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Seastar
05-16-2018, 08:46 AM
I neede to glue/fasten a piece of 1 1/4" thick quartz (similar to granite) counter top material to a concrete wall to make a base for a life sized bronze statue.
It will be outdoors so it needs to be weatherproof.
I also need long life and high strength.
I don't think I can bolt it down because the top surface needs to be smooth and I don't want stress riser holes in the quartz
Question is, what sort of adhesive will work the best?
Bill

Magicniner
05-16-2018, 09:08 AM
Sikaflex polyurethane adhesive sealant would be my choice.

J Tiers
05-16-2018, 09:28 AM
Pretty much any adhesive will fail eventually outside, whether because it actually fails, or because water penetrates one of the surfaces and deteriorates the material it is bonded to (concrete, in this case).

Why does it need to be glued to the wall? If the piece sits on the ground for support, and is just being sealed to the wall (I assume that is what you mean), that's one thing. If you are trying to hold it up off the ground with adhesive, I'd forget about it, it's not a good use.

LKeithR
05-16-2018, 09:59 AM
...If you are trying to hold it up off the ground with adhesive, I'd forget about it, it's not a good use...

If the piece you want to attach to the wall is the base how are you attaching the statue itself to the base? How much does the entire
assembly weigh? If you really are trying to hang the piece off a wall you're going to need some sort of mechanical connection...

SGW
05-16-2018, 10:52 AM
Loctite sells some epoxy for wet conditions. That might work.

Mr Fixit
05-16-2018, 11:40 AM
Hey Bill,

Try drilling mounting holes that align with the bronze mounting locations. Maybe make a double ended bolt, even a wood screw to machine screw to mount the bronze work, then all is still concealed. This way you have machining and art in the same project.

TX

Mr fixit for the family
Chris :)

Duffy
05-16-2018, 03:45 PM
I would suggest sodium silicate, (water glass,) from your local lapidary supply. After it sets up, run a bead of silicone caulking around the edge of the slab to prevent any moisture getting in at the edges.

gambler
05-16-2018, 03:56 PM
whatever you decide, I would ask on the forum before buying anything, from the looks of this threadhttp://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/76410-Keeping-Silicone-From-Hardening-At-The-End-Of-The-Tubethese guys have plenty of options stored up.:D

JoeLee
05-16-2018, 10:59 PM
I always keep a tube of this stuff around in clear and black. It's 10 times stronger than regular silicone.

http://eclecticproducts.com/products/e6000.html

JL.............

chipmaker4130
05-17-2018, 12:27 AM
I always keep a tube of this stuff around in clear and black. It's 10 times stronger than regular silicone.

http://eclecticproducts.com/products/e6000.html

JL.............

I've used e6000 extensively. Biggest problem with it is that it 'creeps' when hot if there is the slightest side-load. Doesn't have to be real hot either.

BCRider
05-17-2018, 02:10 AM
1 1/4 thick quartz to hold up a "life size" statue on what sure sounds like an unsupported "shelf".......

This is still not enough information. How big is your 1 1/4" thick shelf going to be? How heavy is the life size statue? Is it a full size human shape or is it an honored family favorite pet hamster?

Assuming it is something far larger than a hamster in bronze I'd say that I would not trust any sort of glue by itself. At the very least I'd pin into the concrete wall and extend those large steel pins out into the quartz shelf. Even if you find a glue which is compatible with the concrete and the quartz 1 1/4" isn't a lot of "base" and the tensile load along the top of the quartz shelf will be extremely high. Possibly high enough to spall out the concrete of the wall you want to glue the shelf onto and see it all in the ground. Concrete is great for compression. But not so great for tensile loads. Thus why they fill it with re-bar.

In any event I'd suggest we need more information. The glue itself isn't the issue. Clearly the others have lots of options for things that stick well to concrete and quartz. But the issue is if the concrete or quartz themselves can withstand the load. You may need to include some quartz or other material shelf brackets.

Seastar
05-17-2018, 07:46 AM
1 1/4 thick quartz to hold up a "life size" statue on what sure sounds like an unsupported "shelf".......

This is still not enough information. How big is your 1 1/4" thick shelf going to be? How heavy is the life size statue? Is it a full size human shape or is it an honored family favorite pet hamster?

Assuming it is something far larger than a hamster in bronze I'd say that I would not trust any sort of glue by itself. At the very least I'd pin into the concrete wall and extend those large steel pins out into the quartz shelf. Even if you find a glue which is compatible with the concrete and the quartz 1 1/4" isn't a lot of "base" and the tensile load along the top of the quartz shelf will be extremely high. Possibly high enough to spall out the concrete of the wall you want to glue the shelf onto and see it all in the ground. Concrete is great for compression. But not so great for tensile loads. Thus why they fill it with re-bar.

In any event I'd suggest we need more information. The glue itself isn't the issue. Clearly the others have lots of options for things that stick well to concrete and quartz. But the issue is if the concrete or quartz themselves can withstand the load. You may need to include some quartz or other material shelf brackets.
Sorry I did not provide more information.
The place where the statue and slab of Quartz will mount is on top of the junction of two 8" reinforced concrete walls where they join at 90 degrees. The Quartz slab is an equallateral triangle with legs of 32". The bronze statue is a seated figure with the legs over the edge of the Quartz slabs hypotenuse. There will be an additional vertical support slab placed vertically under the hypotenuse from the concrete deck that is adjacent to and part of the walls.
The statue is of course hollow and weighs 350 pounds. I am told the Quartz will weigh about 130 pounds. The statue has provision for two 1/2" bolts to fasten it to the Quartz slab.
I was trying to avoid having mechanical fasteners in the slab to wall junction because they would be visible.
I chose Quartz because my supplier told me it was stronger than granite and because it is available in white to match the painted white concrete wall.
The 500# total weight will place the concrete walls and deck in compression.
Questions?
Bill

Seastar
05-17-2018, 08:29 AM
here is a picture of the statue.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/vV0a3z.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/povV0a3zj)
Bill

Seastar
05-17-2018, 08:35 AM
and the corner of the wall-----
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/HCs2LD.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnHCs2LDj)
Bill

1-800miner
05-17-2018, 09:47 AM
Consider a metal triangle with lips bolted to the walls. Slightly smaller than the stone triangle so it won't show.
Glue the stone triangle on top of the metal. The glue is supporting down pressure rather than shear pressure.
Bolt the statue through the rock and the metal. Should set a rubbery cushion /gasket between statue and stone or the stone may crack if the statue is bumped.
Assuming the wall is poured concrete, concrete anchor bolts through the lips into the wall.
Unless you are laying down you should not be able to see the anchors.
Can the back of the statue touch the wall? That will help support it as well. Assuming her foot is on the floor and bearing some weight.

softtail
05-17-2018, 11:06 AM
Sika. Better get that paint off the concrete first though.

BCRider
05-17-2018, 11:43 AM
Seastar, that description is very clear now.

The vertical slab under the hypotenuse is now clearly going to take the majority of the load. Add to that I would request from the stone cutting guy that supplies the quartz that he also includes a same height stone "post" to put inside the seat at the apex. Thus the seat is now fully supported in all respects and the glue or goop you use is only needed to hold the seat from coming out of the wall. That is if it's not sitting on top of or into the groove I see in the picture. If it sits into the groove, which would be very nice, then the wall will already be holding the sides up and the glue will do just fine.

The point is that if it were me I would want the stone and statue supported directly by stone or wall directly down to the deck before any glue or goop is used. You're now clearly OK on the hypotenuse and so you just need to arrange for the sides of the right angle to be similarly supported down to the deck directly either from the wall itself or from a leg hidden inside. That way the glue will not have any structural shear load on it. Just the minor job of preventing the seat from coming away from the wall and sealing out the weather.

That's quite the home and quite the view! And that statue is going to be a great addition to break up the highly geometrical lines of the deck and rail.

Magicniner
05-17-2018, 12:55 PM
Sikaflex includes in it's recommended applications the fixing and sealing of roof tiles, flashing and gutters.
:D

flylo
05-17-2018, 01:23 PM
http://www.sashco.com/products/through-the-roof/

Best stuff I ever sold or used & will stick anything to anything & will last.

danlb
05-17-2018, 01:45 PM
That's a beautiful setting Seastar. Lucky guy! **

Dan
** Lucky or hard working. :)

Seastar
05-17-2018, 02:08 PM
That's a beautiful setting Seastar. Lucky guy! **

Dan
** Lucky or hard working. :)
60 years of hard work and a tiny bit of luck!
You should see the rest of the house!
I designed it, for the most part.
Thanks for the complement.
Bill

BCRider
05-17-2018, 02:16 PM
If the inside corner isn't sitting on the top or into that groove then the angle stock bolted into the wall as mentioned earlier would be another great option to take the weight of the inside corner of the seat. Anything just so the sealant/glue isn't supporting the actual load. It's great as a fixturing glue but you don't want the glue actually supporting the structural loads in either shear or tension. Compression is fine though.

Seastar
05-17-2018, 02:18 PM
Seastar, that description is very clear now.

The vertical slab under the hypotenuse is now clearly going to take the majority of the load. Add to that I would request from the stone cutting guy that supplies the quartz that he also includes a same height stone "post" to put inside the seat at the apex. Thus the seat is now fully supported in all respects and the glue or goop you use is only needed to hold the seat from coming out of the wall. That is if it's not sitting on top of or into the groove I see in the picture. If it sits into the groove, which would be very nice, then the wall will already be holding the sides up and the glue will do just fine.

The point is that if it were me I would want the stone and statue supported directly by stone or wall directly down to the deck before any glue or goop is used. You're now clearly OK on the hypotenuse and so you just need to arrange for the sides of the right angle to be similarly supported down to the deck directly either from the wall itself or from a leg hidden inside. That way the glue will not have any structural shear load on it. Just the minor job of preventing the seat from coming away from the wall and sealing out the weather.

That's quite the home and quite the view! And that statue is going to be a great addition to break up the highly geometrical lines of the deck and rail.
Good ideas.
I think I will fabricate a stainless steel "brace" to fit behind the vertical panel and bear the weight.
I can make it have wide contact on the guartz slab.
I had thought about mounting the statue on a slab of cor-ten steel but am afraid that material will stain the deck and walls as it weathers.
I also thought about bronze until I priced it. WOW!
Large pieces of stainless are also expensive.
Bill

BCRider
05-17-2018, 02:43 PM
Good ideas.
I think I will fabricate a stainless steel "brace" to fit behind the vertical panel and bear the weight.
I can make it have wide contact on the guartz slab.
I had thought about mounting the statue on a slab of cor-ten steel but am afraid that material will stain the deck and walls as it weathers.
I also thought about bronze until I priced it. WOW!
Large pieces of stainless are also expensive.
Bill

That's a great option too. Anything so the weight is directly down through the shelf to the deck pavers is good.

And yeah, assuming that's the ocean you really don't want any metal out there. Salt spray and all that. Makes even the best stainless steels at most stain resistant,eh? :)

I wasn't sure if this was your place or someone you were doing the mount for the statue for as a job. Since I know it's yours now congrats on making it. May you enjoy that great looking home, deck and pool for many years to come.

darryl
05-17-2018, 07:32 PM
It would appear that whatever compound you use between the quartz and the walls will be in compression. It's not clear whether the compression will be highest at the front corners, or whether the back corner will be under compression as well or not under any compression. Put another way, the slab may tend to tilt forwards if that's how the weight balance goes. In any event it looks like a 3 point mount, so I would be tempted to provide a hard rubber 'puck' at each corner, and still use the E6000- or any of the similar compounds like shoe goo, goop, etc, as a filler and sealant. The pucks could be made from an actual hockey puck, sawn to a suitable thickness, size and shape. These will allow a uniform gap to exist between the quartz and the walls- enough to prevent any contact which would introduce high point-contact forces. The E6000 prevents the slab from moving around and keeps a seal around the perimeter. I don't think you need it on the inside so much-

As far as adding strength with a piece of stainless steel, the slab is going to be more rigid than the steel, so it's almost pointless- unless you feel better about having something there to take the weight if the slab cracks. In my opinion, adding the steel is just adding a future problem. It would be better to double the thickness of the slab instead. I would be highly tempted to sandwich two layers using epoxy and some fiberglass roving between them.

no704
05-17-2018, 09:56 PM
Check out 3M windshield urathane and primer. It’s been a while since I was in that bus but as I recall it will take somewhere in the neighborhood of #2000 of tensile pull / sqin once fully cured. I’ve used the stuff to rebuild engine mounts with great success.

Paul Alciatore
05-17-2018, 10:02 PM
I think a two substance approach may be the best. An adhesive to hold it in place and some kind of grout around the edges to keep the water out. Epoxy for the adhesive and a good silicone sealer may be good for the latter.

But talk to a stone company. I will bet they have just the thing.