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PT Doc
04-20-2018, 02:43 PM
Are grease zerks on full size knee mills a standard size? In question is a Taiwanese that is not on site. Want to buy grease guns ahead of time and would like to get it right the first time. GIRTFT.

Seems like Mobilgrease XHP 221 and Mobilgrease XHP 222 are being recommended based on specs in manual and cross referencing to new item number based on discontinued Mobilith AW1 and Mobilith AW2. This is per Mobil Industrial Lubricant Division.

Thanks

danlb
04-20-2018, 03:08 PM
I don't know that there is a standard for anything that the machine manufacturers do. Even the electronics range from 12V to 480V. Of course, given only "Taiwanese" as the description is rather useless. Your best bet is to read the manual and look at the parts list. It will have pictures of the zerks in question.

Seems we have had a lot of first timers asking nebulous questions like this in the last month. What brought you to our forum instead of contacting the manufacturer or importer or seller?

Dan

sarge41
04-20-2018, 03:09 PM
Doc: I would bet a dollar to a donut that the fittings are intended for way oil. Many mills used to be fitted with zerk fittings, but intended for way oil, including Bridgeport. You are going to ask how to use them. Most people convert a grease gun to oil usage, or purchase such a gun. I do not know the exact procedure to convert a grease gun to oil, but the info is on the web somewhere. Please do NOT use grease until making sure.

Sarge41

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 03:42 PM
I don't know that there is a standard for anything that the machine manufacturers do. Even the electronics range from 12V to 480V. Of course, given only "Taiwanese" as the description is rather useless. Your best bet is to read the manual and look at the parts list. It will have pictures of the zerks in question.

Seems we have had a lot of first timers asking nebulous questions like this in the last month. What brought you to our forum instead of contacting the manufacturer or importer or seller?
Dan

Nothing in the manual nor from tech support. If you are interested see page 20:

http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/690182_man_EN.pdf

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 03:49 PM
Doc: I would bet a dollar to a donut that the fittings are intended for way oil. Many mills used to be fitted with zerk fittings, but intended for way oil, including Bridgeport. You are going to ask how to use them. Most people convert a grease gun to oil usage, or purchase such a gun. I do not know the exact procedure to convert a grease gun to oil, but the info is on the web somewhere. Please do NOT use grease until making sure.

Sarge41

See manual page 20:

http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/690182_man_EN.pdf

Lubrication per manual

Spindle bearing cup oil: Mobil DTE oil light

One shot lube: Mobil Vactra oil 2

Knee lead screw grease nipple: Mobilith AW2(this has been replaced with Mobilgrease XHP222)

Back gear grease nipple: Mobilith AW1 (this has been replaced with Mobilgrease XHP221)

Ball oilers for gearbox: Mobilith AW1 (this has been replaced with Mobilgrease XHP221 but Jet says Mobilith SHC100 can be used)

Mcgyver
04-20-2018, 03:50 PM
If they feed the ways, use oil not grease.

My theory is someone once upon a time put them on a mill so the newbie would have to take the mill apart to clean it after mistakenly greasing it. Far more malicious than sending them to stores for a bucket of steam

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 03:57 PM
Precision Matthews has similar recommendations for the PM949 mill

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/PM-935-Series-Web-6-24-2017.pdf

Page 18

Richard P Wilson
04-20-2018, 05:25 PM
They don't feed the ways, the one shot deals with that. Thing I'm curious about is the instruction to put grease into the ball oilers on the gearbox. How do you insert grease into a ball oiler?

RB211
04-20-2018, 06:16 PM
My old Bridgeport has zerks for way oil. I modified a grease gun to hold way oil. I spent many hours cleaning my mill of hardened grease in all the passages.


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duckman
04-20-2018, 06:55 PM
I actually had to repair a BRPT table feed screw, they had pumped so much grease in they froze the table and broke the screw that holds the feed screw nut in the dog bone, must have dug 20#s of grease out of every nook and cranny in the top of the cross slide. But I got paid by the hour portal to portal.

macona
04-20-2018, 07:32 PM
They don't feed the ways, the one shot deals with that. Thing I'm curious about is the instruction to put grease into the ball oilers on the gearbox. How do you insert grease into a ball oiler?

They make a cone tip attachment for a grease gun that shoots grease into ball type fittings.

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 07:42 PM
Tom Lipton seems to be in agreement with the links to the manuals I posted.

https://youtu.be/GxjEvIlnbBM

I guess the issue can that the correct grease was not used in the cases where someone has to remove the hard grease. I guess unless you are the original owner you never know what has been used.

Mcgyver
04-20-2018, 08:54 PM
Tom Lipton seems to be in agreement with the links to the manuals I posted.

https://youtu.be/GxjEvIlnbBM

I guess the issue can that the correct grease was not used in the cases where someone has to remove the hard grease. I guess unless you are the original owner you never know what has been used.

If Tom Lipton is suggestion lubricating the ways with grease, Tom Lipton is wrong. You have to be careful to differentiate between lubing the ways and lubing other parts. Many mills have zerks for pumping oil in to lub the ways - the references to digging grease out, is digging it out of the ways that are meant to be oiled. Another poster says your mill has a one shot oiler, if that's the case its moot; you don't have zerks to oil the ways so can't pump them full of grease.

Its common theme though, newbie gets and mill a sees the zerks all over it (meant for oil) and fills his machine ways up with grease. Can happen to the best of us :rolleyes:

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 09:01 PM
If Tom Lipton is suggestion lubricating the ways with grease, Tom Lipton is wrong. You have to be careful to differentiate between lubing the ways and lubing other parts. Many mills have zerks for pumping oil in to lub the ways - the references to digging grease out, is digging it out of the ways that are meant to be oiled. Another poster says your mill has a one shot oiler, if that's the case its moot; you don't have zerks to oil the ways so can't pump them full of grease.

Its common theme though, newbie gets and mill a sees the zerks all over it (meant for oil) and fills his machine ways up with grease. Can happen to the best of us :rolleyes:

I think it’s pretty standard for new production full size mills to have a one shot lube system. The ways get the vactra oil through this system. The zerks get the manufacture specified grease. Weird that suddenly there are ball oilers that need a special tip though. Trying to figure out from online photos what tip would get grease into a ball Oiler is total guess work.

Top Lipton’s Taiwanese Acra mill has a 1 shot lube system and zerks like the Precision Mathews and like the Jet Tools. They are like made in the same production facility since the heads look alike. I said that Tom was in agreement with manufacturer recommendations and not that he was greasing the ways. What types of mills have zerks that feed the way oil to the ways?

Thanks for the help.

Edwin Dirnbeck
04-20-2018, 09:28 PM
WHY CANT WE EVER IDENTIFY THE IDIOT ENGINEER ?
I mean the name of the actual human being that did this. I have seen many bridgtports and other mills over the years that have zerk fittings of the ways. I have never seen any kind of pressure oiler gun in any shop in my 60 year job shop journey. Surely some of the older members must have worked in machine tool factories,let him be exposed .Edwin Dirnbeck

1-800miner
04-20-2018, 09:48 PM
WHY CANT WE EVER IDENTIFY THE IDIOT ENGINEER ?
I mean the name of the actual human being that did this. I have seen many bridgtports and other mills over the years that have zerk fittings of the ways. I have never seen any kind of pressure oiler gun in any shop in my 60 year job shop journey. Surely some of the older members must have worked in machine tool factories,let him be exposed .Edwin Dirnbeck

It was Sir John. He is laughing at us all and our wet noodle Bridgeys.

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 10:02 PM
WHY CANT WE EVER IDENTIFY THE IDIOT ENGINEER ?
I mean the name of the actual human being that did this. I have seen many bridgtports and other mills over the years that have zerk fittings of the ways. I have never seen any kind of pressure oiler gun in any shop in my 60 year job shop journey. Surely some of the older members must have worked in machine tool factories,let him be exposed .Edwin Dirnbeck

:) .

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 10:03 PM
They make a cone tip attachment for a grease gun that shoots grease into ball type fittings.

Any links to these come tips? Searched on Zoro and have not found it.

Mcgyver
04-20-2018, 10:06 PM
I said that Tom was in agreement with manufacturer recommendations and not that he was greasing the ways. What types of mills have zerks that feed the way oil to the ways?

Thanks for the help.

you comment that maybe digging out the hardened grease was because the right grease wasn't used made me think there was confusion because the poster had talked about that in the context ways. Doesn't matter, we're on the same page.

Afaik except the new offshore mills, pretty much every mill I've seen has zerks or some form of fitting for injecting oil into the way bearing surfaces. Not like I've surveyed every mill in North America, but it was/is far more common to find that than plumbed one shot oil lines on Canadian, British, American mills. One shot, while absolutely the way go, seems like a it was only an after-market thing and a more recent thing. The exception would be my bridgeport cnc mill, it had what looks like a factory automatic oiler.

ymmv, its just an observation from my experience

PT Doc
04-20-2018, 10:27 PM
you comment that maybe digging out the hardened grease was because the right grease wasn't used made me think there was confusion because the poster had talked about that in the context ways. Doesn't matter, we're on the same page.

Afaik except the new offshore mills, pretty much every mill I've seen has zerks or some form of fitting for injecting oil into the way bearing surfaces. Not like I've surveyed every mill in North America, but it was/is far more common to find that than plumbed one shot oil lines on Canadian, British, American mills. One shot, while absolutely the way go, seems like a it was only an after-market thing and a more recent thing. The exception would be my bridgeport cnc mill, it had what looks like a factory automatic oiler.

ymmv, its just an observation from my experience

I have not seen any new knee mills without a one shot lube system. Seems like this will solve the grease in the ways, even though it is called way oil and not way grease.

LKeithR
04-21-2018, 04:40 AM
...One shot, while absolutely the way go, seems like a it was only an after-market thing and a more recent thing...

We bought a Taiwanese made First LC-18 back in the mid 80s. It came with a factory installed one-shot oiling system for all the
ways and "one" grease zerk on the head. All the other lubrication points on the head were the little oil cups with the flip up lid.

We now have a much newer LC-18 and its lubrication system is identical to the older one...

PT Doc
04-21-2018, 10:53 AM
We bought a Taiwanese made First LC-18 back in the mid 80s. It came with a factory installed one-shot oiling system for all the
ways and "one" grease zerk on the head. All the other lubrication points on the head were the little oil cups with the flip up lid.

We now have a much newer LC-18 and its lubrication system is identical to the older one...

Do you use this mill regularly yourself! Are you happy with it overall especially to runout? Thanks

softtail
04-21-2018, 10:54 AM
Any links to these come tips? Searched on Zoro and have not found it.

http://www.toolpan.com/Lincoln-Tool-5803--Grease-Needle-Nozzle-_p_2738.html

PT Doc
04-21-2018, 01:10 PM
http://www.toolpan.com/Lincoln-Tool-5803--Grease-Needle-Nozzle-_p_2738.html

Thanks. Saw that and didn’t think the fine tip would work with the ball oiler.

softtail
04-21-2018, 01:49 PM
Thanks. Saw that and didn’t think the fine tip would work with the ball oiler.

I use Dualco pump cans.. they for sure work.

metalmagpie
04-21-2018, 09:57 PM
The link to the original article on modifying a grease gun is old. I dug up one from the archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20050206090309/http://www.metalwebnews.com:80/howto/oilgun/gunconvert.html

I have modified several grease guns in this manner. It works, and works well.

metalmagpie

Mark Rand
04-22-2018, 05:51 AM
Don't need to modify a grease gun. Just get an oil gun made for the job (http://www.abnox.com/en/990/Mineral-Oil.htm?Subcategory=StosspressenMineraloel&Segment=28380).