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brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 12:33 PM
I didn't want to start off with a post titled "Damn, I done something dumb."--But--Every month I get a tool catalogue from Travers, and in it they have these pretty anodised aluminum chuck spacers with built in magnets to hold them to the chuck face. They are supposed to let you chuck up really short pieces in the 3 jaw lathe chuck and grip them "Square and true" to the spindle axis. Well okay--that sounded good to me. They showed 3 different sizes for the low low price of $60 plus shipping. I thought "What a great deal!! I'll order that set"--and I did.---and when it got here, Surprise, surprise--that low low price was for only one of the three they showed--and they sent me the shortest one, 5/8" thick. The jaws on my chuck stick out 1 1/4" from the face of the chuck. Well POOP!!! this damned thing is no good to me and I'm out $60 bucks.
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5350/TFhWcp.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/9290/RJo2sV.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4710/mK7gkg.jpg

RB211
02-10-2018, 12:37 PM
I've been having the opposite problem from Amazon. Order one Dyson vacuum roller clutch, and got two. Same thing with a computer power supply.

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 12:47 PM
So, its been stuck to the back of my lathes splash apron for a year now, and everytime I walk into my machine shop it jumps up and shouts "Dumb-ass" at me. Having truly ran out of everything else to do this week, I decided maybe, possibly, I can do something to make this thing useable.
In a perfect world, it would have been 1 1/16" thick, which would let me chuck something in the last 3/16" of my chuck jaws. That means I have to figure out some way to add 7/16" to the thickness of this thing. There is no really good way to bolt another spacer to this spacer, but it does have 3 "lightening" holes in it. Now if a man were to fill them lightening holes with J.B.Weld, maybe something could be done. Remember--the spacer doesn't take any load. It is simply a spacer. Checking my stock rack, I find a length of 1/2" x 1/4" cold rolled flatbar. Now, if I were to cut 3 pieces and weld them together at 120 degrees, and find a way to secure them to the face of that pretty anodized part maybe--just maybe---
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/8568/Go1hag.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2615/YIMk81.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/3668/hS3XGH.jpg

3 Phase Lightbulb
02-10-2018, 12:52 PM
Is it still too deep for the parts you wanted to use, or not deep enough? If it's too deep, you could just machine some spacers that you toss in there before clamping in your part(s). If it's not deep enough, maybe just face mill it down to whatever size you want on your mill.

You can see the single, 3 and 5 sets they sell online:

https://www.travers.com/chuck-stops-sets/p/381986/?keyword=lathe%20chuck&lite=true&pricelistname=SITE

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 12:54 PM
With the 3 pieces of flatbar clamped to something solid that isn't going to let them move while I'm welding them, we proceed with our trusty mig. The hole in the aluminum plate where the 3 bars come together is to give me unrestricted access to the area I want to weld. I know everything is going to squirm around a bit anyway when it's welded, but this doesn't concern me too much, as both sides are going to be machined flat eventually.
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/9780/iQNQbY.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2913/IF9yHr.jpg

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 01:30 PM
The ends of the arms on the new weldment have been tapped #5-40 and shcs inserted. Now comes the J.B. weld part. I will degrease everything with laquer thinners, apply J.B. Weld to the face of the spider and set the new weldment on top of it, with the shcs extending into the lightening holes in the aluminum. Then I will pour these cavities full of J.B. Weld. After a couple of days for set-up time, I will clamp the ends of the aluminum arms down against my mill table and take a few very light cuts with the mill to true up the face of the new bars parallel to the side of the aluminum clamped to my mill bed.
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/258/YeXWk8.jpg

Mr Fixit
02-10-2018, 01:50 PM
Brian,

Before you fill the holes what about locating pins in the same place as the holes to let it all stay in place as you setup the part and your not having to fiddle with the steel, or will you use the magnets to secure it and not have it hold to the chuck?
Either way at least you have put your $60.00 back to work for you. Now you just need to make them in different thicknesses to accommodate all situations.

Keep us posted on the functionality. looks like you got it!

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris :)

A.K. Boomer
02-10-2018, 01:51 PM
Clumsy bastard...

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 02:19 PM
And there we have it. A rather goopy looking mess at the moment, but when that J.B. Weld hardens up and the new "face" on the non magnet side is machined, I might actually get some use out of that thing.
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/1609/ooc3mi.jpg

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 02:23 PM
The new weldment was attached to the non magnetic side. The magnets will still hold the fixture to the face of the chuck as was intended. That last picture actually shows the magnetic side up and the cavities filled with J.B. weld to "anchor" the heads and shanks of the #5-40 shcs.

RB211
02-10-2018, 02:40 PM
The new weldment was attached to the non magnetic side. The magnets will still hold the fixture to the face of the chuck as was intended. That last picture actually shows the magnetic side up and the cavities filled with J.B. weld to "anchor" the heads and shanks of the #5-40 shcs.

A chuck with two piece jaws, so you can use soft jaws. Machine the jaws to exactly what you need.

Paul Alciatore
02-10-2018, 02:45 PM
That's a nice fix.

But I would have been on the phone right away, claiming false advertisement and fraud. I would not have been happy until they provided a full refund, INCLUDING SHIPPING AND HANDLING charges and paid the full cost of the return shipment. If you don't rattle their cage, they don't get the point and they continue the deceptive advertising.

Heck, I would have even asked for them to pay for my time for shipping it back. They probably wouldn't have gone for that, but you can yield the point when they agree to the rest.

tomato coupe
02-10-2018, 03:04 PM
I didn't want to start off with a post titled "Damn, I done something dumb."--But--Every month I get a tool catalogue from Travers, and in it they have these pretty anodised aluminum chuck spacers with built in magnets to hold them to the chuck face. They are supposed to let you chuck up really short pieces in the 3 jaw lathe chuck and grip them "Square and true" to the spindle axis. Well okay--that sounded good to me. They showed 3 different sizes for the low low price of $60 plus shipping. I thought "What a great deal!! I'll order that set"--and I did.---and when it got here, Surprise, surprise--that low low price was for only one of the three they showed--and they sent me the shortest one, 5/8" thick. The jaws on my chuck stick out 1 1/4" from the face of the chuck. Well POOP!!! this damned thing is no good to me and I'm out $60 bucks.

$60 is pretty high for a single spacer. What did Travers say when you phoned them about it? Did they mess up the order or did you misread something? Either way, Travers is pretty good about fixing issues like this ...

On a side note; a set of these things is actually pretty useful. I use my full set all the time in order to get the maximum possible jaw engagement on short pieces of stock.

tomato coupe
02-10-2018, 03:06 PM
Heck, I would have even asked for them to pay for my time for shipping it back.

Has anyone ever taken you up on that offer?

754
02-10-2018, 03:21 PM
I am missing something.
Why not drill and Counterbore the steel for the SHCS. Then transfer and tap into the auminum.
Then mount the three pieces and tack them for welding then take off, finish weld and grind.
Then mount it back on the red thing.

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 04:21 PM
The aluminum s only 1/4" thick,

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 04:24 PM
I never called Travers, because they are in a different country, I may have read their add incorrectly, and dealing across borders it a total pain in the arse. I thought "Oh nuts, I must have missed something in the way their add was shown, I'll fix it sooner or later."

chipmaker4130
02-10-2018, 04:28 PM
Brian, how are you going to get the surfaces flat and parallel?

brian Rupnow
02-10-2018, 04:42 PM
The surface with the magnets in it already is flat. (Once I scrape off the extra j.b. weld.) You will notice that the bars in the new weldment don't extend all the way to the tip of the red arms. I will set this up on my mill table with magnet face down, put a toe clamp on the end of each exposed red arm out beyond the new metal (which is added on the side opposite of the magnets) and use a face-mill to take a cut off the exposed side of the weldment to ensure that it is parallel to the face down side. I might even use the lathe faceplate and do it in the lathe. Not sure yet.

1-800miner
02-10-2018, 11:37 PM
now that you built that one do some more at varying thickness's and have a complete set.
You don't really need that aluminum gadget. just solid steel spider spacers.

thaiguzzi
02-11-2018, 01:29 AM
Never had the need for "chuck spiders", internal spacers etc, once I made the ball bearing tool for my QCTP holders. First saw this idea on one of Doubleboost's You Tube videos. 2 ball brgs better - one for "facing" and one for "turning" - works a treat every time. Brilliant, simple idea, and no lathe should be without one.

754
02-11-2018, 01:50 AM
1/4 ţhick is that like 4 Inch diameter?
5-40 in 1/4 inch sounds like 8 to 10 threads.

BobinOK
02-11-2018, 03:23 AM
If you have access to a 3D printer make a bunch of these..

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:281899

Scale over all to fit your chuck, scale the Z axis to make a few different widths. I printed 4 and can mix match stack to just about whatever I might need. If I need something odd-ball I'll just print the size I need. They work great and stay on the chuck.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2343&d=1518337354

Toolguy
02-11-2018, 09:04 AM
Never had the need for "chuck spiders", internal spacers etc, once I made the ball bearing tool for my QCTP holders. First saw this idea on one of Doubleboost's You Tube videos. 2 ball brgs better - one for "facing" and one for "turning" - works a treat every time. Brilliant, simple idea, and no lathe should be without one.

What does the "ball bearing" tool do? What does it look like?

mygrizzly1022
02-11-2018, 09:15 AM
Hi Tool Guy

Sometimes called a Bump Center

http://www.clickspringprojects.com/bump-lathe-centering-tool.html

dian
02-11-2018, 10:59 AM
you can also forget the whole contraption and just use magnets. deodyme magnets are very close in size, usually within 3/100 mm. out of ten i always find three that are the same. you could hone them as well.

A.K. Boomer
02-11-2018, 11:18 AM
you can also forget the whole contraption and just use magnets. deodyme magnets are very close in size, usually within 3/100 mm. out of ten i always find three that are the same. you could hone them as well.

Aren't you even going to throw in a disclaimer somewhere in there about watching your RPM's?

JoeLee
02-11-2018, 11:22 AM
I've been having the opposite problem from Amazon. Order one Dyson vacuum roller clutch, and got two. Same thing with a computer power supply.

At least you came out ahead on the deal.

JL...................

JoeLee
02-11-2018, 11:26 AM
$60 is pretty high for a single spacer. What did Travers say when you phoned them about it? Did they mess up the order or did you misread something? Either way, Travers is pretty good about fixing issues like this ...

On a side note; a set of these things is actually pretty useful. I use my full set all the time in order to get the maximum possible jaw engagement on short pieces of stock. Not really....... Check out the ones that are made by Royal. Price one of these ......http://www.royalproducts.com/product.cfm?catID=12

JL...........

JoeLee
02-11-2018, 11:33 AM
I have a large new old stock tappet from an old Briggs engine that I mount in the TS of my lathe when I need to chuck up on a real short piece of stock. Pushing the tappet against it before tightening it down ensures the part is sitting square in the chuck. Not the best idea for repetitive set ups but then I would probably go to a collett with a stop.

JL...............

sasquatch
02-11-2018, 12:02 PM
Interesting post Brian.

Robg
02-11-2018, 12:30 PM
I don’t know if I saw this on this site or not but someone suggested using PVC pipe in various diameters with a slit down the side to accommodate diameter variation. You simply face off the pipe in the lathe to your various lengths as needed. Probably get end pieces from somewhere (?) for little cost but even buying the pipe wouldn’t be all that expensive.

brian Rupnow
02-11-2018, 01:05 PM
And here we have it finished. First picture shows the sides with the magnets in it, cleaned up with a file and a large sheet of 220 grit paper laid flat on my bandsaw table. We want this side to remain perfectly flat. Next picture shows it with magnet face down on my mill table, clamped at the tip of each arm. Then I took 12 cuts .005" deep to remove 0.060" of material from the face of the 1/4" x 1/2" bars. This new surface will be "dead nuts" parallel to the other side. After sanding away excess J B Weld (and quite a bit of the red anodising) I end up with a part that, while not quite as pretty at least is functional. The last picture shows it mounted in my lathe chuck, with a 3/16" thick disc mounted in the jaws.
Robg--this was never about varying diameters. It was about being able to mount very thin round pieces in the chuck and having something to "register" them against so they didn't end up canted on an angle when the jaws were tightened.
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3065/7n7dp9.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8324/AOCs1B.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9501/yK7yw3.jpg

RB211
02-11-2018, 01:39 PM
So, testing it, facing both sides of a disk, do they come out perfectly parallel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

demerrill
02-11-2018, 02:16 PM
Another easy alternative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3x8H1Xb-jg

David Merrill

754
02-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Another easy way to get it close, I hold it against my drill Chuck or tailstock spindle with one finger.
Then tighten with other hand and check with DTI.

Mcgyver
02-11-2018, 03:02 PM
Never had the need for "chuck spiders", internal spacers etc, once I made the ball bearing tool for my QCTP holders. First saw this idea on one of Doubleboost's You Tube videos. 2 ball brgs better - one for "facing" and one for "turning" - works a treat every time. Brilliant, simple idea, and no lathe should be without one.

I see it as a different function. Spacers get the back parallel the chuck, the bump tool gets the front parallel. Often the outward face is not flat, ie. something off the bandsaw so you still need spacers - chuck it, face and reverse against a space for the second face.

Spacers are easily to make as needed - three pieces of 1/4 or 1/8 steel welding to hub and the ground parallel, hub dia and bore to suit. After making three or four they seem to cover the range and needed a different one in years

brian Rupnow
02-11-2018, 03:32 PM
So, testing it, facing both sides of a disk, do they come out perfectly parallel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I just tested it to answer your question. Using my dedicated dial gauge set up, and taking readings on the front of the 3 different arms as I turned the chuck by hand (holding the tip of the dial gauge back out of the way so it didn't contact the chuck jaws), all three readings were within 0.001". that certainly is close enough for anything I'll make.

JoeLee
02-11-2018, 04:22 PM
Another easy way to get it close, I hold it against my drill Chuck or tailstock spindle with one finger.
Then tighten with other hand and check with DTI. That's what my tappet does. If you have a big enough drill chuck the face will work.

JL...............

JoeLee
02-11-2018, 04:25 PM
And here we have it finished. First picture shows the sides with the magnets in it, cleaned up with a file and a large sheet of 220 grit paper laid flat on my bandsaw table. We want this side to remain perfectly flat. Next picture shows it with magnet face down on my mill table, clamped at the tip of each arm. Then I took 12 cuts .005" deep to remove 0.060" of material from the face of the 1/4" x 1/2" bars. This new surface will be "dead nuts" parallel to the other side. After sanding away excess J B Weld (and quite a bit of the red anodising) I end up with a part that, while not quite as pretty at least is functional. The last picture shows it mounted in my lathe chuck, with a 3/16" thick disc mounted in the jaws.
Robg--this was never about varying diameters. It was about being able to mount very thin round pieces in the chuck and having something to "register" them against so they didn't end up canted on an angle when the jaws were tightened.
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3065/7n7dp9.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8324/AOCs1B.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9501/yK7yw3.jpg That's a good fix, but I think what I would have done is screwed the spacers to the spider, then if you had to remove them for some reason you could, and you would never have to worry about them flying off. I would probably have made a couple different ones.
Now I just gave myself an idea for another project.

JL................

brian Rupnow
02-11-2018, 04:35 PM
I'm not worried about them flying off. The new weldment is tapped in 3 places for #5-40 shcs. The heads and shanks of these capscrews are embedded in J.B. weld in the cavities that were pre-formed in the red anodized component.

754
02-11-2018, 04:35 PM
Exactly, then you can remove it or make others that bolt on.

RB211
02-12-2018, 03:05 PM
I just tested it to answer your question. Using my dedicated dial gauge set up, and taking readings on the front of the 3 different arms as I turned the chuck by hand (holding the tip of the dial gauge back out of the way so it didn't contact the chuck jaws), all three readings were within 0.001". that certainly is close enough for anything I'll make.

Good deal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

tomato coupe
02-12-2018, 09:11 PM
Not really....... Check out the ones that are made by Royal. Price one of these ......http://www.royalproducts.com/product.cfm?catID=12

JL...........

I meant $60 was a bit high for the brand of spacer he bought.

My first thought about the Royal spacers was "Who would be crazy enough to plunk down more than $500 for chuck spacers?" Then I realized they looked pretty familiar and, sure enough, I have a full set in my drawer. They must have been a lot cheaper a few years ago...