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View Full Version : Grinder Table Build and Need Help Selecting a Vacuum For Table



nc5a
03-29-2019, 02:29 PM
I needed to make grinding and drill bit sharpening more efficient so I built a grinding table. Prior to building the table I sharpened drill bits with the Darex M5 in one corner of the shop did my tool grinding in another corner.

The table is roughly 24" X 32" and fits the three grinders nicely. Currently the table sets on lockable casters but I made adjustable cushioned pads for it should I need or want them.

The big question here has to do with a vacuum source to help pull the grinding dust from carbide, tungsten and other nasty stuff away from the operator. I would like the vacuum to fit in a 13" W X 13" H X 20" L space. That just happens to be 1/2 of the top shelf in the base. The table will have 1/2" plywood for side and back panels and double doors on the front and 3/8" plywood for the shelves.

So, what is the best sucking vacuum you guys can think of that will fit in the space I want it to fit it in. Things to consider are emptying the container, changing bags or even mating it up with a custom cyclone separator in one of the other three 13" X 13" X 20" spaces. I need to reserve space to store grinding supplies. Also, the suction port will be roughly in the center of the table and have a suction hose long enough to reach all grinding stations.

https://i.imgur.com/iaM0odD.jpg

Front of cabinet
https://i.imgur.com/U0poWBX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I8YKDvR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9YWLOmn.jpg

nc5a
03-29-2019, 02:34 PM
More photos of the grinding table

https://i.imgur.com/LD2HBUb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/M2YQV3m.jpg

Tim Clarke
03-29-2019, 03:06 PM
I use my shop vac with a HEPA filter inside. Also, I have a Honeywell Enviracare unit. These are used sometimes by allergy sufferers, and have a HEPA filter, plus a pre-cleaner wrap for the HEPA cartridge. This is in the "dirty" corner of the shop.

nc5a
03-29-2019, 03:19 PM
Tim

I could certainly use my shop vac but I'm looking for something more compact. I'm going to try a different shop lay out and part of the plan is make the machine space more productive.

Ron

Paul Alciatore
03-29-2019, 05:03 PM
I have a couple of those one gallon sized shop vacuums: one is the Shop-Vac brand and the other is a Stanley. Both of them have good suction; easily the equal of my larger, five gallon one, perhaps even better. You would probably want to add a good bag and perhaps a HEPA filter on the exhaust. I am sure that would reduce the suction somewhat. They measure around 9" diameter and about 13" high, plus or minus; so they should fit. They are very light and easy to carry around for use.

The main thing about them is the noise level: the two brands are roughly equivalent in this. My five gallon Shop-Vac is a LOT quieter but it was advertised as a quiet model. I don't know how much of that noise could be eliminated with a good exhaust filter, but it is worth a shot. You could also add some acoustic material around them with proper consideration for an adequate exhaust path.

alanganes
03-29-2019, 05:21 PM
I have used a couple of these for smallish localized cleanup stuff. Snaps on any 5 gallon bucket, decent suction, and cheap. Wet-dry capable as well. Not super quiet, but about as noisy as any reasonably good vacuum.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-5-Gal-1-75-Peak-HP-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

reggie_obe
03-30-2019, 08:15 AM
How about doing what machine shops to? Roum inside a room with a good sealing door and a filtration system that exhausts outside? If you can achieve any amount of negative pressure, no grit will escape.

vpt
03-30-2019, 08:48 AM
When I clicked on the thread I expected to see 'or talk' about a downdraft table that a grinder sits on. Down draft all around the grinder kind of deal.

BCRider
03-30-2019, 10:55 AM
A while back an old Hoover I had bought used for a few bucks and used for nigh on 30 years finally gave up the ghost and needed replacing. This led to looking around a bit and after some reading up on them selecting a Rigid Model WE14500 53L SNR vacuum. I can't say enough good things about it for ability to pull air and dust while not being overly large or overly noisy. In fact my old Shop Vac which was so noisy that it almost required ear protection got replaced by a second one. So as a vacuum source I'd give that unit some serious consideration.

Next up would be to look at the grit coming off the stones during dressing and during grinding of tools. You'll want to orient pickup chutes that capture most of the high energy particles coming off the wheels. So some pretty serious sheet metal work will need to be done around each grinding wheel. Then the suction will help direct the particles that might not be actually aimed at the opening more easily since just a slight direction change is needed instead of a major one.

I've been doing a lot of sharpening of woodwork tools the past few years with a slow speed wet grinder (in a weak moment I bought a Tormak setup). It's a great method and the wet aspect not only cools off the work but also captures any and all grit in the water. A quick check around isn't turning up any examples of slow speed wet grinding for carbide tools and inserts but I did turn up a video on slow speed dry grinding using a diamond plate on a "disc grinder". And it looks promising enough for touching up that I think it might be worth trying this with a setup where the diamond plate is half submerged in water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZxb98UtK-Y&t=483s

And a slow speed setup that also runs wet would certainly not cause any major degree of airborne carbide dust.

Robin R
03-30-2019, 01:43 PM
I would be inclined to build a suitable ducting system for the grinders, and just have a hookup for a shop vac out the side of the table. Then just wheel out the shop vac, and hook it up when you need it.

BCRider
03-30-2019, 01:45 PM
I would be inclined to build a suitable ducting system for the grinders, and just have a hookup for a shop vac out the side of the table. Then just wheel out the shop vac, and hook it up when you need it.

And to maximise the suction a separate connection for each grinding wheel.

Plus it seems that since each collection duct will more than likely need to be aimed downwards it might even be better if the top of the table is removed and the grinders mounted to cross bars so there's more room for the collection ducting.

nc5a
03-30-2019, 02:53 PM
I have a couple of those one gallon sized shop vacuums: one is the Shop-Vac brand and the other is a Stanley. Both of them have good suction; easily the equal of my larger, five gallon one, perhaps even better. You would probably want to add a good bag and perhaps a HEPA filter on the exhaust. I am sure that would reduce the suction somewhat. They measure around 9" diameter and about 13" high, plus or minus; so they should fit. They are very light and easy to carry around for use.

The main thing about them is the noise level: the two brands are roughly equivalent in this. My five gallon Shop-Vac is a LOT quieter but it was advertised as a quiet model. I don't know how much of that noise could be eliminated with a good exhaust filter, but it is worth a shot. You could also add some acoustic material around them with proper consideration for an adequate exhaust path.

Paul I actually looked at a couple of those smallish vacuums and wasn't impressed. Maybe I'll take another look.


I have used a couple of these for smallish localized cleanup stuff. Snaps on any 5 gallon bucket, decent suction, and cheap. Wet-dry capable as well. Not super quiet, but about as noisy as any reasonably good vacuum.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-5-Gal-1-75-Peak-HP-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

I also thought about going this route but when everything was said and done, build wise on the table there wasn't enough room to get a bucket in and out easily. And, with the vacuum unit on top it would be even harder. I probably should have made the space for the vacuum a tad bit larger.


A while back an old Hoover I had bought used for a few bucks and used for nigh on 30 years finally gave up the ghost and needed replacing. This led to looking around a bit and after some reading up on them selecting a Rigid Model WE14500 53L SNR vacuum. I can't say enough good things about it for ability to pull air and dust while not being overly large or overly noisy. In fact my old Shop Vac which was so noisy that it almost required ear protection got replaced by a second one. So as a vacuum source I'd give that unit some serious consideration.

Next up would be to look at the grit coming off the stones during dressing and during grinding of tools. You'll want to orient pickup chutes that capture most of the high energy particles coming off the wheels. So some pretty serious sheet metal work will need to be done around each grinding wheel. Then the suction will help direct the particles that might not be actually aimed at the opening more easily since just a slight direction change is needed instead of a major one.

I've been doing a lot of sharpening of woodwork tools the past few years with a slow speed wet grinder (in a weak moment I bought a Tormak setup). It's a great method and the wet aspect not only cools off the work but also captures any and all grit in the water. A quick check around isn't turning up any examples of slow speed wet grinding for carbide tools and inserts but I did turn up a video on slow speed dry grinding using a diamond plate on a "disc grinder". And it looks promising enough for touching up that I think it might be worth trying this with a setup where the diamond plate is half submerged in water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZxb98UtK-Y&t=483s

And a slow speed setup that also runs wet would certainly not cause any major degree of airborne carbide dust.

BC I too have a Rigid vacuum similar to yours and it works very well but too big for my needs. I also have a slow speed (100 or so rpm) diamond lap like Darrel made in the you tube video and it works great even dry.

[QUOTE=BCRider;1231253]And to maximise the suction a separate connection for each grinding wheel.

This is out of the question. Way too involved making ducting and slide gate valves, besides as you can see from the photos space on top of the table is limited. The plan is to have one flex hose that I can position and secure at each grinding station when I'm grinding or sharpening drill bits.

danlb
03-30-2019, 03:13 PM
I also thought about going this route but when everything was said and done, build wise on the table there wasn't enough room to get a bucket in and out easily. And, with the vacuum unit on top it would be even harder. I probably should have made the space for the vacuum a tad bit larger.




Since this is a dust collection system, the bucket need not be a conventional design. t could be only as deep as that filter basket that hangs down. You could even cut off the filter basket and substitute a flat hepa filter. If you did that the modified bucket could be only an inch or two deep.

Dan

BCRider
03-30-2019, 05:20 PM
I also have a slow speed (100 or so rpm) diamond lap like Darrel made in the you tube video and it works great even dry.

That's great to have the idea confirmed. New project now on the list... the ever growing LOOOOOONG list... :D

I wasn't really thinking of a big nasty plumbing project. Just shrouds that you plug the hose onto depending on which is being used. Or if you can come up with a single pickup shroud that can hook onto each grinder roughly where it'll catch the majority of the spray that could be quick and easy too. No magnets though..... :D

Wheels17
03-30-2019, 09:50 PM
This one https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-3-Gal-3-5-Peak-HP-Portable-Pro-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD3050/202078667 looks pretty small, and the top handle looks like a separate piece. Couldn't find dimensions. A HEPA filter is available.