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JoeLee
08-18-2017, 01:18 PM
The other day someone gave me an almost like new heavy commercial extension cord, you know those yellow ones with the clear ends and the female end has a neon light in it. Well the ground pin is broken off on the plug side, either it broke or someone ripped it out. Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to repair one.
I know I could cut the end off and put a plug on it but I wanted to try and save the original end.
My thought was to turn a bras pin to proper length and drill out one end just enough so it can be press fitted over what is left of the broken pin in the connector.
I could go over the existing or possible inside it. If I go over the existing pin I was thinking of putting a small piece of solder in the drilled part so after I pressed it on a quick flash with the propane torch may get the solder to flow between the two pieces.

JL........................

johansen
08-18-2017, 01:23 PM
not worth the liability. get a new plug.

flylo
08-18-2017, 01:29 PM
Replace the end only & have a very cheap cord.

J Tiers
08-18-2017, 01:41 PM
Fix it right with a new plug.

RichR
08-18-2017, 01:50 PM
A molded plug is not meant to be serviced, period, end of sentence. Put a new plug on it and enjoy your new extension cord.

epicfail48
08-18-2017, 04:10 PM
New plug. That pins there to save your life, do you really want to take a chance with it?

Paul Alciatore
08-18-2017, 06:07 PM
Sorry, new plug is the only way.

I really don't see the need for it, but I believe you can buy the ones that light up when power is present. I am sure they cost more, probably a lot more.

Here you go:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#power-plugs/=18zz6ba

flylo
08-18-2017, 08:47 PM
The female end lights up so I don't see a need to pay more the the male end that goes into a recept that lights up too.

JoeLee
08-18-2017, 09:32 PM
Only the female end has the neon light in it. Just thought I would ask. Sometimes some of you guys are pretty crafty.

I have a new plug I can put on it.

JL.............................

Mike Burdick
08-18-2017, 09:53 PM
If you like that feature then buy a cord cap that's lighted...

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515CV-LIT-Grounding-Lighted-Replacement/dp/B00LGQXP86

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/612J-oN0QzL._AC_UL115_.jpghttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CQc-bvQHL._AC_UL115_.jpg

wombat2go
08-19-2017, 08:57 AM
Here is an OSHA page about repairing cords, (letter)
https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=27353
with links to the articles.
This is for construction workers, where daily continuity checks of extension cords are required and they are allowed to be repaired.
It does not stipulate what "repair" means.

I suspect there are other regs somewhere precluding, for example re-joining a broken wire or conductor.

In Australia with 240 V residential service, extension cords were a/the major cause of electrical accidents.

krutch
08-19-2017, 09:02 AM
It always pisses me off when some dork destroys the ground on cords. If they want a Darwin Award, OK go get one but, don't cause me to compete for one. There is a reason the adapter is made other than to get money from people. Short cuts usually are not short, just cuts in safety or progress!

kendall
08-19-2017, 09:29 AM
Here is an OSHA page about repairing cords, (letter)
https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=27353
with links to the articles.
This is for construction workers, where daily continuity checks of extension cords are required and they are allowed to be repaired.
It does not stipulate what "repair" means.

I suspect there are other regs somewhere precluding, for example re-joining a broken wire or conductor.

In Australia with 240 V residential service, extension cords were a/the major cause of electrical accidents.

Back when I first started in construction something that always got me about OSHA regs was that I could tear a power tool down, install new brushes, internal wiring, an all new power cord etc, but simply replacing the plug on the end of the cord required a certified electrician.

Tony Ennis
08-19-2017, 09:30 AM
I think it was more common to see mutilated plugs back in the day, when few outlets were grounded much less three-prong. I remember my dad had cut the grounding pin from his electric drill. Now the situation is reversed and you have to go to a very old house to find a two-prong outlet. I have not seen a mutilated cord in decades.

Yeah, replace the end or replace the cord. Don't try to fix it.

wombat2go
08-19-2017, 09:45 AM
(By the way) For those needing NFPA 70 ( NEC) free access to latest edition, , it is available after creating a user account with NFPA
https://www.nfpa.org/Login

I was surprised to read that NEC 400.13 does allow splicing of certain heavy duty extension cords at 400.13.
The splice has to be to 100.14

J Tiers
08-19-2017, 11:47 AM
....... Now the situation is reversed and you have to go to a very old house to find a two-prong outlet. I have not seen a mutilated cord in decades.
.....

Really? IIRC, they came in as a requirement in the late 60's or the 70's. not that old. Most houses around here have 2 prong in most of the building, because they were built prior to the 3 prong outlet.

Paul Alciatore
08-19-2017, 12:54 PM
It's been a long time since I had to deal with a two prong outlet, but it happened a couple of weeks ago when I was adding some heat lamps to my paint spray area. I think I posted about that at the time. In my lawn building I found an old, two prong outlet. I know I have some and looked for an adapter but couldn't find one. I had to actually make a cord with a two prong plug: I had some chopped off ends of cords that I had shortened and I always try to keep plugs and sockets on hand so it was no problem.

I plan to install a three prong outlet in that lawn building when I get a-round-tu-it. I have one of those around somewhere: it was given to me by some fellow workers. Just have to find it.

But I can understand how someone who is faced with that problem, perhaps on the job, and has to make it work NOW. In days past I have clipped a few ground prongs off myself. There are times and places where the cost of a cord, even a good one, is a very minor consideration. Been there! Done that! I may even have a tee shirt or two from some of those occasions.




It always pisses me off when some dork destroys the ground on cords. If they want a Darwin Award, OK go get one but, don't cause me to compete for one. There is a reason the adapter is made other than to get money from people. Short cuts usually are not short, just cuts in safety or progress!

RichR
08-19-2017, 03:22 PM
I've never cut off a ground pin, but I have on occasion modified the width of the neutral blade of a polarized plug to make it non polarized on
a wall wart. You know, those little transformers shaped like a black cube with two prongs sticking out.

J Tiers
08-19-2017, 04:31 PM
...
I plan to install a three prong outlet in that lawn building when I get a-round-tu-it. I have one of those around somewhere: it was given to me by some fellow workers. Just have to find it.

....

Especially for a lawn building, but also in general....

When faced with a 2 prong outlet, and no reasonable way to earth the thing, it is perfectly acceptable to replace it with a GFCI in most situations.

It is NOT acceptable to just replace it with a 3 prong outlet, unless you can earth the 3rd prong to the building existing ground system. Pounding in a ground rod is no good. Even a separate grund back to a cold water pipe, etc may not actually be good enough.

PStechPaul
08-19-2017, 06:47 PM
Somewhere I have an extension cord with a built-in GFCI. Here is one from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-2-ft-In-Line-GFCI-Cord-30338213/203741466

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/59/5922f896-c7a6-446e-a76d-e4a676ff2346_1000.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/gfci-extension-cord/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Agfci%20extension%20cord

6PTsocket
08-22-2017, 09:34 AM
You ain't seen nothin' when it comes to lack of safety. We were on vacation in Mexico and some guys were working by the hotel pool. They were using 2 wire spt( zip, lamp) cord wire for a drill extension cord and spliced two lengths together by wrapping the bare ends around a couple of nails in a board, (by the wet swimming pool)

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browne92
08-22-2017, 10:50 AM
Not sure if it was to code or not, but in the hospital when I replaced a plug, I left the ground wire about an inch long than the hot and neutral and coiled it up inside the plug. That way when they called a code blue and the nurse grabbed the crash cart without unplugging the LifePak, the ground wire was the last to disconnect if she managed to jerk the cord out of the plug.

vpt
08-23-2017, 09:09 AM
I think it was more common to see mutilated plugs back in the day, when few outlets were grounded much less three-prong. I remember my dad had cut the grounding pin from his electric drill. Now the situation is reversed and you have to go to a very old house to find a two-prong outlet. I have not seen a mutilated cord in decades.

Yeah, replace the end or replace the cord. Don't try to fix it.


This was the problem around here. My grandfather cut the ground leg off every extension cord around here because of the older two hole outlets.

vpt
08-23-2017, 09:13 AM
You ain't seen nothin' when it comes to lack of safety. We were on vacation in Mexico and some guys were working by the hotel pool. They were using 2 wire spt( zip, lamp) cord wire for a drill extension cord and spliced two lengths together by wrapping the bare ends around a couple of nails in a board, (by the wet swimming pool)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I stand in the water in our ponds with cords submerged all the time. Even in our tanks agitators will fall into the water and be totally submerged and I have never even once felt a tingle. Maybe in a small amount of water like in a bath tub it is more of a hazard but with a bigger body of water (tank, pool, pond, lake) I feel there is no danger.

6PTsocket
08-23-2017, 11:32 AM
I stand in the water in our ponds with cords submerged all the time. Even in our tanks agitators will fall into the water and be totally submerged and I have never even once felt a tingle. Maybe in a small amount of water like in a bath tub it is more of a hazard but with a bigger body of water (tank, pool, pond, lake) I feel there is no danger.Please have your wife notify us about the final arrangements.

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Mcgyver
08-23-2017, 12:21 PM
Really? IIRC, they came in as a requirement in the late 60's or the 70's. not that old. Most houses around here have 2 prong in most of the building, because they were built prior to the 3 prong outlet.

that, and I've seen lots of three pronged outlets where the ground is not connected to anything - nothing to connect to. If one is replacing a receptacle in a house where there only are two wires, and all the hardware stores sells is three pronged receptacles....that's what is going in. Done it myself. Besides there are lots of things you buy that don't have a ground wire. Amazing that we and earlier generations made it this far.

The only person I can recall dying from electrocution was marina employee near my parents cottage. He was operating an electric drill in a aluminum boat. Not sure what happened but doubt anything short of a GFI would have helped. Personal policy is to take steps to not be a perfect ground (rubber shoes, don't use if wet) or use a rechargeable....doing so, I don't worry about not having a ground in doors.

Hal
08-23-2017, 12:29 PM
VPT

Have you ever watched the Fish and Game shock fish ?????? or hear of cattle or horses found dead by the stock tank ? Sometimes live stock won't drink from a stock tank because they get a light shock because of faulty wiring.

Tell you wife if she wants early retirement she should take out some life insurance on you.

WORK SMART you don't want to win the Darwin award. Think of your family. There are some mistakes you don't get a chance to learn from.
Good Luck

Hal

Bob La Londe
08-23-2017, 12:29 PM
If you like that feature then buy a cord cap that's lighted...

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515CV-LIT-Grounding-Lighted-Replacement/dp/B00LGQXP86

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/612J-oN0QzL._AC_UL115_.jpghttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CQc-bvQHL._AC_UL115_.jpg


I like that. A little pricey though.

BCRider
08-23-2017, 01:02 PM
I stand in the water in our ponds with cords submerged all the time. Even in our tanks agitators will fall into the water and be totally submerged and I have never even once felt a tingle. Maybe in a small amount of water like in a bath tub it is more of a hazard but with a bigger body of water (tank, pool, pond, lake) I feel there is no danger.

It all depends on if you become part or all of the path of conduction. For example if the plug of a tool and extension cord should fall into the water and the water is strongly connected to ground you might not feel a tingle. But the moment you lift the connected plugs out of the water from fairly close to the plugs you would likely see your eyes start to dance because now you become part of the path to ground.

Or if the connected plugs fell into the water of a pond and you're a few feet away you may not feel anything. But as you move closer you may start to feel some tingling if you're not in insulating hip waders.

So all in all "it depends". But I would not take your safety for granted when water and power are mixing together.

dockterj
08-23-2017, 01:58 PM
Fresh water and electricity is scary stuff

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2013/july/electric-shock-drowning-explained.asp

J Tiers
08-23-2017, 02:00 PM
If "the plug" is in the water, the primary conduction path is from hot to neutral right at the plug. Or to ground pin, assuming there is one. Or both. That tends to cut the current that flows at a distance, which is cut anyway, because the current tends to spread out through the water, so there is less current per square metre.

No, I would not call the result "safe".

What it is actually should be called "somewhat less hazardous".

Translated, that means "you can often get away with it". Until, one day, for some reason you do not foresee, you do NOT "get away with it".

Perhaps the best connection to earth is right near where you are, or the water is somewhat salty, or more conductive for some other reason, something like that which you are not aware of, and instead of it being no issue, you get zapped.

6PTsocket
08-23-2017, 10:29 PM
that, and I've seen lots of three pronged outlets where the ground is not connected to anything - nothing to connect to. If one is replacing a receptacle in a house where there only are two wires, and all the hardware stores sells is three pronged receptacles....that's what is going in. Done it myself. Besides there are lots of things you buy that don't have a ground wire. Amazing that we and earlier generations made it this far.

The only person I can recall dying from electrocution was marina employee near my parents cottage. He was operating an electric drill in a aluminum boat. Not sure what happened but doubt anything short of a GFI would have helped. Personal policy is to take steps to not be a perfect ground (rubber shoes, don't use if wet) or use a rechargeable....doing so, I don't worry about not having a ground in doors.3 prong outlets have the ground attached to the mounting bracket, in addition to the screw. If it is a metal box the ground wire of the non metalic (Romex)or the shell of the BX should be attached to the box. There does not have to be a ground wire to the receptacle to make the ground connection. If it is a plastic box, that is another story.

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Mcgyver
08-24-2017, 08:42 AM
3 prong outlets have the ground attached to the mounting bracket, in addition to the screw. If it is a metal box the ground wire of the non metalic (Romex)or the shell of the BX should be attached to the box. There does not have to be a ground wire to the receptacle to make the ground connection. If it is a plastic box, that is another story.



sure....and what good does that do? nothing afaik (assuming typical house wiring, romex not bx). you've tied ground to a box nailed to a wood stud, and it goes no where from there.

J Tiers
08-24-2017, 09:06 AM
sure....and what good does that do? nothing afaik (assuming typical house wiring, romex not bx). you've tied ground to a box nailed to a wood stud, and it goes no where from there.

Correct, does nothing. It's actually a violation of law to put in a 3 prong outlet UNLESS the circuit has a GFCI. A GFCI can replace any 2 prong. But 2 prong are available for sale for replacement.

RichR
08-24-2017, 10:18 AM
There does not have to be a ground wire to the receptacle to make the ground connection.

Does the NEC allow you to rely on the screw that fastens the outlet to the box to make the ground connection? While I've seen the little brass strip
they rivet on next to the mounting screw I still feel compelled to wire in the outlets ground terminal.

6PTsocket
08-24-2017, 10:32 AM
Does the NEC allow you to rely on the screw that fastens the outlet to the box to make the ground connection? While I've seen the little brass strip
they rivet on next to the mounting screw I still feel compelled to wire in the outlets ground terminal.As I understand it, it is legal but I have never trusted it either. The mounting screws are often left loose to allow the receptacle to be pulled flush to the cover plate. On hospital grade receptacles the mounting bracket is not tied to the socket ground pin. I always run a ground wire, just to be safe.

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3 Phase Lightbulb
08-24-2017, 11:24 AM
Fresh water and electricity is scary stuff

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2013/july/electric-shock-drowning-explained.asp

Yes, this was very, very sad and resonated through the boating community.

This is also why I always swim inside a Faraday cage, or at least a full body Faraday shield that weighs less than 300lbs

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71XlweOWvvL._SY355_.jpg

J Tiers
08-24-2017, 12:37 PM
The shock drowning article has it's points....

The fresh water deal? Yes, and no. There has to be a voltage in the water, which they correctly mention as volts per unit distance.

The OTHER requirement is that the TOTAL resistance in series (the water) has to be reasonably low, so that there is enough current to cause a problem. The voltage can exist without allowing current.

Example: If you walk under a high voltage line, say 100,000 volts, that is 100 feet above you, you are walking through an electric field of nominally 1000V per foot. If you are 6 feet tall, that is 6000 volts.... enough to fry you. But you DO NOT get fried, because the air cannot conduct enough current to let you even notice. (capacitive effects are different). A bird can land right on the line, and is not zapped, again because of total resistance (ignoring any "corona" effects)

Same with the fresh water... it's a bad enough conductor that if you are reasonably far from the source of current, you will not even be aware of a problem. If you are 30 yards away, you are nearly certain to have no effect. If you then swim over toward the dock, you might swim into serious trouble as you approach it. Or when you get there and put a hand on a grounded ladder, you might get zapped, as mentioned above, even when you are not in the primary current path.

No, the bad current level is not much, but if you look at the chart they show, it takes a significant amount to be a serious problem that you cannot swim out of. (if you know where to go... toward the dock is probably very much the wrong direction). The 1 mA level is a quite significant amount of current, really. With a good bit of water between you and the source, you might have as little as a few microamps total, due to the total resistance, you plus X amount of low conductivity water. That's how VPT is not dead (yet).

The most likely time to get zapped is if you are touching a grounded object, or are touching the energized object. Then there is all your surface area to conduct current, and a good contact to take it away or supply it. Next worst is being in between the source and the return, such as between the source and shore, or bottom. Or, I suppose, if you get between the source and an area of higher conductivity water, which provides a better connection right in the water, so you need not be touching anything. Then your conductivity may make a difference.

If you are at a distance, there is likely no issue, since low conductivity water will not allow any significant voltage potential, and all the water between you and the source will also not allow enough current through you. Plus, the current spreads out through the water, so you are not in the path of much of whatever it allows.

Obviously high conductivity water will short out the current, and there will be little electric field.




Does the NEC allow you to rely on the screw that fastens the outlet to the box to make the ground connection? While I've seen the little brass strip
they rivet on next to the mounting screw I still feel compelled to wire in the outlets ground terminal.

Only if it has an approved clip such as the one you describe appears to be, and are tightened down. AND even then, not on surface boxes with raised tops (for those, everything needs a pigtail). The ones that the cover screws to flat are OK, as are plaster rings if they have flat metal to metal joints under the screwhead, IIRC.

PStechPaul
08-25-2017, 12:08 AM
I have observed that birds will perch on the ground wires above a transmission line, but not on the phase conductors. They won't get an actual shock from the energized lines, but I think the electric field intensity is much higher at the surface of the wires than it is at ground level. I found some literature that shows measurement of about 12 kV/m at ground level below 400 kV transmission lines that are about 12 m above ground. AIUI, if the field were uniform it would be 400/12 = 33 kV/m. However, if the lines are 400 kV phase-to-phase, they would be 230 kV to ground which would be 19 kV/m. The field strength depends on the conductivity of the material between the lines and ground, so a human is a relatively good conductor and the field strength through the body will be rather low, perhaps 10 V/m or 20 V from head to feet of a 2 m human. The field between the head and the line would then increase to perhaps 12 * 12/10 = 14.4 V/m.

http://www.eskom.co.za/OurCompany/SustainableDevelopment/EnvironmentalImpactAssessments/Documents/Anderson_Substation_Appendix_C_-_Electric_and_Magnetic_Fields_from_Overhead_Power_ Lines1.pdf

http://transoneleng.org/2016/20164b.pdf

J Tiers
08-25-2017, 01:10 AM
Yes, people "short out" the field pretty well in cases where the field is in low conductivity material (air, clean fresh water, etc). But in many cases, the total resistance is too large, even with part of the distance "shorted", to produce any significant current through the body.

Birds do not like the higher voltage lines for several reasons.... one is that it may ruffle their feathers, similar to the pics you see of folks with their hair standing out due to the charge from a van de Graaf generator. Another is that they form a "point", a spot of more concentrated field, and there can be a corona discharge from them. Both could be rather uncomfortable for the bird, even if not actually dangerous.

That would particularly be wires of the type that have two or 4 wires with spacers between, and long insulator strings. Those are the higher voltage ones, the wire arrangement is to cut corona losses.

I commonly see birds sit on the lower voltage wires. perhaps 4 kV to 50 kV anyway, possibly higher. It's not easy to deduce the voltage from the number of insulators, different power companies have different standards, and use different insulators.

6PTsocket
08-25-2017, 05:48 PM
The shock drowning article has it's points....

The fresh water deal? Yes, and no. There has to be a voltage in the water, which they correctly mention as volts per unit distance.

The OTHER requirement is that the TOTAL resistance in series (the water) has to be reasonably low, so that there is enough current to cause a problem. The voltage can exist without allowing current.

Example: If you walk under a high voltage line, say 100,000 volts, that is 100 feet above you, you are walking through an electric field of nominally 1000V per foot. If you are 6 feet tall, that is 6000 volts.... enough to fry you. But you DO NOT get fried, because the air cannot conduct enough current to let you even notice. (capacitive effects are different). A bird can land right on the line, and is not zapped, again because of total resistance (ignoring any "corona" effects)

Same with the fresh water... it's a bad enough conductor that if you are reasonably far from the source of current, you will not even be aware of a problem. If you are 30 yards away, you are nearly certain to have no effect. If you then swim over toward the dock, you might swim into serious trouble as you approach it. Or when you get there and put a hand on a grounded ladder, you might get zapped, as mentioned above, even when you are not in the primary current path.

No, the bad current level is not much, but if you look at the chart they show, it takes a significant amount to be a serious problem that you cannot swim out of. (if you know where to go... toward the dock is probably very much the wrong direction). The 1 mA level is a quite significant amount of current, really. With a good bit of water between you and the source, you might have as little as a few microamps total, due to the total resistance, you plus X amount of low conductivity water. That's how VPT is not dead (yet).

The most likely time to get zapped is if you are touching a grounded object, or are touching the energized object. Then there is all your surface area to conduct current, and a good contact to take it away or supply it. Next worst is being in between the source and the return, such as between the source and shore, or bottom. Or, I suppose, if you get between the source and an area of higher conductivity water, which provides a better connection right in the water, so you need not be touching anything. Then your conductivity may make a difference.

If you are at a distance, there is likely no issue, since low conductivity water will not allow any significant voltage potential, and all the water between you and the source will also not allow enough current through you. Plus, the current spreads out through the water, so you are not in the path of much of whatever it allows.

Obviously high conductivity water will short out the current, and there will be little electric field.





Only if it has an approved clip such as the one you describe appears to be, and are tightened down. AND even then, not on surface boxes with raised tops (for those, everything needs a pigtail). The ones that the cover screws to flat are OK, as are plaster rings if they have flat metal to metal joints under the screwhead, IIRC.The bird us not affected because he is not grounded. If you hung from a high tension line, way up in the air, you would not get zapped either. People have had high tension lines fall on their car and were not grounded because of the rubber tires. It is when they stepped out that they were in trouble.

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mickeyf
08-25-2017, 06:52 PM
It's not easy to deduce the voltage from the number of insulators

And yet, to some extent, we can deduce the voltage from the number of birds! (Seriously!) I once raised my eyebrows at someone suggesting testing a small engine for compression with their thumb on the spark plug hole. I thought they must have an awfully sensitive thumb. Of course, what they really meant was "perceptible compression" vs "no compression whatsoever"...

Arcane
08-25-2017, 07:25 PM
The bird us not affected because he is not grounded. If you hung from a high tension line, way up in the air, you would not get zapped either. People have had high tension lines fall on their car and were not grounded because of the rubber tires. It is when they stepped out that they were in trouble.

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Birds do not alight on higher voltage lines because it's uncomfortable for them when their bodies come up to the same potential as the wire. It has absolutely nothing to do with being grounded or not.

I used to get a headache when I walked around in our 230 Kv switching stations but not in the 138 Kv ones.