PDA

View Full Version : OT: Who came up with the term MAKER.



loose nut
12-15-2017, 11:15 AM
Warning: This is a rant so feel free to hit the go back button.

When did the term MAKER come into popular use. You are seen to be someone who can fabricate something IE: a machinist, welder, woodworker, general metal basher etc. (professional or amateur) and now you are a MAKER.

Why.

Is it just people who don't know anything coming up with a term to explain what they don't know or understand or what. Too many people today can't comprehend the fact that you don't have to go to a store and buy stuff and that you can just build it (better) yourself. As a welder by trade for over 30 years and a amateur machinist for longer I hate it, when showing off something I built and somebody says "Oh, your a maker". I build models by machining, soldering, beating metal, whatever. I am a Model Engineer and proud of it, a term that has been around for over 130 years and now I'm suppose to be a MAKER. It is an insult of the first order.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that people are getting out and building thing again, no matter what it is. People who don't work with their hand are missing out in life so it is good that maybe there is a movement to reverse the tread of sitting on our arses and watching the tube in every spare moment but the term MAKER.......................................


I think we should research who came up with it, patient zero if you will and kill the bastard.

OK, the rant is over.

QSIMDO
12-15-2017, 11:35 AM
There are many things in life that just need to be ignored.

A.K. Boomer
12-15-2017, 11:39 AM
first time iv really heard of the term being used like that...

softtail
12-15-2017, 11:41 AM
Kill all these folks... you may get the right person...

https://curiositycommons.wordpress.com/a-brief-history-of-makerspaces/

Dan Dubeau
12-15-2017, 11:42 AM
I share your dislike of the term "maker"

I'm pretty sure it has come about from the millennial generation raised by parents and grandparents who have bought everything ever needed. They're a generation or two removed from making and fixing things and therefore think they invented "making things". They have discovered all on their own (Via the internet) that your can actually make things instead of buy them, and pretty much ignore centuries of previous history and well documented trades. Growing up entirely in a time with internet they don't believe anything happened if it doesn't have a you tube video covering it from all different camera angles. They also need to put a label and category on everything, thus the "maker", or "hacker" moniker.

IMO it's both a good thing and a bad thing. It will bring more desperately needed people into the trades, and will fuel manufacturing with new idea's, enthusiasm and fresh perspectives. On the other hand, I've found it difficult to teach things that I know and have learned over the years, without referencing a video to explain it. Ie, show somebody how to machine something, and they come in the next day with a video from CNC zone (no offense to CNC zone....) and a guy with a harbour freight stepper mill saying I'm doing it wrong. Riiiight....That's a tough and frustrating hurdle to jump.....

loose nut
12-15-2017, 11:54 AM
Kill all these folks... you may get the right person...

https://curiositycommons.wordpress.com/a-brief-history-of-makerspaces/

Good start but what then?

J Tiers
12-15-2017, 12:09 PM
The "maker" thing is just because actually making (or fixing) things is new and foreign to the millennials, and they needed a name for it. That one is catchy, and so it is what stuck.

AD5MB
12-15-2017, 12:09 PM
Maker comes from users of a device known as an Arduino. A microcontroller, a percentage of a computer.

A very small percentage of the current generation of young people have ever made anything. Arduinos and their offshoots and variants have revived interest in DIY amog the young.

Magicniner
12-15-2017, 12:30 PM
The "maker" thing is just because actually making (or fixing) things is new and foreign to the millennials, and they needed a name for it. That one is catchy, and so it is what stuck.

+1

It's a new label which a new generation require for something which should be normal, a large part of which our grand parents used to call "Make Do And Mend".

RB211
12-15-2017, 12:43 PM
+1

It's a new label which a new generation require for something which should be normal, a large part of which our grand parents used to call "Make Do And Mend".

If you can change a tire on the side of a road, you are very special in the millennial world. Just wait until they are holding spots in office, if you think the snowflake movement is bad right now!!!!!

David Powell
12-15-2017, 12:44 PM
+1

It's a new label which a new generation require for something which should be normal, a large part of which our grand parents used to call "Make Do And Mend".

Changing topic slightly. I become angry when I ( so often) hear the adjective " Amazing" totally misused. I would be " amazed" if a pop singer grew another head while singing, I certainly am not " amazed" when they sing well or badly. Regards David Powell.

lynnl
12-15-2017, 12:45 PM
It isn't just this one word. It seems to be the nature of modern humanoids to want to be constantly applying a new label to things. Where I first noticed it was several years ago in woodworking magazines. Someone decided to replace the term "planer" (i.e. wood planer) with the word "thicknesser." Thereafter every time I turned around I was encountering that damn word "thicknesser." I think it's some sort of ego trip to be the one to coin a new term.
Even so, it wouldn't be a thicknesser, it'd be a thinnerrerrrr..

Another example is the word fan; the word hasn't disappeared of course, but years ago I started seeing them labeled "Air Circulator"s ...what the hell is wrong with "fan?" Everybody knows the word fan, and it's shorter by several letters.

I especially notice the folks in my own former profession (meteorology) always coming up with new terms, for the same weather phenomena that's been around since the earth cooled.

The appeal really seems too great to resist if a foreign word can be found, ...must inflate the users sense of sophistication, I guess.
I'm with you, loose nut! Somebody needs to do something about all this horse hockey!

Dan Dubeau
12-15-2017, 12:46 PM
If you can change a tire on the side of a road, you are very special in the millennial world. Just wait until they are holding spots in office, if you think the snowflake movement is bad right now!!!!!

I should have my fully paid for cabin in the woods by then. Prepaid taxes for years in advance. Do call me I'll call you......

enginuity
12-15-2017, 12:51 PM
Personally I don't find the name offensive or annoying.

Do you find craftsman annoying?

Maker generally implies the idea of hacking something together. Maker generally doesn't convey craftsmanship, rather a more general approach.

I'm a huge fan of the maker movement. For years kids and even adults were told working with your hands was not important, for stupid people etc etc. Now we finally have a somewhat charismatic movement that is engaging all ages to get their hands dirty and learn the joy of working with your hands.

The maker movement is engaging young people also to get into hobby machining. I see it all the time. First someone starts making stuff with a mitre saw and screws. Fast forward a bit and the light bulb turns on and they start looking for proper metal working equipment. 10 or so years ago the only people I talked to in machining were the older generation. Now there is a revival of sorts.

Without the charismatic "maker movement" the entire hobby would be a lot worse off. That is unless you enjoy the idea of your machines going off to the scrap yard when you are done with them.

The term maker isn't offensive, derogatory, or even imply something you are not. A lot worse things to complain about.

CCWKen
12-15-2017, 01:02 PM
The term dates from, at least, the 14th century so it has nothing to do with Arduinos, computers or the like. It used to be a term of endearment or praise for those that could fashion useful items from raw materials. Only you guys have lowered it's value to a status of subordination. I'm proud to be a maker and a doer. :)

Baz
12-15-2017, 01:49 PM
Lots of words change their meanings and use over time. The real question is whether the word is being used with derision or admiration.
I've got used to 'Curator' being adopted by disc jockeys which in turn I think was a derisory term applied to them by band leaders and singers. Recently at work the marketing types are calling the appearance of things 'the optics' which I find irritating.

DICKEYBIRD
12-15-2017, 02:19 PM
I like the word that my 5 yr. old grandson describes me with when he's talking to his friends. He proudly says "My Pappaw is a mender...he can fix anything!":cool:

GNM109
12-15-2017, 03:35 PM
I don't think that the term "Maker" is particularly offensive or meant to demean anyone. The combination that you need to avoid is "matchmaker". It's hard enough to find the right mate but having someone else do it is asking for trouble.

engineerd3d
12-15-2017, 04:12 PM
Personally I don't find the name offensive or annoying.

Do you find craftsman annoying?

Maker generally implies the idea of hacking something together. Maker generally doesn't convey craftsmanship, rather a more general approach.

I'm a huge fan of the maker movement. For years kids and even adults were told working with your hands was not important, for stupid people etc etc. Now we finally have a somewhat charismatic movement that is engaging all ages to get their hands dirty and learn the joy of working with your hands.

The maker movement is engaging young people also to get into hobby machining. I see it all the time. First someone starts making stuff with a mitre saw and screws. Fast forward a bit and the light bulb turns on and they start looking for proper metal working equipment. 10 or so years ago the only people I talked to in machining were the older generation. Now there is a revival of sorts.

Without the charismatic "maker movement" the entire hobby would be a lot worse off. That is unless you enjoy the idea of your machines going off to the scrap yard when you are done with them.

The term maker isn't offensive, derogatory, or even imply something you are not. A lot worse things to complain about.


Wanted to write this 100% agree with this. Also blaming everything on millennials is the same as blaming the lid for whats in the pot...

QSIMDO
12-15-2017, 04:25 PM
I'll bet you've all been called much worse and recently too!

Rich Carlstedt
12-15-2017, 04:41 PM
WHO CAME UP WITH THE TERM MAKER?............................................ ................


The same guy who coined the word "Billet"



Rich

softtail
12-15-2017, 05:53 PM
The same guy who coined the word "Billet"



Rich

Artisanal, tactical, bespoke, etc etc

garyhlucas
12-15-2017, 06:12 PM
If you think Maker is bad you haven't been looking for stuff in McMaster Carr lately! All of a sudden Coupling is no longer a plumbing fitting, it is now a Connector, and the picture they are using is an adapter. I am waiting for Unistrut to be called Long thingy with a slot.

I have been called an inventor almost my whole life. That used to bother me as the word used to always be used along the word crazy. I have invented so much stuff and have the patents to prove it that it no longer bothers me, and better than Maker for for sure.

Magicniner
12-15-2017, 06:58 PM
blaming everything on millennials

No one's blaming Millennials for anything, most of them aren't responsible for much at all :D

bob_s
12-15-2017, 06:59 PM
I believe it was a guy by the name of Adam.
As the story goes he sacrificed a rib so that later generations of men would have women as companions.

'deleted rant'

Bmyers
12-15-2017, 07:09 PM
No one's blaming Millennials for anything, most of them aren't responsible for much at all :D

I know and work with a lot of millennials. They are responsible for complicated projects, mortgages, bills, deadlines. I for one am tired of millennial bashing and I'm old and grumpy.

tlfamm
12-15-2017, 07:15 PM
The same guy who coined the word "Billet"



Rich

That would be a population of 17th century Frenchmen who used the term 'billet' (pronounced 'beeyay') to refer to a block of wood.

coalsmok
12-15-2017, 07:36 PM
I do not see it as an insult. For many on here maker would be better description than one of the trade names like welder, machinist, engineer etc. To me the term maker means you have done most or all of the things involved in making the thing you are showing someone.
Think about it, Brian for example has designed and built multiple model engines and mechanisms for them. In a normal factory/production setting one or several engineers and designers make the drawings. These are then sent out to various specialties in the trades. A casting shop will do their part, a weld shop theirs, a machine shop theirs and so on until a assembled ready for market item is used. In a home shop setting the engineer, designer, welder, foundry worker, machinist and finisher are often one and the same.

Bob La Londe
12-15-2017, 07:37 PM
Its right up there with Jack of All Trades (Bastard of None).

Seriously. I'm not a machinist or a wood worker or a welder or a blacksmith in the classic old school nose in the air if you didn't serve 30 years as an apprentice sense of the terms, but I can do some of all of those things. Certain parts of them very well. I was a licensed communications contractor for 23 years (still licensed), but I never considered myself an electronics tech although I often fixed problems faster than "real" electronics technicians. I'm not a mechanic, but I've done a major overhaul on half a dozen engines and decent amounts of work on others. I'm not a refrigeration tech, but my dad and I service all our own refrigeration systems in our grocery store when I was growing up, and I took and completed a mail order refrigeration course that came in a bazillion little lessons and practice tests. The real test is to know to look in the sight glass and have a feel for what you see. To look at the what you see and feel and determine what to check first. I'm not a framer, but I've framed a couple buildings and helped frame a couple more. I was the one who pulled the permit on a couple of them. I'm not an electrician, but between being a communications contractor, learning refrigeration, and being smart enough to open a book I can wire a house or a work shop or hook up a motor. I am not afraid to tear a CNC milling machine apart, and put it back together with a brand new control system, but I'm not a machine builder. Even though I've built a couple machines. I'm not a farmer either but I've grown a lot of produce over the years.

Other then "pretentious know it all asshole" what term applies to encompass me? Even fabricator (which doesn't seem to be looked down on like "maker") does not really encompass the breadth of what I can do. I actually don't care for the term maker. It feels cheap and dismissive, but it might be the best term to describe the current generation of "makers and builders." They aren't forced to be just one thing. They are not limited to being spoon fed knowledge one dribble at a time under the tutelage of a "master" of a trade over the course of years. Freedom of information has broken that bond and somebody who has the drive is free to learn many things and make their own self determination what level of mastery they want or need to accomplish in a field to achieve their goals. I learned this before there was a public Internet. I bought courses, visited the library, bought books, and I did things. The knowledge was there, but now its there at your finger tips.

Oddly enough I do have some formal education in Computer Information Systems and Business Administration, but what I DO is all driven knowledge. Knowledge I sought out in books, from friends and family, and now quite often on-line.

Maybe I am a first generation "Maker" and I didn't even know what I was called.

Weston Bye
12-15-2017, 08:09 PM
Its right up there with Jack of All Trades (Bastard of None).

Seriously. I'm not a machinist or a wood worker or a welder or a blacksmith in the classic old school nose in the air if you didn't serve 30 years as an apprentice sense of the terms, but I can do some of all of those things. Certain parts of them very well. I was a licensed communications contractor for 23 years (still licensed), but I never considered myself an electronics tech although I often fixed problems faster than "real" electronics technicians. I'm not a mechanic, but I've done a major overhaul on half a dozen engines and decent amounts of work on others. I'm not a refrigeration tech, but my dad and I service all our own refrigeration systems in our grocery store when I was growing up, and I took and completed a mail order refrigeration course that came in a bazillion little lessons and practice tests. The real test is to know to look in the sight glass and have a feel for what you see. To look at the what you see and feel and determine what to check first. I'm not a framer, but I've framed a couple buildings and helped frame a couple more. I was the one who pulled the permit on a couple of them. I'm not an electrician, but between being a communications contractor, learning refrigeration, and being smart enough to open a book I can wire a house or a work shop or hook up a motor. I am not afraid to tear a CNC milling machine apart, and put it back together with a brand new control system, but I'm not a machine builder. Even though I've built a couple machines. I'm not a farmer either but I've grown a lot of produce over the years.

Other then "pretentious know it all asshole" what term applies to encompass me? Even fabricator (which doesn't seem to be looked down on like "maker") does not really encompass the breadth of what I can do. I actually don't care for the term maker. It feels cheap and dismissive, but it might be the best term to describe the current generation of "makers and builders." They aren't forced to be just one thing. They are not limited to being spoon fed knowledge one dribble at a time under the tutelage of a "master" of a trade over the course of years. Freedom of information has broken that bond and somebody who has the drive is free to learn many things and make their own self determination what level of mastery they want or need to accomplish in a field to achieve their goals. I learned this before there was a public Internet. I bought courses, visited the library, bought books, and I did things. The knowledge was there, but now its there at your finger tips.

Oddly enough I do have some formal education in Computer Information Systems and Business Administration, but what I DO is all driven knowledge. Knowledge I sought out in books, from friends and family, and now quite often on-line.

Maybe I am a first generation "Maker" and I didn't even know what I was called.

"pretentious know it all asshole" That was what I thought of when I was hired by a college and christened "Subject Matter Expert" to develop curriculum for a "Mechatronist" program. The professors probably had that opinion, but the students were grateful for the few occasions when I was called upon to teach a class.

mattthegamer463
12-15-2017, 08:32 PM
"Young" person here. 27 years old.

I'd like to say that I think older generations should ask themselves before denouncing/complaining about the "kids these days" if they are doing a service with their words/actions to encourage the change they want to see (in this case, getting young people involved in our HSM and similar pursuits) or simply giving them cause to forget about you faster when you're gone?

Please consider that what you say on this forum is read by secret young people members who obviously, being on this forum, share your passions. Don't alienate the very diamonds in the rough you are complaining about.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

ZINOM
12-15-2017, 08:51 PM
I assumed it came from Make magazine and the "maker" faires they sponsor around the world.

I'd never heard the term used as it is now, prior to that.

So now you know :)

John

Jim Stewart
12-15-2017, 08:58 PM
"Young" person here. 27 years old.

I'd like to say that I think older generations should ask themselves before denouncing/complaining about the "kids these days" if they are doing a service with their words/actions to encourage the change they want to see (in this case, getting young people involved in our HSM and similar pursuits) or simply giving them cause to forget about you faster when you're gone?

Please consider that what you say on this forum is read by secret young people members who obviously, being on this forum, share your passions. Don't alienate the very diamonds in the rough you are complaining about.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Heh. Well spoken, sire!

I'm almost 50 years older than you - and yes, I'd very much like to have my kids and younger friends remember me with a smile than with a grimace.

Grumpy old men have complained about the younger generation forever. That's why nobody listens to them.

-js

J Tiers
12-15-2017, 09:05 PM
"Young" person here. 27 years old.

I'd like to say that I think older generations should ask themselves before denouncing/complaining about the "kids these days" if they are doing a service with their words/actions to encourage the change they want to see (in this case, getting young people involved in our HSM and similar pursuits) or simply giving them cause to forget about you faster when you're gone?

Please consider that what you say on this forum is read by secret young people members who obviously, being on this forum, share your passions. Don't alienate the very diamonds in the rough you are complaining about.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

And, you will probably say the same thing you complain about when you are old...... It happens.

I actually agree about labels being an issue. That works both ways.... Millennial managers politely finish the interview with the 55yo engineer, and then hire the other guy. Why? Stereotypes about older guys..... Possibly driven by stereotypes about younger guys,

BTW, the term "stereotype" is a really OLD term used in the movable type era of newspaper printing..... maybe we need a new term?????

Weston Bye
12-15-2017, 09:12 PM
I assumed it came from Make magazine and the "maker" faires they sponsor around the world.

I'd never heard the term used as it is now, prior to that.

So now you know :)

John

That

Dan Dubeau
12-15-2017, 09:12 PM
I'm not dumping on millennials (I'm 35, depending on where you draw the line, I are one...). I'm just pointing out the fact (opinion?) that it seems to me the you tube generation seems to be in a constant state of discovery of things that have been around and "invented" for years. Some of us have been "making" things for years. Many times out of necessity, but also out of curiosity and creativity. This isn't a new thing, humans have been doing it since we were humans. But it seems to me the "maker" and you tube crowd acts like they invented this new thing called "making". I could be reading this all wrong, and it's not like I'd get offended if somebody called me a "maker", just pointing out some observations from my point of view. Of course it could be just a silly catch phrase and I'm reading too much into it......

Personally I think it's great. With fresh faces come fresh ideas and new perspectives. IMO never before in human history has there been a time where knowledge and ideas were so freely shared between others. The internet, and youtube are absolutely incredible resources for anybody who wants to learn ANYTHING. Knowledge and skills previously only shared through trades, and guilds, are now freely broadcast via the internet for all in the world to see. I've always been very good at watching somebody do something and being able to pick it up pretty fast. For a person who learns like me, it's an incredible time to be alive. I wish it was like this when I was in school and college. I would have done a lot better.

OKChipmaker
12-15-2017, 09:43 PM
What about clock maker and watch maker? It seems as though I can remember these terms being used ever since Hector was a pup.

darryl
12-16-2017, 02:19 AM
In one sense it's the best descriptor given the situation. That is, when people see something you've done and ask in amazement 'did you make that'. My grandfather whom I've never met was a watchmaker. I'm a cabinet maker- perhaps I'm also a 'circuit maker', but that might be because I'm an electronic technician. For most of that I guess you'd have to call me a mender, although in my mind that means something to do with socks. Nobody knows what an electronic technician does, but if you watched him or her fix your tv you might call them a 'fixer'. Maybe all the proper terms will come back into use once the term maker is found to be too general.

What I really want to know- well it's two things- one is what if the proper term for the guy who makes billets, and the other is why do the schools not flunk every second student for not learning proper grammar? For me personally, I can handle being called a maker, but it irks me to see the English language going for a dump. You see what looks like it should be good copy, but the writers don't know where to put commas, when to use capitals, how to make proper sentences, where to put periods. This is just another symptom of the downhill slide we're in. Or is it just me, because I didn't learn Unifon?

fixerdave
12-16-2017, 02:20 AM
... Maker generally implies the idea of hacking something together. Maker generally doesn't convey craftsmanship, rather a more general approach...

Agreed. When I first heard of it, I got flashbacks to the early days of Punk. People out there just deciding to do what they want even though people were telling them they can't. Not engineers, at least not yet. Tools that most HSM types would cringe at. No concept of safety, the "right" way, nothing. But, they do, they make. May not look professional-pretty but it does what they want it to do, and that's all that matters.

Have to admit, I've got a lot of respect for that kind of attitude. Always have.

Yes, you need the professionals, the concert pianists and the exacting model builders. But, there's room in this world for approaching something from the other end, without schooling, without worrying about how proper the results are. That approach can lead to new things, new ways, and some of that can end up being the stuff people eventually learn from the masters.

Then again, that's just the baggage I tied to the word and I could be completely wrong. But, yeah, after seeing some of the work people have put up here, calling them Makers instead of Craftsmen, Model Engineers, etc., seems a bit of an insult. Kind of like calling that Concert Pianist a Punk. Then again, I knew a classical guitar player that played in a punk band too. I could see a trained engineer having a blast just "doing stuff" as a Maker, just for fun.

Whatever. It's all good.


...I'm just pointing out the fact (opinion?) that it seems to me the you tube generation seems to be in a constant state of discovery of things that have been around and "invented" for years....

My older brother was a recording engineer in the early punk days (thus my exposure to it) and said the same thing. So many young bands would come to him with stuff they thought was totally new... and he'd point out all the classic bands before that had already done it. It's just the way it is when you just "do stuff" instead of learning the basics first. Personally, when I find out one of my "brilliant" new ideas is actually what they've been teaching in textbooks for decades, I think it's pretty cool. I figured that out on my own. Reinventing a common solution isn't a problem, it just means your idea is already proven good. So what if you've learned it the hard way, it's yours now. Pat yourself on the back.

Just remember, just like Punk, while the vast majority of Maker work may be gratingly awful or stuff that has already been done before, there will be that small percentage of brilliance that is totally new and inventive. That's why the Punks and Makers exist. Let them play.

David...

Tim Aldrich
12-16-2017, 05:46 AM
"Maker" used to make me cringe a little. Then I started looking into the whole thing and I liked what I found. It seems a lot of them never took (or didn't have the option to take) a shop class and they're taking the initiative to learn on their own with the help of other "makers". It's pretty cool to see someone beam with pride when they've just made something for the first time. I don't much care what they call themselves so long as they continue to learn new skills and then pass them on to other people.

Puckdropper
12-16-2017, 07:12 AM
I happen to LIKE the term, for the reasons discussed here. I'm a bit of a woodworker, a newbie metal worker, a model railroader, electronics guy wanna be, and a jack of all trades. Maker would seem to describe me quite well.

Machine
12-16-2017, 07:49 AM
When did the term MAKER come into popular use. You are seen to be someone who can fabricate something IE: a machinist, welder, woodworker, general metal basher etc. (professional or amateur) and now you are a MAKER.


This must be a Canadian thing because I haven't heard this term used in this way. Closest I can think of is "homemaker" which is a pretty obsolete word nowadays. Or maybe "pattern maker" in the machining world, although maybe that's out of date too? You make it sound like it's used as a derisory term that effectively means "dumb blue collar guy" or "grease monkey" (slang for auto mechanic).

On the surface "maker" to me sounds pretty non-offensive, and potentially very complimentary depending on how one looks at it. I say that because nowadays the "makers", at least as we used to know them (machinists, wood working craftsmen etc), seem to be a pretty rare breed today due to the collapse of the industrial base within the western world over the past 40+ years. So if they're using "maker" to describe a rare person with very valuable and unique practical skills, then I'd take that as a compliment and wear the name proudly. Sure beats barista or curator or any number of new fancy sounding job titles that have emerged lately to describe unskilled, base level work.




"Young" person here. 27 years old. I'd like to say that I think older generations should ask themselves before denouncing/complaining about the "kids these days" if they are doing a service with their words/actions to encourage the change they want to see (in this case, getting young people involved in our HSM and similar pursuits) or simply giving them cause to forget about you faster when you're gone?

You just wait. I predict an even bigger gulf between your generation and the one that follows you. Before you judge us "old farts" too harshly, anticipate your own future. Hint: the divide between the generations is mostly driven by how much societal and technological change occurs within a generation. Considering the rate of change is accelerating, I fully anticipate you will be fully in our shoes sooner than you think!



IMO never before in human history has there been a time where knowledge and ideas were so freely shared between others. The internet, and youtube are absolutely incredible resources for anybody who wants to learn ANYTHING. Knowledge and skills previously only shared through trades, and guilds, are now freely broadcast via the internet for all in the world to see. I've always been very good at watching somebody do something and being able to pick it up pretty fast. For a person who learns like me, it's an incredible time to be alive. I wish it was like this when I was in school and college. I would have done a lot better.

Well said and very true.

tmarks11
12-16-2017, 09:20 AM
When did the term MAKER come into popular use. You are seen to be someone who can fabricate something IE: a machinist, welder, woodworker, general metal basher etc. (professional or amateur) and now you are a MAKER.

Don't rant. This is a philosophy that is sweeping through our society, where kids and young adults are getting interested in MAKING something instead of just buying junk at Walmart.

This is a welcome change considering where we have been for the past decade or two. It is getting kids interested in careers that align with our interests. Machining, welding, solid modeling, etc. This is a very positive development.

Would you rather people continue to be CONSUMERS instead of MAKERS, to avoid offending you with a new label as others find the same joy in craftsmanship that you have known all along?

Bob La Londe
12-16-2017, 10:37 AM
One of the things I am finding interesting is the guys who recycle things not typically recycled by individuals like plastics. Sure 3D plastic printing is cool, but making usable parts out of old plastic coffee cans is awesome.

gellfex
12-16-2017, 12:20 PM
The reason Make Magazine and "Maker" bothers me is most of what I see of it is utterly useless drivel and novelties. LED lit toys and 3-D printed tchotchkes. There's very little of actual value other than the basic idea of making crap. My kid was more of a "maker" when he was turning out crossbows and knives in my shop. Even then, he wasn't a craftsman at heart. If I made a crossbow, I'd take a dozen shots and go back to the shop to improve it, he'd shoot all day.

Here's an anecdote that truly encapsulates the young. He started rock climbing, and one of the safety devices is called a "nut". All it is is a wedge of AL with 2 drilled holes and a loop of crimped aircraft cable. So he made one in the shop (I have a proper crimper). I was proud. But then he chickened out of using it. Why? Well, the commercial ones have been rated and tested and such. No faith in his own work. There's people climbing in eastern Europe with rope knots jammed in cracks, and climbing has relied on homebuilt crap to advance for decades, but he doesn't trust the piece he made himself more than the one some factory drone made who knows where.

Ries
12-16-2017, 12:27 PM
The reason Make Magazine and "Maker" bothers me is most of what I see of it is utterly useless drivel and novelties. LED lit toys and 3-D printed tchotchkes. There's very little of actual value other than the basic idea of making crap. My kid was more of a "maker" when he was turning out crossbows and knives in my shop. Even then, he wasn't a craftsman at heart. If I made a crossbow, I'd take a dozen shots and go back to the shop to improve it, he'd shoot all day.

Here's an anecdote that truly encapsulates the young. He started rock climbing, and one of the safety devices is called a "nut". All it is is a wedge of AL with 2 drilled holes and a loop of crimped aircraft cable. So he made one in the shop (I have a proper crimper). I was proud. But then he chickened out of using it. Why? Well, the commercial ones have been rated and tested and such. No faith in his own work. There's people climbing in eastern Europe with rope knots jammed in cracks, and climbing has relied on homebuilt crap to advance for decades, but he doesn't trust the piece he made himself more than the one some factory drone made who knows where.


While I constantly tease my 3D printer friends about spending $75 and six hours to make a cereal box toy, and, thus, am firmly in the camp that is derisive of useless drivel- tell me, exactly, how this is any different from spending six months building a model steam engine?
It, too, is useless, aside from the basic idea of making it.

I know plenty of people of all ages who spend time making silly things, just to prove to themselves that they can.
I know a good half dozen guys over 50, including the police chief of a local town, who "make" cute creations by welding together scrap iron they find, with a ****ty little 110volt mig welder.
These guys are not craftsmen, any more than the kids printing cereal box toys are, but I dont begrudge them the right to do it, and to call themselves whatever they want.

Far too many of the older guys I know have spent tens of thousands, and years of time, to "make" the perfect shop, and then MAKE absolutely nothing in it.

leave the damn kids alone- they will figure it out.
we did.

gellfex
12-16-2017, 12:45 PM
Far too many of the older guys I know have spent tens of thousands, and years of time, to "make" the perfect shop, and then MAKE absolutely nothing in it.


SHHHHH... That's a forbidden topic here ain't it?

As for your "hobby" point, it's not my cup of tea, I haven't made useless crap since I was a teen taking art classes. Even my non-professional "hobby" work is something like my designing fishing jigs and machining a mold to cast them of lead.

danlb
12-16-2017, 02:10 PM
I like the maker movement simply because it feeds the home shop movement. My buddy has gone whole hog into 3d printing, and now sees the value of a CNC mill. His 3d modeling skills are fairly impressive. He's even starting to understand that structural engineering is a key to successful build.

I hate the maker movement simply because it over-simplifies the work, planning and processes that go into making things correctly. The Artists think that if they have a great weld when get two pieces of metal to stick together. Then they build a chandelier of old plumbing parts. <shudder>

I support the maker movement when possible simply because some portion of the makers become craftsmen. They move from the superficial to learning how things work and how to make them work better. It encourages learning.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-16-2017, 02:38 PM
I don't think anyone can really be a maker. The best we're able to be is a changer. We only change matter, not make it :)

Paul Alciatore
12-16-2017, 10:21 PM
"Maker"? Hummm! I have heard it and really do not object to it a lot. You have to remember that language evolves. If you don't believe me, try reading the original Shakespeare or, better yet, Beowulf. Words come and go and they also change meanings. In my youth I bemoaned this, but now I just reluctantly accept it.

That being said, there are some things that irritate me and some of them are right here, in this thread. Top of my list is probably the abandonment of proper capitalization. There is a reason for using capitals. It makes it easier to read the text. Another related thing is the use of all capitals. This is almost as bad as none.

As for words, some of the ones that I hate the most come from the computer world. It is a mystery to me that a person who can understand all the intricacies of a computer language that is totally unforgiving of even the smallest mistake can be so poor in his or her use of English. And yet, the ability to use both well seems to be very rare.

gellfex
12-16-2017, 11:55 PM
"Maker"? Hummm! I have heard it and really do not object to it a lot. You have to remember that language evolves. If you don't believe me, try reading the original Shakespeare or, better yet, Beowulf. Words come and go and they also change meanings. In my youth I bemoaned this, but now I just reluctantly accept it.


I cringed the other day hearing a principal talking about "growing his students".

J Tiers
12-17-2017, 03:07 AM
I cringed the other day hearing a principal talking about "growing his students".

And yet you would never object to someone talking about growing corn........ Think about that for 5 minutes.

Glug
12-17-2017, 08:56 AM
Blessed are the Cheesemakers..

And the Pacemakers..

https://www.use.com/images/s_2/d2e25a72d99d88dd6712.jpg

loose nut
12-17-2017, 03:16 PM
I cringed the other day hearing a principal talking about "growing his students".

So is this how, you send your kids to school, the teachers bury them in useless $#!+ and then you just add water.

loose nut
12-17-2017, 03:45 PM
To clarify something, it isn't the term itself that bothers me although "maker" as it is applied here is moronic in it's self but the fact that people who have spend decades perfecting there craft to a high level being lumped in with people who build something, that frequently but not always, looks like a high school shop project, well back when high schools had shop projects.

It is great that people and they are not all young people, have started to build again but not everyone that build stuff is a "maker". Yes building models in some eyes is stupid, I use it as a stress reliever so it is beneficial to me, but then to me spending a fortune fine tuning a rifle to punch holes in paper is daft too. Don't get me started on spending time freeze your butt off looking a a line going into the water in the hopes that a fish will get hooked. They have stores where you can buy them.

To take this thread to its end, the next burr in my arse is that to many people, now so removed from doing "real" work IE: no computer involved, keep referring to anyone that can swipe a file or use a drill as a Master Craftsman. You see it on DYI shows all the time. Some 20 (or 30) something being skilled enough to be a master craftsman at anything is rare at best. It used to be you did your apprenticeship then, 20 years as a journeyman before you could be tested by your guild to see if you warranted the title of "Master". It wasn't something that was bandied about because it was bloody hard to get. Master Craftsmen used to be older men for a reason, it took that long. It has been so cheapened as to be meaningless. All of this is just another example of the general dumbing down of society that has taken place since the invasion of computers into everyday life.

If people want to be called Makers then so be it, I'm happy for them but they should keep it to themselves and not inflict it on the rest of us.

mklotz
12-17-2017, 04:20 PM
Let me make a wild guess here...

You don't like "life hack" amateur videos?

J Tiers
12-17-2017, 05:12 PM
Let me make a wild guess here...

You don't like "life hack" amateur videos?

They are fine.... those and all the other "how to" videos......

The problem with lots of the various "how to" type videos is that they would benefit a lot from being made by folks who knew more than their audience about the subject....... 'nuff said.

hareng
12-17-2017, 05:21 PM
So who has had a job with Maker in the job title?

Glug
12-17-2017, 05:33 PM
I dare any of the grumblers in this thread to go tell their wife she's not a homemaker.

JRouche
12-17-2017, 05:34 PM
I thought it was describing the makerbot group of folks. JR

hareng
12-17-2017, 05:37 PM
Totally agree Loosenut but must say i have never heard the expression used over here in decades.

Going back 160 years certain job titles had maker in it.
Aware of the term lock, stock and barrel, in short you have specialists in each field actioners, filers, individuals in locks who all reported to the Spring Maker i was one.
Nowadays its all cnc and or wire eroded but still need fitters who moan at removing 4 thou. Other obstacle theres no one to train them up on springs, any old crap goes out.

tmarks11
12-17-2017, 05:42 PM
I thought it was describing the makerbot group of folks. JR

Maker Faires started in 2006.

Makerbot company was launched in 2009. They named their company after the existing Maker community.

randyjaco
12-17-2017, 06:54 PM
Personally I prefer to be called a Tinkerer. I fix things, break things, modify things , improve things, store things and invent things. Sometimes I just play with things in my shop. Meanwhile, I also get to play with all sorts of neat tools I own.

Randy

loose nut
12-17-2017, 08:32 PM
I dare any of the grumblers in this thread to go tell their wife she's not a homemaker.

There is a big difference between being a homemaker, spring maker or any other profession ending in maker or wright or smith and what the modern "maker" is. Apples and oranges.

J Tiers, your right I don't watch those videos or similar vids or TV shows based on the same premise, mostly because as you said they know less then the people watching. Anybody here remember Airsmith. 'Nuf said.

P.S many wife's are not homemakers any more. They have to have a job too.

RichR
12-17-2017, 09:30 PM
So who has had a job with Maker in the job title?

Although I've never held the title in an official capacity, the term troublemaker has been used on occasion when referring to me.:rolleyes:

George Bulliss
12-18-2017, 07:45 AM
So who has had a job with Maker in the job title?

I have a journeyman card that says I'm a mold maker:)

JCHannum
12-18-2017, 09:50 AM
I find the term "Maker" rather cheesy also it is just another attempt to put a label on everybody and drop them into a slot.

What is the opposite of "Maker"? A chance to get even would be to label those incapable of making anything of value. Perhaps "Waster" would be fitting.

FWIW, I build models and target shoot. Both pursuits rely heavily on my shop and assorted skills I have developed. I also do crossword puzzles, anything to keep the mind active is good for it.

Bob La Londe
12-18-2017, 10:24 AM
I have a journeyman card that says I'm a mold maker:)

Really? That's 98-99% of what I do for customers now-a-days. Make molds. Primarily casting and low pressure injection, but also press dies, roto-molding, and some "higher" pressure injection as well. I saw the smiley so I wondered if it was a joke I missed. Occasionally I get to make some other parts, but its usually related. One of my upcoming projects is to turn some taper extensions for some rod making mandrels. I just redid a couple different dash and control panels for boats. Lots of guys are thrilled to replace their broken plastic panels with 5052 aluminum sheet.

Bob La Londe
12-18-2017, 10:25 AM
I find the term "Maker" rather cheesy also it is just another attempt to put a label on everybody and drop them into a slot.

What is the opposite of "Maker"? A chance to get even would be to label those incapable of making anything of value. Perhaps "Waster" would be fitting.

FWIW, I build models and target shoot. Both pursuits rely heavily on my shop and assorted skills I have developed. I also do crossword puzzles, anything to keep the mind active is good for it.

The term wastrel has already been used in society. Very close.

George Bulliss
12-18-2017, 10:33 AM
Really? That's 98-99% of what I do for customers now-a-days. Make molds. Primarily casting and low pressure injection, but also press dies, roto-molding, and some "higher" pressure injection as well. I saw the smiley so I wondered if it was a joke I missed.

Nope, no joke; that's how I paid the bills for years. I did mostly plastic injection, though worked on a lot of die cast tools at one shop.

Dan Dubeau
12-18-2017, 10:40 AM
What is the opposite of "Maker"? A chance to get even would be to label those incapable of making anything of value. Perhaps "Waster" would be fitting.

Consumer seems to fit pretty good.....

Bob La Londe
12-18-2017, 10:57 AM
Nope, no joke; that's how I paid the bills for years. I did mostly plastic injection, though worked on a lot of die cast tools at one shop.

WELL THEN!!!! I won't argue with you about micro milling. LOL.

gellfex
12-18-2017, 01:35 PM
Don't get me started on spending time freeze your butt off looking a a line going into the water in the hopes that a fish will get hooked. They have stores where you can buy them.

For many fishing is more about getting out of the house and into nature than anything else. Some people hike, some birdwatch, some collect butterflies and bugs, but it all gets you out. A lot of guys catch way more fish than they keep, some fisheries are catch and release only. Me, in the last few years I've combined my sport since my late 20's, kayaking, with the fishing I hadn't done much since I was a kid. Gets me out hopefully once a week most of the year and puts food on the table. This week it was Vietnamese clay pot blackfish.

If you're talking about ice fishing, from what I hear from my Wisconsin born wife, that is totally about getting out of the house and drinking.

Jim Stewart
12-18-2017, 03:24 PM
I find the term "Maker" rather cheesy also it is just another attempt to put a label on everybody and drop them into a slot.

What is the opposite of "Maker"? A chance to get even would be to label those incapable of making anything of value. Perhaps "Waster" would be fitting.

FWIW, I build models and target shoot. Both pursuits rely heavily on my shop and assorted skills I have developed. I also do crossword puzzles, anything to keep the mind active is good for it.

What's the opposite of "maker"? Wanker. :cool:

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-18-2017, 03:51 PM
What's the opposite of "maker"? Wanker. :cool:

I gather "Faker" would be. I detest fakers immensely.

engineerd3d
12-18-2017, 04:13 PM
Someone mentioned in the thread that someone spent 75$ to make cereal toy. I am not sure that is true anymore. My plastic cost 16$ or less at a brick and mortar store per kilo, ~2.2LB. I can make a hell of allot of trinkets with it. Not only that but that 3d printer is teaching me a useful skill. CAD, how many people got into CAD and 3d modeling because of those printers, which I may add can be bought for under 200$ today....

Now back on topic, maker... I am not sure I agree with the dislike, in this world there are few truths that hold. Death/taxes/constant flux seem to be the 3 major things in this world. It seems people fear all 3.

loose nut
12-18-2017, 06:26 PM
I have a journeyman card that says I'm a mold maker:)

You may be a mold maker George but that dosen't necessarily qualify you to be a "maker".

dave_r
12-18-2017, 07:50 PM
I don't know what's so hard about being a mold maker. I always seem to be making a batch of it in my fridge.

Max McGrumpy
12-18-2017, 08:17 PM
Typical.

OLD PEOPLE: "No one is learning the trades. The art of making and fixing stuff is dying out with us."

YOUNG PEOPLE: "Lets learn how to make stuff and hack stuff together because we never learned how!"

OLD PEOPLE: "God damn it all these new kids and the new ways of doing what we did a generation before! How dare they make stuff and figure stuff out like we did!"


Called it. Not the first discussion I've had with the old guard about this. First they bitch that no one is worthy to learn, then no one wants to learn and "kids these days" so on so forth. Then they complain they can't retire because no one has taken their place... then they complain when people step up with the skills... Then they complain about being left behind.

I'm sure in a few years I'll be complaining about kids these days and their quantum-manipulation matrix systems... damn it back in my day we actually had to physically manipulate matter with tools, and there just aren't that many of us left who know what a wrench is...

loose nut
12-19-2017, 09:12 AM
Na, mostly we just bitch because they sit on their arse's all the time playing video games and getting fat instead of doing something for real.

Puckdropper
12-19-2017, 09:33 AM
What is the opposite of "Maker"? A chance to get even would be to label those incapable of making anything of value. Perhaps "Waster" would be fitting.


Waster goes hand in hand with maker. You've got to be willing to turn perfectly good material into useless scrap if you want to make anything.

Kmschr
12-19-2017, 11:57 AM
I'm gonna have to agree with the older guys here. 19 here and learning the ways of manufacturing and goofing around with metal. It seems like a lot of these "Maker" spaces that have been popping around are simply rooms with a few 3D printers in them and basic tools. As fun as 3D printing can be, it still seems pretty useless for most applications and it makes me cringe to see how many people my age don't even know about the existence of mills or lathes and so associate "Maker" with people who don't really make much of anything. It's a shame they're no longer teaching shop in schools so that students will have more time to take classes like AP Psychology. I'm not so sure about elsewhere, but in my state the case seemed to be that school performance ratings were highly influenced by the amount of students graduating with these "AP" courses, and so the high schools started neglecting trade classes.

engineerd3d
12-19-2017, 12:13 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with the older guys here. 19 here and learning the ways of manufacturing and goofing around with metal. It seems like a lot of these "Maker" spaces that have been popping around are simply rooms with a few 3D printers in them and basic tools. As fun as 3D printing can be, it still seems pretty useless for most applications and it makes me cringe to see how many people my age don't even know about the existence of mills or lathes and so associate "Maker" with people who don't really make much of anything. It's a shame they're no longer teaching shop in schools so that students will have more time to take classes like AP Psychology. I'm not so sure about elsewhere, but in my state the case seemed to be that school performance ratings were highly influenced by the amount of students graduating with these "AP" courses, and so the high schools started neglecting trade classes.

They have not been teaching shop class in schools since the early 90's. Most adults (during my childhood) didn't own a pair of pliers when I was growing up, (My dad being an exception as he was always a guy with tools and tough me allot.). Growing up in the 90's meant that over protective parents were scared of shop, they refused to let their bundle of misery play with dangerous tools. Instead their bundle of misery got high behind the school where the shop class window was and now was used for storage. We had parents try to convince the school that chemistry lab was too dangerous for the students as well. I imagine things are much worse now. With that said, I would have killed to have a 3d printer and some hand tool access in a maker space to spend time with like minded people, a mill and a lathe are great tools as well, don't get me wrong. But how about a power drill and a hand saw first? The past two generations are ill equipped to own hand tools, master those first.

flylo
12-19-2017, 01:40 PM
OT: Who came up with the term MAKER. I bet our Maker did in a different text!

JCHannum
12-19-2017, 02:14 PM
Waster goes hand in hand with maker. You've got to be willing to turn perfectly good material into useless scrap if you want to make anything.

You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, and you cannot machine something without producing chips. You can grind eggshells and use them as mulch and you can recover your chips and short ends by melting them in your foundry and making castings. There is no such thing as useless scrap.

gellfex
12-19-2017, 02:32 PM
They have not been teaching shop class in schools since the early 90's.

While I agree about shop class, I also spent like half a semester of 8th grade in 1975 learning hand typesetting! It was long obsolete even then. They need to teach not the specific job, but to give kids the tools and confidence to learn it.

My dad was not a great craftsman, it skipped a generation, both my grandads were but neither were able to teach me. Luckily I got fearlessness from my mom, and dove right into whatever I wanted to try and make.

loose nut
12-19-2017, 06:30 PM
You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, and you cannot machine something without producing chips. You can grind eggshells and use them as mulch and you can recover your chips and short ends by melting them in your foundry and making castings. There is no such thing as useless scrap.

That might be true but just because you made an omelet dosen't mean it edible.

Optics Curmudgeon
12-19-2017, 06:59 PM
Stanislaw Lem called them "Constructors", but that might just have been a bad translation from the Polish.

Me, I'm a Trouble Maker.

loose nut
12-20-2017, 09:21 AM
OT: Who came up with the term MAKER. I bet our Maker did in a different text!

Not likely, probably one of his salesmen did.