives because of the maintenance down time involved with steam locomotives. On average a steam locomotive was out of service for maintenance 15 days out of a 30 day month. Diesel-electrics average one day per month. Also diesel-electric locomotives develop maximum tractive effort and horsepower output at a lower track speed than a steamer.

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 01:47 AM
Carl, I know nothing about the specs of a Diesel-Electric. What kind of power are they using to drive the traction motors? Are those motors DC series wound? I suppose they arn't, prolly 3 phase AC at some ungodly voltage.

Anyway, HP isn't a huge thing for me, torque numbers are what I'm interested in and something that builds high torque at low rpm floats my boat just fine. They get the job done and tend to last along time. "Build it heavy and turn it slow" type of thing. That theory flys in the face of modern engine theory of build it light and turn it fast. They use RPM to artifically raise the torque values. RPM engines are typically lighter and less expensive to build/operate. Metalurgy has allowed them to last a fair amount of time, however IMO they are still throw away engines.

I think diesels are more efficient today simply because no one has taken the time to invest some modern techonolgy in boilers. Fix that problem and steam returns. Aside from ship and powerplants, steam is dead, simply because the boiler had to be so huge and heavy to be able to sustain pressure under high power requirements. Take the Challenger series for instance....Look at that boiler, its huge! Steam power after you've generated it is extremly efficient mainly due to the expansive quailties of steam. Loco's and our steam tractors had valve gears on them that would allow the engineer to modify their open port duration during the power stroke. They could "hook up" the engine and cut off live steam feed to the cylinder well before the piston had seen its full length of travel. Steam, even after the live feed has been cut off will continue to expand and apply force against the piston. Using this theory, they were able to use less live steam based on the power required during that particular time of the engine operation. This is why a triple expansion engine was built. You'll see that on steam tractors when they run the "compound single cylinder" engine. A small bore high pressure cylinder exhausts into a large bore low pressure cylinder, then the steam sees the stack.

I think, most of the feed water could be reused if a suitable condensor could be devolped, thus increasing the time between water stops. The other concern is the boilers ability to deal with dirty or contaminated water. Water that foams can cause priming (only in a fire tube boiler though), and we all know that you can't compress a liquid.

Even if we did have a perfect automotive boiler, I wonder about the engine. A triple expansion type engine today would have to turn 4000 RPM to use available tranny's and be competitive. What kind of valve gear are we going to run, because using a simple D valve gear won't take that kind of RPM. It'll fly apart long before it ever saw 1000. I wonder if you can admit steam to the cylinder, have it expand and provide power, then exhaust it in 1/100th of a second (engine turning 3000 RPM and these are double acting cylinders). If we can't, then we have to have a tranny that will turn 500 RPM and a huge amount of torque into 75-90 MPH, and that's going to take a lot of gears.

[This message has been edited by Kansas_Farmer (edited 08-08-2004).]

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 07:29 AM
SO"? I not only have to build the boiler but also the valve train in the engine.

I have had my eye on this diesel volkswagon rabbit (doesn't run and cheap), the diesel block is much stronger than a gas burner. Valving will have to be redone as a head built. I wonder about sleeving down the remaining cylinders?

Have you read about the hydraulic car that got 76 mpg? it stored pressure in a accumulator. All the controls were pressure operated, a plc or pic chip could do so much better. The hydraulic shop siezed it for labor liens.

The test car ran on a 8hp lawnmower type engine with sun-gear rotor hyd motor. It'd burst up to 80mph in nearly as fast as a gt mustang, it also stored energy in a hyd accumulator. It was built on a vw chassis, nothing extravagant. (mother earth news in 80s)

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 07:46 AM
Well if I have to get silly with this? How about the crankshaftless engine?

A piston in a captive cylinder, steam on one end and hydraulic oil on other end, steam piston goes down, connected hyd piston pressurized oil goes to hyd controls/accumulator after hall effect picks up bottom dead it exhausts to atmosphere and pressurized oil (keeps foam down) returns piston to tdc for another stroke. One way check balls control direction of oil in hyd end. You could build a 8 cylinder engine in smaller area than the current v8s of today.

NO rotating loss. Motor only runs when needed, pistons only run as needed. Little loss, no idling loss.

COntrol scheme is to maintain two pressure level (1) with pump, regenerative braking builds to higher level (2), anything above level (1) the motor does not run.

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 12:16 PM
How about a steam turbine to drive a generator and dc series wound motors to drive the tires?

I think cars will migrate to some from of <?>-Electric propulsion systems.


A water tube boiler that makes 5000 psi, a small 5 stage turbine, and a generator, some batteries or large capacitors to store a charge. Now all you have to do is build me that boiler and a condensor.

bernie
08-08-2004, 12:43 PM
Kansas_Farmer:

Funny you should mention the early threshermen, my Grandfather was one of the first custom harvesters in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. He had a very large outfit that the federal government would hire and transport by train to different locations to do the harvesting. It ended up being sold in Kipling Sask. I do have a photo of the outfit and will scan and post it when I get it back. I've sent it to a friend of my wife's who does custon framing. The photo itself is very unusual, it's about 5" tall and about 12" wide.

Evan
08-08-2004, 01:00 PM
Kansas Farmer,

You can't compare IC engines and their HP ratings to steam or diesel-electric. Diesel-electric powerplants don't use any sort of poly-phase, they use DC motors. A DC motor has in common with a steam engine that they both generate maximum torque at zero rpm. This is what makes them suitable for traction engine jobs including locomotives. You need maximum effort at zero speed to get things moving. An Otto cycle IC engine cannot run at zero rpm so HP comparisons are meaningless. If you want to power an automobile with a steam engine you would use no transmission at all. The only theoretical speed limit to a steam engine besides the mechanical limitations is the expansion of steam in the cylinder which is limited by the speed of sound.

Dave Opincarne
08-08-2004, 01:14 PM
One reason deisel replaced steam was the increasing size of the trains. Steam engines could not be easily linked together but had to be made bigger. They reached a size that exeded their ability to pass through a moderate turn or turnout. Electric, diesels, and D-E could be easily coupled together to pull the ever increasing large trains.

Dave

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 01:25 PM
Storage of electrical energy requires heavy and expensive batteries. Steam and hydraulic accumulators are relativly cheap.

I Think I prefer the hydraulics and accumulator. I was thinking the pistons/cylinders could even be a part of the frame structure. Talk about crash stiffness, a small car could resist impact like a 3/4 ton truck w/real frame.
CYlinders would not be limited to short strokes, two five foot cylinders could be the frame rails.
Imagine the possibilities, steam hydraulic pressure generator, accumulator to store braking lost energy, and possibly a small gas engine to help it along. You'd have a dual fuel vehicle that would run with everything on the road. IF you sized the hyd motors properly you could run each wheel (4wd) and regenerate by valving change.

WHOO HOO.. I just got a call to go back to my profession as a instrument tech.. Nuclear plant thou.. I got the letter today outa the box.. Nice to be wanted.

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 01:47 PM
Evan, I know that. You also answered my quiz question correctly. But its because of mechanical limitations you have to use a transmission. I don't care how much power a steam engine creates if it can't turn more than 400 RPM it's not going to work in a car that needs to go from 0 MPH to 100 MPH and in reverse. Reverse is easy, spin the motor backwards. Steam engine Theory is fine to not have a tranny, but there isn't a material in the world that would allow you to do what you are say needs to happen. Hence, you have an engine that has a 0-400 RPM range. I'm not using the tranny to compensate for a lack of HP or Torque at a given RPM like an IC engine does. I'm using it to increase tire rpm because my engine can't spin that fast without mechanically comming apart.

[This message has been edited by Kansas_Farmer (edited 08-08-2004).]

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 02:01 PM
Ok IBEW, lets do this then, a standard triple expansion engine driving a axial hyd pump to drive hyd motors on wheels and charge an accumulator. Keep the regen braking also. The steam engine can run at low rpm and live, only runs when we need it and we can generate huge pressures both in the boiler and in the hyd system. Or, throw away the recip and add a turbine that turns the pump. Sound like a fair idea?

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 02:14 PM
What and use off the shelf parts to come to "goverment grant" qualifications quickly?

Sounds good to me. Do you have a line on some govt. money?



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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 02:49 PM
Nope no line in any money, I'm a farmer remember..lol. I just have some ideas on things, but never any way to implement them.

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 02:55 PM
Yeah me too..

I got this boiler design, Looks great calculator and technique, The two people I have let in on it call me daily wanting a piece of "things to come". (one wanted to mortgage his house)

But, being tattooed and crooked nosed it is hard to get to anyone with investment money. I was hoping you had real good connections in the steam community. (and you'd go along for the ride too)

I used to be called a Engineer, then I started getting heavily tattooed.. Now I am a electrician.. Ohh shucks..

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Evan
08-08-2004, 04:41 PM
Hey David, so many people have tattoos these days maybe you will become an engineer again http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Farmer,

Where do you arrive at a limit of 400 rpm? If an IC engine can turn 10K why not a steam engine? I can't think of any intrinsic reason why not. The Stanley Steamer hit 197mph using direct drive with no gearing or transmission save a reversing gear.

Alistair Hosie
08-08-2004, 05:02 PM
Hey Dave if you think having tattoos is a big handicap to getting on in the world you out to think of how it is for Black people.
I acted as a translator for Amnesty international in Germany in a small town there (in my spare time not officially) anyway I used to get the newspaper first thing in the morning , and phone round for flats, or apartments for these people .
I was usually asked to go along ata certain hour to view them.
When I turned up with the black skinned people with me explaining that it was they who wanted the flat the door was often shut in my face.
It really brought it home to me as I was too a foreigner there how the added bonus of having white skin paid dividends as I never encountered this before in my life.
I felt very saddened by that .
It never really struck home to me before those events what it was like to be a black person.
It was awful believe me.
So even with your tattoos you are in a supreme position. Alistair

Carl
08-08-2004, 05:05 PM
Kansas_Farmer, Until fairly recently diesel-electric locomotives used DC generators and traction motors at 600V DC. Most new locomotives are microprocessor controlled AC drive. I am not really well studied on all the latest specifications but I do know they are quite advanced tecnologically with such features as automatic traction control using dopler radar (the microprocessor uses data from the radar to compare ground speed to wheel RPM and adjusts wheel torque to minimize slippage).

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 05:10 PM
Alistair:

I am part cherokee indian. Growed up very confused. Seems in some crowds if you are not blue eyed and fair you are not welcome.
Seen predujice from both sides. Later in my life I got to thinking I really didn't care what anyone thought.

Turbine? what is the losses/slippage?

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 07:40 PM
Evan,

I arrived at that number simply because I've seen nothing else. My experience with steam is limited to our antique engines with loco boilers, and 1 steam turbine. I do understand how they work and why they do what they do, however, I've not seen anything steam powered thats less than 80 years old.

Those old engines wouldn't ever take anything past 400 rpm without puking up expensive part numbers. I've seen a SS once at our show, but the gentelman that owned it didn't fire it up. I also think a modern engine probably would do more especially with a balanced valve or an engine of the uniflow design. The other problem with high RPM in steam engines is this. Power is determined mainly through steam pressure. The stuff the cylinder is made of will determine how much pressure they can stand. To get something to stand enough pressure to make alot of power, it has to be huge too. All this mass flying around can't go very fast.

Kansas_Farmer
08-08-2004, 07:48 PM
IBEW

I hear ya, I get the same thing. German heritage, but since I grew up in Kansas, I'm a dumb idiot that in no way could ever understand anything more than what comes out of the south end of a northbound horse.

Steam turbines are good and cool, but require dry steam, unless you like replacing T wheels all the time. The fine water dropplets in saturated steam (steam that is taken and used right off the water it boiled from) will act like sand paper on T wheels and ruin them. We'd have to add a superheater to your boiler to stop that problem. (Just remembered that little issue)

I dont' know a whole lot more about em other than that.

Carl- Thanks for the info!

ibewgypsie
08-08-2004, 10:09 PM
Carl: Kansas..

The peaker power plants GE has put all over the south. Well.. they have a flame that has a blower on them, then they spray water into the flame to make steam expansion and really push on the turbine. The wheel is about 16 feet in diameter if I remember.. I calibrated the instruments all over the thing and repaired the damage done by the electricians... The whole shebang is ran by a rack style plc..

Steam in a sense, thou no boiler..

Find us a investor, I'll divulge via fax or email my plans and logic and let you run with it, just keep me in the loop.

I am 50% German, 50% scottish and 50% cherokee indian, 47, a lil overweight 280lbs, stocky, 3 bad discs in my back. and I just unloaded off the truck a 350 pound item.. I am feeling pretty old.. Taking some medicinal Wild turkey... NOT THE Lifting or the carrying, just the setting down that hurts..

I keep saying I am putting a lift on my truck... It is a shop truck.. not a show truck..

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 08-08-2004).]