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Horst
10-25-2018, 12:09 PM
Liquidating some unwanted and valuable vintage watch parts in order to pay for the incredibly expensive servicing of my chronograph has prompted me to finally look into online selling. I have a lot of surplus machinists tools as well but with no particular "need" I have put this (unpleasant for me) task off. That plus my dislike of ebay and PayPal. They are ok for buying but, from what I hear, leave something to be desired for selling, like the 10% vig.

Has anyone here any experience using alternatives (other than Chraig's List)?

3 Phase Lightbulb
10-25-2018, 12:22 PM
I wouldn't worry about whatever the seller fee(s) are. Selling something on eBay puts your item(s) in front of the most people so you have a much better chance of selling it and usually for whatever the actual market value is which depends on how many people are interested in buying it and what they are willing so spend. I suggest selling on eBay in an auction format with a relatively low starting bid and the longest duration for maximum exposure.

I'd be more concerned about the actual buyer's integrity than eBay or PayPal.

Bob La Londe
10-25-2018, 12:33 PM
I sell on Ebay. I take the hit when I do. Its the second largest on-line reseller entity behind Amazon. I haven't looked into Amazon, but I guess I should. A buddy of mine manufacturers kits to put a cheap diamond blade on grinders (various types of grinders), and another tool that holds tungsten at the proper angle on a grinder for easy proper grinding angles. He sells the heck out of them on Ebay. Its his side business and rapidly becoming his primary business. He makes the sale, expenses all the fees, and makes some more. Fees, taxes, materials, tools, and labor. Its all part of the cost of doing business.

Sure Craigslist some stuff, and post it on local Facebook sales exchanges too. You might get cash for asking price, but don't write off Ebay just because you have to pay a fee to use the service they spent millions and millions of dollars creating and maintaining. Its a valuable selling tool. If their service didn't have value you wouldn't be interested in using it anyway.

JRouche
10-25-2018, 12:43 PM
Liquidating some unwanted and valuable vintage watch parts in order to pay for the incredibly expensive servicing of my chronograph has prompted me to finally look into online selling. I have a lot of surplus machinists tools as well but with no particular "need" I have put this (unpleasant for me) task off. That plus my dislike of ebay and PayPal. They are ok for buying but, from what I hear, leave something to be desired for selling, like the 10% vig.

Has anyone here any experience using alternatives (other than Chraig's List)?

CNCzone has a classifieds section as does practical machinist (i think). JR

polaraligned
10-25-2018, 01:04 PM
I always get a premium price on E-bay and it is well worth the 12.9% that you pay. That is the cost of selling to the largest market.
Craigslist is horrid. Everyone wants to offer you 10 cents on the dollar or they never show up.

softtail
10-25-2018, 01:20 PM
Ebay. Fees are part of doing business... price accordingly.

But, it's been a very very long time since I was a new seller.. being established, it's quite painless. I suspect it is now more of a pita to get started than it once was.

Dan_the_Chemist
10-25-2018, 01:41 PM
I've done reasonably well with Craigslist, but I have to admit there is a lot of pucker factor when a guy tells me to meet him outside the unmarked building in the industrial part of town and to bring a large amount of cash...

I bought an expensive camera lens through Craigslist... The guy was okay with meeting in the lobby of the sheriff's department. That gave me some confidence. Turns out the whole deal went well.

johnd
10-25-2018, 02:22 PM
I've been selling on eBay for 15+ years. You likely have stuff that will do best on eBay and if you listed on Craig's you would mostly get low ball offers from people who intend to sell it on eBay. I still run a few auctions for unusual things, where value is unknown, but have largely gone to fixed price 30 day listings, many with free shipping. I search the "sold" listings and if there are several similar items I price mine about the same. Sometimes relist several times and lower price, or take offers, after a while. Auctions of common items don't attract much attention and sometimes get no bids or maybe just a snipe bid or 2 at the very end.

RB211
10-26-2018, 08:30 AM
12.9% ??? No thank you!
The Ferengi in me wants to declare war.
As for servicing your chronograph, why not use the time from a gps? Far more precise.

Mcgyver
10-26-2018, 09:13 AM
I look at it like what business would grouch at having a leading global marketing and sales turnkey option for for 10% (or is it 12.9 today?). For something like watch parts (what vintage!) that is imo what you need, maximum reach.

For common machinist items I can usually out do ebay with local classified sales, mostly kijiji. The logic is buyers will pay a premium to inspect vs taking the risk of buying sight unseen and there is no shipping (even though they still have the inconvenience of getting to my place, they don't seem to consider that). I ebay for things that are more specialized, I believe with those I get more $$, but its certainly faster. Offset is the hassle of shipping and ebay risk (vs cash and carry)

kijiji hasn't taken off in the states, which, despite its flaws, is a lot better craiglist. I don't like craiglist as a seller (and its a ghost town here) because you can't delete an ad. Stupid. Your ad expires and you renew and now there are two entries, expires again and there are 3. If you are trying to sell any volume of stuff this quickly makes the account difficult to manage, vs the usual way where you see your active listings and when sold they're removed from the list and when renewed they don't create a another listing. Its such a basic flaw, it seem incredible they built it that.

All classified transactions I've been involved in, and its been a fair bit, are done at someone's house. Maybe if you were transacting in different sorts of items it might be riskier, but why wouldn't I have someone over to the house for a 0-1" mic? Whats he going to do, conk me over the head and run away with it? No seller, me or the other guys, wants to waste time driving to meet a buyer who may or may not take the item. I also don't have a problem with flakes, well not usually. No shows have gone to about zero since I started simply asking for a phone number and a set time before giving out the address.

Anyway, to the OP's problem, imo ebay is the best solution. Few watchmaking forums allow for sale postings and as good as PM is for selling, its not the place for watch parts lol

SteveF
10-26-2018, 09:15 AM
I wouldn't worry about whatever the seller fee(s) are. Selling something on eBay puts your item(s) in front of the most people so you have a much better chance of selling it and usually for whatever the actual market value is which depends on how many people are interested in buying it and what they are willing so spend. I suggest selling on eBay in an auction format with a relatively low starting bid and the longest duration for maximum exposure.
.

I've been buying and selling on eBay for about 20 years, mostly buying.

Very much agree that your exposure on eBay will get you a higher price than on Craigslist and offset the selling fees. Plus you don't have to deal with the dishonest people that seem to be common on Craigslist nowadays. I use CL only for items that are too big or too much hassle to ship.

Very much disagree with a "relatively low starting bid". I always list at the price that will make me happy and if I only get ONE bid, all is good. You list as a low price and only one person bids you are contractually obligated by eBay to complete the sale, even if you are really mad that no one else bid to drive the price up and you feel like you are giving it away.

Steve

ken
10-26-2018, 10:25 AM
I have hauled things to swap meets and put them on Craigslist. case in point big block ford aluminum Marine exhaust manifolds swap meet c/l price $200 2 years not one taker or call one time on ebay at $450 sold. one of my frist ebay sales
Next a giant 1000MM camera lens I picked up at a flea market for almost nothing put it on c/l and some other places not a call put it on ebay I had to relist it a few times but it sold to a animal photographer in Brazil but shipped to his studio in New York City sold $550
next a 10ee steady rest I got off ebay for 75.+ shipping cleaned it up put on PM no takers backup on ebay sold in 2 days sold 475.
So between paypal and ebay I gave up about 15 percent so what I may still have this stuff in the case of the ford manifolds I would have got 50 cents a pound for them. Ken https://www.ebay.com/itm/253932727532?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

metalmagpie
10-26-2018, 10:42 AM
[QUOTE=Mcgyver;1201014I don't like craiglist as a seller (and its a ghost town here in Toronto) because you can't delete an ad. Stupid. Your ad expires and you renew and now there are two entries, expires again and there are 3. If you are trying to sell any volume of stuff this quickly makes the account difficult to manage, vs the usual way where you see your active listings and when sold they're removed from the list and when renewed they don't create a another listing. Its such a basic flaw, it seem incredible they built it that.[/QUOTE]

I delete listings from CL all the time. And when I renew an item it never replicates in any way. You and I to my knowledge are both sensible savvy people. Are we talking about the same craigslist software?

metalmagpie

metalmagpie
10-26-2018, 10:52 AM
Plus you don't have to deal with the dishonest people that seem to be common on Craigslist nowadays.

I sell on CL all the time, pretty much continuously over the last few years. Yes, there are a few no-shows. And negotiating is common. Why not? If someone wants $250 what do I have to lose in offering him $150? I might say I've seen those cheaper when I hadn't - does that put me into your 'dishonest people' category? I just think of it as a negotiating ploy.

I recently bought a machine torch from ebay. It was advertised as being made by Airco, in good working condition but didn't have good pictures. I wrote and specifically asked if it had the rack on the side. He wrote back and said yes. I bought it. Ouch. No rack. Funky valves. And - the kicker - not even Airco. How's that for honesty? What really put the cherry on top was when I protested and Paypal ruled in favor of the seller.

Even after all that, I don't really think of the seller as being dishonest. Probably more mindless than malicious.

I'd like to hear some examples of craigslist dishonesty. If they say their Gibson guitar is perfect and you get there and it has a cracked neck, you can just walk away unlike ebay where you have to pay to find out.

metalmagpie

3 Phase Lightbulb
10-26-2018, 11:11 AM
Very much disagree with a "relatively low starting bid". I always list at the price that will make me happy and if I only get ONE bid, all is good. You list as a low price and only one person bids you are contractually obligated by eBay to complete the sale, even if you are really mad that no one else bid to drive the price up and you feel like you are giving it away.

Steve

rel·a·tive·ly
adverb
in relation, comparison, or proportion to something else.

Mcgyver
10-26-2018, 11:23 AM
I delete listings from CL all the time. And when I renew an item it never replicates in any way. You and I to my knowledge are both sensible savvy people. Are we talking about the same craigslist software?

metalmagpie

You can delete them in the sense they no longer appear to buyers. Here is specifically the issue - when you renew a posting, it doesn't flip a status switch on the posting, in creates a new entry. You've got 25 things listed and you just renewed them all. Now in inactive you've still got those 25 expired listings, and 25 active, 50 in total. The 25 active are 'cloned' from the expired, and you cannot, as far as I know, delete those 25 expired sitting in inactive. This happens again and you've got 75 total and 50 under inactive and so on. Next period its 100 and 75.....then you sell item 10 items and delete them from active, but the 3 previous expired entries for said item are still in inactive. "Inactive" is where you go to manage the account - renew things that need renewing. But it becomes really difficult when you don't know if its a real expired item, or one of the three ghost entries of a thrice removed and since sold and deleted item. Because....you cannot delete the early 'expired' records. Meanwhile you may be adding new ads so things are not neat in little 'date blocks' and legit expired are all mixed in with 'ghost' expired ones (that may have sold)

That was probably an awkward explanation, and if you only ever use it for the odd item it may not seem like a big deal. I was trying to clear a bunch of stuff out and it was a nightmare. Asking around, it seems most common work around is delete the account and start a new when 'inactive' becomes so polluted that its challenge to renew the right record. That's a fail imo if thats a users solution to your software.

It just seems a very poor way of doing things that makes the system challenging to use in any volume. every other system from ebay to kijiji to used.com changes the status of an entry as it goes from active to expired to renewed to sold (delete) and there is no duplication which make them so much easier to use

Mcgyver
10-26-2018, 11:39 AM
Very much disagree with a "relatively low starting bid". I always list at the price that will make me happy and if I only get ONE bid, all is good.

I agree with this. Many do the low start bid with a hidden reserve but imo this is disingenuous. I mean come on, you're not willing to sell it below $X, be up front and make that the opening bid so you don't waste peoples time. I know auction houses do this as well occasionally, but no one is putting them on pedestals for great business behaviour. it leaves the impression of if you want to trick and play games that way Mr. Vendor, what else are going to try and trick me with?

gambler
10-26-2018, 11:50 AM
Liquidating some unwanted and valuable vintage watch parts in order to pay for the incredibly expensive servicing of my chronograph has prompted me to finally look into online selling. I have a lot of surplus machinists tools as well but with no particular "need" I have put this (unpleasant for me) task off. That plus my dislike of ebay and PayPal. They are ok for buying but, from what I hear, leave something to be desired for selling, like the 10% vig.

Has anyone here any experience using alternatives (other than Chraig's List)?

can we see pictures of this chronograph?

3 Phase Lightbulb
10-26-2018, 12:39 PM
I agree with this. Many do the low start bid with a hidden reserve but imo this is disingenuous. I mean come on, you're not willing to sell it below $X, be up front and make that the opening bid so you don't waste peoples time. I know auction houses do this as well occasionally, but no one is putting them on pedestals for great business behaviour. it leaves the impression of if you want to trick and play games that way Mr. Vendor, what else are going to try and trick me with?

Yes, a low starting bid with a reserve is silly IMO. That shouldn't be confused with a "relatively low starting bid". It's better to price your item lower than similar items for obvious reasons. Your item will also come up before other items when buyers search based on low-to-high price which I do myself most of the time.

Horst
10-26-2018, 12:44 PM
can we see pictures of this chronograph?
The chronograph is an Omega Speedmaster; lots of pictures online. It is commonly known as the "Moon Watch" because it's what the astronauts wore. My watch predated the moon missions (c1967). There are two versions of this watch, a collectors watch and a service watch. A service watch has components changed by Omega as necessary for functionality/repair and a collector watch is all original. A died-in-the-wool collector prefers a watch to be ratty but original, over a clean and functional watch. I am not a collector so I want to sell the vintage components (replaced by Omega) to cover the $750 fee Omega charges to clean and re-lubricate the movement. I cannot show those parts here for fear of getting banned for selling, which is what happened on the Omega Forum when I inquired about their value.

George Bulliss
10-26-2018, 12:46 PM
I cannot show those parts here for fear of getting banned for selling, which is what happened on the Omega Forum when I inquired about their value.

Go ahead and show the parts. I'm not going to ban you and am interested in seeing them myself.

Mcgyver
10-26-2018, 01:08 PM
I want to sell the vintage components to cover the $750 fee Omega charges to clean and re-lubricate the movement

crazy eh? I would find a good watchmaker, they can do it for a fraction of the price and will be as or more skilled.

The mechanical watch industry is trying oh so hard to shoot itself in the foot. For those who don't know, the large players (like Swatch who owns Omega, Tissot, Longines etc) have stopped selling parts to independent watchmakers. Now, a mechanical watch needs servicing every few years. Disassembly cleaning and re-lubricating. I can do that (but wouldn't for someone else), point being is while its a very specific process needing a lot of care, its not that difficult with a bit of study - something a properly trained watchmaker can do in their sleep and should be $100-$200 to have done.

But the big watch companies, who are squeezing out independents with no part sales, no longer do a clean and lubricate for $150, they do a complete factory rebuild for $750 - $1000. The guy who just bought a watch for $4000, someone who's supported a somewhat tenuous industry with a product you don't really need (every car phone and computer has a clock) then feels like he's bent over every few years. Its like if Audi refused to sell parts and you couldn't get just an oil change going there, min was a $7000 factory service. Its leaving customers PO'd and non OEM parts entering the market, stupid corporate move imo.

Anyway, I don't know if that's applicable to your watch or not Horst given its age, but sending it to Omega is begging to be charged 4x what a clean and oil should be

Horst
10-26-2018, 02:13 PM
I will post pictures as soon as I can spend the time to review the process.

I don't really know much, but I agree with Mcgyver. I am not sending my watch to Omega (this time) but first order of business is to find a trusted outfit. I have found three, one in L.A., one in San Diego and one in the UK. My local watchmaker wants $400, San Diego wants $500 and I don't know about the other two. These numbers seem to be in line with what the Omega forum said to expect.

3 Phase Lightbulb
10-26-2018, 02:15 PM
Here is my chronograph :)

http://www.bbssystem.com/pictures/applewatch3.jpg

Horst
10-26-2018, 03:46 PM
Here are the Photos. If you look closely at the bezel, the one on my watch has a dot next to the "90". The old, chipped bezel has the dot over the "90". This is known as "DON" (dot over 90) bezel. That makes it worth something over $1,000 (to a collector). Crazy.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3807&d=1540579954http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3805&d=1540579947http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3804&d=1540579944http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3803&d=1540579940

P.S. Thanks George. This is a great forum.

Dan_the_Chemist
10-26-2018, 03:58 PM
can we see pictures of this chronograph?

In due time.

3 Phase Lightbulb
10-26-2018, 04:27 PM
Here are the Photos. If you look closely at the bezel, the one on my watch has a dot next to the "90". The old, chipped bezel has the dot over the "90". This is known as "DON" (dot over 90) bezel. That makes it worth something over $1,000 (to a collector). Crazy.

P.S. Thanks George. This is a great forum.

I've never been a "watch" guy, but a few months ago I was handed a gold watch and asked if I could remove the mechanism from it because the gold frame was worth more by itself. I was fiddling with it for a little while with the back cover removed trying to figure out how to remove the mechanism and then noticed it was actually vibrant with activity inside. It almost felt like I was trying to kill something. I kept asking, are you sure? Are you sure? "Yes, yes, the watch isn't worth anything but the frame is".

Paul Alciatore
10-26-2018, 05:06 PM
I have some items for sale and have looked into several on-line venues.

Amazon: If you think E-Bay's charges are high, don't even look at Amazon's unless you have your heart pills handy. And they want it up front, before even the first sale. Duhhhhhhhhh!

I have several long term listings on E-Bay at the present time: they have been active for years. I have only paid any fees when items have sold. Never a penny for just having the listing there. Since they are slow sellers, I do appreciate this.

Most of the items that I have sold or purchased on E-Bay have been tools or supplies related to machining or woodworking. I do use Pay-Pal both ways and have never had any problems with either the sales, the purchases, or the process through Pay-Pal. Frankly, I worry more about using a credit card or sending a payment in advance to a seller. And perhaps the machining community is a bit more honest than the general population, but I have never had a problem with the items that I have purchased.

One thing that I do almost religiously is to always finance a Pay-Pal purchase with a credit card. I do this even if I have sufficient funds in my Pay-Pal account. Why, you ask? Because that gives me an additional avenue of regress if there is a problem. E-Bay has a resolution process, but it is not always the best. Pay-Pal will also look into it but, like E-Bay they are not highly motivated to correct problems. I have found that a complaint to a credit card bank will almost always get the problem resolved. In one instance I had multiple charges that dated back for over a year taken off my credit card account. I had started the complaint process early and it took a while, but I got every cent back. I hope they took that company to court.

No matter who you buy from on the web, ALWAYS pay with a credit card. And NOT a debit card, a CREDIT card.

Frankly, I have not been able to find a better venue for my sales. And with E-Bay I know exactly what the fees will be so I can factor them into the price. This is important because my items are usually priced to the bone.

gambler
10-26-2018, 06:42 PM
In due time.

clever

gambler
10-26-2018, 06:42 PM
anyone know what the numbers on the bezel are for?

PStechPaul
10-26-2018, 07:31 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachymeter_(watch)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Tachymeter_scale_bezel_close-up.jpg/220px-Tachymeter_scale_bezel_close-up.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Analog_watch_tachymeter_diagram.svg/220px-Analog_watch_tachymeter_diagram.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Vintage_Omega_Speedmaster_%22Pre-moon%22.jpg/300px-Vintage_Omega_Speedmaster_%22Pre-moon%22.jpg
BTW, I see that the watch has a back plate with notches, indicating that it may be threaded. I thought that was the case with my Naviforce watch, which stopped displaying the LCD functions, while the analog portion still worked OK. I tried to take it apart by tapping on the notches, and eventually got it to turn a little bit. But by that time the hands had fallen off from the shock, and I realized that it just had to be pried loose.
http://enginuitysystems.com/pix/house/Watch_Naviforce_4342.jpg

Horst
10-26-2018, 08:02 PM
The tach. is used mainly for reading ground speed when flying. Agricultural environments are very often laid out in mile squares so you would pick a spot on the canopy and start the stopwatch as you passed one edge and stop it at the other edge. You can then read your ground speed directly from the tach. By comparing this with your indicated airspeed you can compute wind velocity, necessary for dead-reckoning navigation. All this is from my dad who might have actually used it for that reason. Of course the current justification is because they look cool.