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View Full Version : O/T: Cat stuff. Ranging and locating with head movement.



JRouche
12-17-2017, 10:47 PM
Ok!! Solly. Way off topic for a machining forum. I like cats.

So all (3) of them seem to zero in a target with vertical movement of their head.

My thought is are they doing that head move (eyes firmly on the target) to determine distance? It seems so from here.

I think cats have a very good sensory for distance. Vectoring two views to give a distance. Impressive.

Ok, sorry. Cat Lady out :) JR

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-17-2017, 11:03 PM
Are they excited about what they are seeing, or are they sizing up a potential threat?

1-800miner
12-17-2017, 11:09 PM
Ever watch lizards do "pushups"? They are ranging.
Horses do it with side to side head motion.
Cows just stand there.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-17-2017, 11:12 PM
What about when a cat's jaw goes into a spasm when you wave a stick with a feather around in the air.

EDIT: or they are watching birds. What's really going on here?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILFCDPjwSBw

paul463
12-17-2017, 11:29 PM
I like their sound location by swiveling their ears independently.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-17-2017, 11:49 PM
My cat is really sweaty but also really sweet. One problem I keep having with him is he doesn't realize how hard his "love bites" are and I haven't figured out how to communicate that to him. Whenever I'm lying in bed watching TV or on the laptop he'll often come up and put his nose on my arm, sometimes lick it a little bit, then very slowly open his mouth and start chewing on my arm with very little pressure but then slowly starts increasing the pressure until I have to interrupt him as it's starting to really hurt. Also, if I stop petting him he will start staring at me and often will re-position himself so he push his head under my hand and if I continue to ignore him then he'll start biting. He's never drawn blood but I'm sure that's only because I stop him from doing so. I wish there was a way to stop him from progressing his bites that always start of softly. I think I read somewhere that often when cats don't experience play biting from other cats they don't realize their play biting hurts.

I think it's the same type of behavior like this cheetah does but more aggressive


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlGfi2ofzFc

RichR
12-17-2017, 11:58 PM
My cat is really sweat. ...

Turn down the heat, then it won't sweat.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-18-2017, 12:04 AM
Turn down the heat, then it won't sweat.

The cat is always sweaty and it's only 68 deg. :)

dave_r
12-18-2017, 12:54 AM
My cat is really sweaty but also really sweet. One problem I keep having with him is he doesn't realize how hard his "love bites" are and I haven't figured out how to communicate that to him. Whenever I'm lying in bed watching TV or on the laptop he'll often come up and put his nose on my arm, sometimes lick it a little bit, then very slowly open his mouth and start chewing on my arm with very little pressure but then slowly starts increasing the pressure until I have to interrupt him as it's starting to really hurt. Also, if I stop petting him he will start staring at me and often will re-position himself so he push his head under my hand and if I continue to ignore him then he'll start biting. He's never drawn blood but I'm sure that's only because I stop him from doing so. I wish there was a way to stop him from progressing his bites that always start of softly. I think I read somewhere that often when cats don't experience play biting from other cats they don't realize their play biting hurts.

I think it's the same type of behavior like this cheetah does but more aggressive


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlGfi2ofzFc

This pretty much describes my dog. Except there's more drooling.

J Tiers
12-18-2017, 12:59 AM
The cat is not getting what he wants.... and he nips to get your attention.

Ours do the same.

If it gets annoying, I give the beast a "soft paw" to the face, just like mom-cat would. They "get it" and stop (for a while).

To have cats, you really need to understand cat customs and language. It's really quite interesting.

loose nut
12-18-2017, 09:11 AM
The difference between cats and dogs - if somebody attacked you your dog would fight along side you, a cat would sit back and take bets on who would win!

Joe Rogers
12-18-2017, 09:14 AM
Dogs have owners...Cats have staff.
Joe

Fasttrack
12-18-2017, 09:30 AM
I think I read somewhere that often when cats don't experience play biting from other cats they don't realize their play biting hurts.



Yep. I've got a cat that was abandoned as a kitty with her eyes still closed. She had similar biting problems but I fixed that by biting back. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. It worked, though. We're thick as thieves now.

Fasttrack
12-18-2017, 09:32 AM
To have cats, you really need to understand cat customs and language. It's really quite interesting.

Yep. They're tremendously interesting creatures.


The difference between cats and dogs - if somebody attacked you your dog would fight along side you, a cat would sit back and take bets on who would win!

Just the way I like it! I don't want a lackey.

MrFluffy
12-18-2017, 10:33 AM
The difference between cats and dogs - if somebody attacked you your dog would fight along side you, a cat would sit back and take bets on who would win!

Thats deference to you as head hunter though, its respect that they don't want to take your kills. The few occasions I have cornered a mouse with the cats about, they all just step back and let me deal with it, really really stand offish and I know theyre all superb hunters. It really puzzled me at first, but I found if instead of trying to catch it myself, I left the room about 0.5 seconds after I had gone, there was squeals inside as small rodent was being slain by fluffy assassins.

Owls bob their head to rangefind, but thats because their eyes are too large to rotate to percieve depth of vision. I've never noticed our feline assasin squad doing that, but they do make the mental chirp watching birds through the windows from inside.

MrFluffy
12-18-2017, 10:39 AM
Yea gods, just googled causes for head bobbing in cats. Think I'd having a chat with the vets next visit!
Having said that, I've googled for symptoms of my own health things in the past, and the causes have been everything from slight annoyance to died several weeks ago, so best not panic.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-18-2017, 11:27 AM
Yep. I've got a cat that was abandoned as a kitty with her eyes still closed. She had similar biting problems but I fixed that by biting back. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. It worked, though. We're thick as thieves now.

When my cat is biting me, he will turn more aggressive if I don't grab his nape and pull his head away. He will then stare at me with his mouth still open and his eyes squinting like he's annoyed now. If I blink very slowly and keep my eyes closed for a few seconds then he usually snaps out of it and will start licking his paw and forget anything happened.

J Tiers
12-18-2017, 11:37 AM
Yep. I've got a cat that was abandoned as a kitty with her eyes still closed. She had similar biting problems but I fixed that by biting back. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. It worked, though. We're thick as thieves now.

Good one!

Done the same... that and "dirt scratching" as a means of disapproval.... They understand both very well indeed.

J Tiers
12-18-2017, 11:41 AM
When my cat is biting me, he will turn more aggressive if I don't grab his nape and pull his head away. He will then stare at me with his mouth still open and his eyes squinting like he's annoyed now. If I blink very slowly and keep my eyes closed for a few seconds then he usually snaps out of it and will start licking his paw and forget anything happened.

Blink like that and, with your eyes closed, turn your head in another direction before you open them.

A stare is a challenge, or an indication of interest in attacking. Eyes closed like that is a signal that you are relaxed, neither acting as a threat, nor perceiving a threat.

Willy
12-18-2017, 11:54 AM
Cats like to play and the longer they play the rougher it gets. Just have a look when they are roughhousing by themselves or with each other, they don't mess around, it gets pretty intense! When they start getting a little too rough you have to tone the situation down a bit in order to slow things down to a manageable level.:)

You think you've got problems, try slowing a lynx down.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mii3yPevWmc

Black Forest
12-18-2017, 12:21 PM
Hey Willie, isn't that just like a woman! Stimulate you until you react and then shut you down.

As to cats and dogs. I was always told you have a dog to adore you and a cat to ignore you.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-18-2017, 12:35 PM
Hey Willie, isn't that just like a woman! Stimulate you until you react and then shut you down.

As to cats and dogs. I was always told you have a dog to adore you and a cat to ignore you.

I often wish my cat would ignore me. I'll be standing in the kitchen preparing some food and all of a sudden I feel something bite the back of my leg.. DAMMMMNN I hate that!!!! Scares the crap out of me every single time. I have no idea why, but I always immediately think something else bit me and I'll look down and see my cat looking up at me "It's just me you dumb ass".

Fasttrack
12-18-2017, 12:38 PM
I often wish my cat would ignore me. I'll be standing in the kitchen preparing some food and all of a sudden I feel something bite the back of my leg.. DAMMMMNN I hate that!!!! Scares the crap out of me every single time. I have no idea why, but I always immediately think something else bit me and I'll look down and see my cat looking up at me "It's just me you dumb ass".

LOL - My cat doesn't bite anymore but she'll give me a little cackle as a warning and then proceed to jump climb my legs and shirt until she can headbutt me. Sometimes we end up doing a little dance with me trying to finish whatever I was doing while avoiding being climbed like a tree.

Black Forest
12-18-2017, 12:41 PM
Ever watch lizards do "pushups"? They are ranging.
Horses do it with side to side head motion.
Cows just stand there.

Sorry Mr. Miner but when a horse is swinging its head side to side to see something it is using both of its eyes. Horses have monocular vision. We humans have binocular vision. Most animals of prey have their eyes on the sides of their heads so they can see an attack coming from behing easier. Their vison is actually split. If a horse sees something from one side with one eye and then they come from the other direction and see it with the other eye they will act like they have never seen that thing before. Their brain doesn't register things the same as we do. The side to side motion is as if they were looking through two different long glasses. You know the kind like you see on every pirate movie. This monocular vision plays a huge roll in training horses.

Horses raise their heads to focus on distant objects whether that is ranging or not I don't know.

Baz
12-18-2017, 12:56 PM
Back to original question. Look at your cat's eyes. The pupils are vertical slits unlike our own round ones. This means their eyes are designed to be able to resolve finer detail in a horizontal plane effectively the horizon of the open savannah where they evolved. Mostly there was no value in seeing small detail in the sky.
Just as when we can't see something clearly we move our head instinctively to use parallax effects to add to our understanding of the view so it is likely they do too, but only need to for vertical resolution.

J Tiers
12-18-2017, 01:00 PM
What about goats? Their pupils are horizontal.....

Agree on cats... hunting things on the ground, not worried about stuff in the air.

gellfex
12-18-2017, 01:22 PM
The difference between cats and dogs - if somebody attacked you your dog would fight along side you, a cat would sit back and take bets on who would win!

I've seen that when one cat is taking on a trespasser and the other sits there watching, like "yeah, you get get him, I've got your back".

Baz
12-18-2017, 01:35 PM
My physics teacher only explained cats and after 50 years I can't remember the maths behind 'stopping down' now anyway.
However re goats this is really interesting. http://theconversation.com/revealed-why-animals-pupils-come-in-different-shapes-and-sizes-45796
only 3 minutes and something I had never realised.

Willy
12-18-2017, 02:55 PM
Most of the cats I've been close to have been very protective and have actually helped me chase stray dogs out of the yard. Had a friend over one time with a large dog, I asked him that it may be an idea to put him in the truck. As I was leading the dog out of the gate the cat thought I was having a problem and helped me "attack" the dog. The dog remained in the cab of the truck for the remainder of the visit while the cat paced back and forth on the hood trying to get at the dog. Ballsy or what!

They are very independent though, when it suits them, but all of the cats I've had followed me around all day long like a dog. Perhaps due to lots of bonding and me being able to read and interact with them, I've always been a cat person. I love dogs too but have always had a close working relationship with cats, it just takes more effort to build that relationship than it does with a dog.

Some interesting information from Wikipedia about the senses that cats share.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_senses)

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-18-2017, 03:22 PM
I work in my home office every day so I'm always home with the animals (cat, kids guinea pigs, male+female gerbil (due any day to give 1st litter and unstoppable 2nd litter), and hamsters). The cat follows me around the house all of the time except when he is sleeping. The other animals are in their own area downstairs. I've been hanging around in the garage/shop at nights and the cat will often follow me downstairs when I'm headed into the garage but I obviously don't want him in there with me but he will stay outside the door for a good ~15 minutes crying -- it's sad but what can I do!

Willy
12-18-2017, 05:28 PM
I work in my home office every day so I'm always home with the animals (cat, kids guinea pigs, male+female gerbil (due any day to give 1st litter and unstoppable 2nd litter), and hamsters). The cat follows me around the house all of the time except when he is sleeping. The other animals are in their own area downstairs. I've been hanging around in the garage/shop at nights and the cat will often follow me downstairs when I'm headed into the garage but I obviously don't want him in there with me but he will stay outside the door for a good ~15 minutes crying -- it's sad but what can I do!

I hear ya.
Much as I'd like to I don't let dogs or cats into the shop because of the swarf. Too many things in there for them to get into trouble with. Heck even the mice don't go in there.
The entertainment/lounge/office side though is open to them though anytime I'm on that side of the shop.

PStechPaul
12-19-2017, 05:46 AM
Growing up we always had dogs, but my mother didn't like cats. When I went on my own I acquired two female cats that got pregnant, and they gave birth to four kittens each. They would bring their kittens into my bed and they all crawled into my sleeping bag with me. When I bought my house I soon acquired cats. They became mostly outside cats and usually didn't last very long. Around 2000 my friend gave me two kittens, a male (Meson) and a female (Photon). Meson was a bit of a bully and eventually Photon tangled with him and chased him away. He came back about a year later and she evicted him again.

When I got my dog Muttley in 2006 I found he was very cat aggressive and she spent most of her time outside or hiding under the floor. In October she was struck and killed by a car. I had Muttley euthanized when he got sick in 2015. At the end of the year my friend found a small Maine Coon mix that I adopted, and named her Skeeter. I got my dog Mr Tibbs in June and eventually they got along OK. A few months ago she started acting strangely, being less affectionate, and stopped using her litter box and peed and pooped in the shower and elsewhere. She went outside and I brought her back in, but then she got out again and was gone. My neighbors said they saw her later that week but not after that.

I am now much more a dog person.

For a good idea of how big cats play with each other and people, watch the movie "Roar" (the most dangerous movie ever made):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi3fz5Dbn6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRGMOLyYKUA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(1981_film)

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-19-2017, 09:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi3fz5Dbn6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRGMOLyYKUA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(1981_film)

Anyone catch the name of that film? I thought I might have seen it mentioned but not sure :)

J Tiers
12-19-2017, 11:00 AM
Big cats and small cats act very much the same. Small cats are not dominant over people, that's the difference. And their play is less damaging.

I like dogs and cats, but choose to have cats myself, and just visit the dogs. 99% of both like me. Some are afraid of me because they know I do not act quite like the usual person... I am just a little more animal-like, and it freaks them.

As for cats, and ignoring people, not our cats..... they are all over people, like dogs. Push their heads under your hand to get petted, etc. We have had cat-disliking folks tell us that they would like cats if they acted like ours do.

Fasttrack
12-19-2017, 11:52 AM
Big cats and small cats act very much the same. Small cats are not dominant over people, that's the difference. And their play is less damaging.

I like dogs and cats, but choose to have cats myself, and just visit the dogs. 99% of both like me. Some are afraid of me because they know I do not act quite like the usual person... I am just a little more animal-like, and it freaks them.

As for cats, and ignoring people, not our cats..... they are all over people, like dogs. Push their heads under your hand to get petted, etc. We have had cat-disliking folks tell us that they would like cats if they acted like ours do.

I think cats are just ignore strangers. I've had a couple of cats and been around loads of barn cats. None of them ignored me once we got introduced. Unlike dogs, getting introduced to a cat is a long process of feigned disinterest. But once you're past that, most tend to be friendly (or outright aggressive if they decide they don't like you!)

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-19-2017, 12:09 PM
One of our favorite pets was Merlin, our African gray parrot. We decided to get a new home for her when our Son was born as Merlin was always un-caged and grays can bite very, very hard so we didn't want to risk anyone getting hurt. Now that the kids are mostly grown I've been thinking about getting another gray. My wife really wants an umbrella cockatoo so we might go that route soon.

Here is a video of Merlin and I teasing each other..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8jh8MIiIQ

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-19-2017, 12:14 PM
Another video of Merlin listening to a new tune for the first time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWy5Y51TsyM

J Tiers
12-19-2017, 12:57 PM
I think cats are just ignore strangers. I've had a couple of cats and been around loads of barn cats. None of them ignored me once we got introduced. Unlike dogs, getting introduced to a cat is a long process of feigned disinterest. But once you're past that, most tend to be friendly (or outright aggressive if they decide they don't like you!)

usually, at least one of ours will visit anyone who comes in the house. It's not always the same cat. They do not do the ignore thing.

But, the 20 lb orange cat got out of his carrier, and lay right down in the front hall when he was first here. He looked around, and said to himself (you could just about see it) "this will do". Then he looked around more and said to himself "the servants look reasonably competent" (you could see that too). All the other cats have hidden for a couple days. Not this one. But he is the friendliest beast you can imagine. We call him the "doggie", he is nearly as big as a Corg, and acts like a dog.

Some of that is the cat's individual personality, and a good bit is how you act towards them, which affects how they view people.

TGTool
12-19-2017, 06:22 PM
So, if they're doing ranging moving by their heads up and down looking forward, are they butt-ranging as they waggle back and forth before pouncing?

One other possible explanation is a built-in motion for hiding and checking on quarry. I've seen videos of varieties of wild cats hiding behind rocks or logs, then popping up for a quick look before ducking down again to hide.

One of my four cats also does sort of a gnawing to biting behavior to get the attention he wants. Others paw for it.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-29-2017, 12:30 PM
OMG I love the Umbrella Cockatoo now...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxRyMF4iVuM

Black Forest
12-29-2017, 02:50 PM
One of our favorite pets was Merlin, our African gray parrot. We decided to get a new home for her when our Son was born as Merlin was always un-caged and grays can bite very, very hard so we didn't want to risk anyone getting hurt. Now that the kids are mostly grown I've been thinking about getting another gray. My wife really wants an umbrella cockatoo so we might go that route soon.

Here is a video of Merlin and I teasing each other..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8jh8MIiIQ

African gray's are unbelievable mimics of the human voice. My parents had 4 large parrots that lived on the porch in their south Florida home. A Macaw, a big Cockatoo(sp) and 2 African Grays. My parents asked my brother and I if we would look out for the home while they were on vacation. Big mistake......Beautiful home, big large terrace out back with a screened in pool. Cabana more like a guest house and a full blown professional stereo system....! I don't think their car was out of the driveway before my brother and I started calling all our friends for the big party. And a big party we had that lasted 3 days and nights. Beer kegs and caterers not stop for three days. So parents come home and invite a few of their friends for a dinner party that took place out on the terrace. They invited my brother and I as a thank you for taking care of the place. Ha, if they only knew.
Well it turned out they found out in a very embarrassing manner. You see the parrots were very close to the door of the pool bathroom with the louvered doors and to one of the bedrooms in the pool house. So while we are sitting there at dinner on the terrace the African Gray's start in with the mimicking of pissing along with the Ahhhh that accompanies a good beer piss. Farts that would shame a Redneck.....And the sound of a woman enjoying having sex.....It sounded absolutely real... All the quests were shocked, with some laughing and some really embarrassed. My mother of course was livid with my brother and I and told us to meet her in the study right now. Of course she wanted to know what went on while they were gone. We just told her we had a few friends over that was all. They had to get rid of the African Grays. Whenever anyone would come to the house they would start in with the party highlights.

PStechPaul
12-29-2017, 06:09 PM
Good thing your party didn't turn out like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_X_(2012_film)