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don123
04-14-2019, 11:28 PM
A new acquisition (Hahn & Kolb Variomat Vertical Miller)
http://www.lathes.co.uk/hahnkolbvariomat/

http://i63.tinypic.com/jqgeas.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/343j8yf.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/30axumo.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2lik3u9.jpg

754
04-14-2019, 11:33 PM
Looks like a well built production mill. Does it have no Y travel..looks like.

BCRider
04-14-2019, 11:41 PM
In this case I'm pretty sure the "Y" is taken care of by the head ram moving in and out.

If I found a that machine in decent enough shape I'd buy it and sell off my low hours Asian import midi knee mill in the blink of an eye. That Variomat has class and interest oozing out of every opening.

Yeah, the table doesn't appear to have a huge amount of X travel and it's not all that large... unless the pictures are way of of scale from the hints of other things. But that's such a cool old machine that what HSM'er couldn't love it?

J Tiers
04-14-2019, 11:56 PM
Looks solid and nice, even if it does not have the tilting table option.

Where is the OP located? North, because there are paper birches in the background, but no snow, so not too far north, maybe..... I thought he was in Estonia or thereabouts. Way north of me, I am on a latitude with Syria.

don123
04-15-2019, 12:05 AM
Looks solid and nice, even if it does not have the tilting table option.

Where is the OP located? North, because there are paper birches in the background, but no snow, so not too far north, maybe..... I thought he was in Estonia or thereabouts. Way north of me, I am on a latitude with Syria.

I will have to buy a tilting table and a solid vice in future but lets focus first on restoration that i like so much :)
The photos are taken in Slovenia.

don123
04-15-2019, 12:13 AM
In this case I'm pretty sure the "Y" is taken care of by the head ram moving in and out.

If I found a that machine in decent enough shape I'd buy it and sell off my low hours Asian import midi knee mill in the blink of an eye. That Variomat has class and interest oozing out of every opening.

Yeah, the table doesn't appear to have a huge amount of X travel and it's not all that large... unless the pictures are way of of scale from the hints of other things. But that's such a cool old machine that what HSM'er couldn't love it?

The table is 600 x 250. I was looking for somethig smaller first but than i saw this for a funny price + free delivery 220 km away from my place and i had to take it.

NiftyNev
04-15-2019, 04:55 AM
Horizontal as well by the looks of it. I like it.

J Tiers
04-15-2019, 09:12 AM
I will have to buy a tilting table and a solid vice in future but lets focus first on restoration that i like so much :)
The photos are taken in Slovenia.

Can you still get the tilt table for it? Or do you mean one to go on top of the existing table?

old mart
04-15-2019, 09:55 AM
Built like a brick ****house, as I would say.
Unfortunately, it's not in the lathes UK listing, they would welcome any info and pics you might send.

don123
04-15-2019, 10:01 AM
Can you still get the tilt table for it? Or do you mean one to go on top of the existing table?

Yes i meant one to go on the top but maybe i will buy a tilting vice so i will have 2 in 1.

don123
04-15-2019, 10:05 AM
Built like a brick ****house, as I would say.
Unfortunately, it's not in the lathes UK listing, they would welcome any info and pics you might send.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/hahnkolbvariomat/

old mart
04-15-2019, 11:52 AM
It's good to see info on your mill, I just looked for Variomat.

don123
04-15-2019, 12:24 PM
It's good to see info on your mill, I just looked for Variomat.

me to :) but you need to press Ctrl + F and put in variomat its faster and more affidable :)

BCRider
04-15-2019, 12:26 PM
Even if it did not come with the tilting table brackets that would be something which could be made by yourself. The fact that the table "tray" is able to separate from the table drive is a highly interesting idea.

Plus I love how it could be set up with a long or deep piece clamped to the vertical movable table to do work on an edge or end. For most of us we have to use an angle plate for such things. But an angle plate secured to a horizontal table is not at all the same thing as having a vertical table to work with to hold larger items.

All in all I suspect this will be a case of an older machine which certainly has its own limitations. But at the same time has features that will allow some jobs to be done easily that on something like a Bridgeport would not be so easy.

I'll be looking forward to the restoration and tuneup thread to learn more about this interesting milling machine as your work progresses.

DennisCA
04-15-2019, 01:50 PM
Yes the design is quite versatile. So many deckel-style mills were made it really says something about the merits of the design.

754
04-15-2019, 01:55 PM
In a way its the Euro popular choice, much like Bridgeport over here.

old mart
04-15-2019, 02:36 PM
Bridgeport is the commonest in the UK, they were manufactured or assembled here, not sure where.

J Tiers
04-15-2019, 04:31 PM
Yes i meant one to go on the top but maybe i will buy a tilting vice so i will have 2 in 1.

At the UK site they show an actual OEM table that can be tilted, and appears to have been an option for the machine. That would be super cool, as it adds nothing on top that takes up space.

don123
04-15-2019, 06:02 PM
At the UK site they show an actual OEM table that can be tilted, and appears to have been an option for the machine. That would be super cool, as it adds nothing on top that takes up space.

Yes i saw the tilting table on the site but will be hard to find one. For first emergency the head can be tilted - 45, 0 and + 45. For all other degrees i will need something on top. X travel 300 mm, Y 210 mm, Z 300 mm

Alan Smith
04-16-2019, 03:10 AM
Bridgeport is the commonest in the UK, they were manufactured or assembled here, not sure where.

Old Mart, they were made under licence by Adcock and Shipley in Leicester up till the late 60's. I've seen mention of them being made at the CVA plant in Hove but don't know if this is true or not.
Apparently some UK made Adcock and Shipley Bridgeports were exported to the US.

DennisCA
04-16-2019, 04:09 AM
At the UK site they show an actual OEM table that can be tilted, and appears to have been an option for the machine. That would be super cool, as it adds nothing on top that takes up space.


I got an adjustable table on mine (deckel), it was one of those things I really wanted, it even tilts in two axises, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

don123
04-17-2019, 08:45 PM
Guys i need help. Im buying a vice for this mill (table dimensions 600 mm x 210 mm). What dimension should i look for? Serious vices with 200mm jaws are about 50 kg+ isnt this a lil to heavy for a mill like this? What is the max weight i should look for? The mill has 1000 kg.

DennisCA
04-17-2019, 11:56 PM
I've read a 125mm vise was a good fit for a deckel fp2, if this is modeled on a FP1 then maybe 100-125mm one?

hermetic
04-18-2019, 01:20 PM
Adcock and Shipley built Bridgeports under license believe it or not, at Bridlington, East Yorkshire.

mattthemuppet
04-18-2019, 01:36 PM
Paul Alcatoire (sp?) did a neat write up on here where he went through the same process for his mill and made cardboard cutouts for the standard 4, 5 and 6" lock down vises. The issue is typically being able to mount the vise more or less centrally on the table (in terms of Y axis) and still be able to get an end mill to either extreme of opening AND not lose (too) much Y axis travel. Not sure how all that would apply in your case, but it'd be worth doing a similar process. For my 6x26" mill, a 4" vise is the biggest that will fit, for Paul's 8x30 I think he went with a 5". My guess would be that a 5" (125mm) vise would probably be the best compromise for your mill.

neat mill too btw :)

don123
05-12-2019, 09:29 PM
First problems are showing up. The taper in the spindle is MK 4 and its almost imposible to find any tool to buy. I would like to convert it to a more standard taper so i will be able to buy the tools that i need. Should i go for ISO 30 (need to make a new spindle) or ISO 40 (can be done over the existing MK 4 but it makes the spindle weaker)

pinstripe
05-13-2019, 06:38 AM
First problems are showing up. The taper in the spindle is MK 4 and its almost imposible to find any tool to buy. I would like to convert it to a more standard taper so i will be able to buy the tools that i need. Should i go for ISO 30 (need to make a new spindle) or ISO 40 (can be done over the existing MK 4 but it makes the spindle weaker)

What tool are you looking for? Isn't MK just the European name for MT? MT4 to ER shouldn't be too hard to find.

don123
05-13-2019, 09:46 AM
yes yes mk and mt is al the same...im looking for a tool like this https://www.hoffmann-group.com/SI/sl/hsi/Vpenjalna-orodja/Vpenjalna-orodja/Kratka-vpenjalna-vrtalna-glava-oblika-AD-B-SK-50/p/301467-0,5-16

don123
05-13-2019, 09:56 AM
meanwhile i found a used vice 125 x 200. Its a little damaged but it was really cheap.
http://i65.tinypic.com/241s6sy.png

bob308
05-13-2019, 10:07 AM
I ran one similar to that one back when I was an apprentice. they are a real mill.

A.K. Boomer
05-13-2019, 10:19 AM
I would seriously miss a quill pump... am I missing something by looking at it? does not seem to have a method for that -----------?

and yes it is built to the gills for being rigid that's for sure...

mattthemuppet
05-13-2019, 12:03 PM
yes yes mk and mt is al the same...im looking for a tool like this https://www.hoffmann-group.com/SI/sl/hsi/Vpenjalna-orodja/Vpenjalna-orodja/Kratka-vpenjalna-vrtalna-glava-oblika-AD-B-SK-50/p/301467-0,5-16

I'd find a 5/8 or 3/4 MT4 collet and tool up on straight shank tooling. Or buy/ make an MT4>ER32 (or ER40) adapter and run straight shank tooling in that. Won't be as stout as a proper ISO40 spindle, but whether or not that matters depends on the kind of work you plan on doing.

pinstripe
05-13-2019, 12:09 PM
yes yes mk and mt is al the same...im looking for a tool like this https://www.hoffmann-group.com/SI/sl/hsi/Vpenjalna-orodja/Vpenjalna-orodja/Kratka-vpenjalna-vrtalna-glava-oblika-AD-B-SK-50/p/301467-0,5-16

Llambrich makes a chuck similar to that (with a hex key to tighten) that comes in a straight shank. The part number is HX-13 5/8. They make it in MT4 as well, but I don't think you can get it with a drawbar end. See http://online.anyflip.com/eqcm/dugf/mobile/index.html#p=5

You can mount the straight shank in an ER collet. It's a 5/8 shank. Close to 16mm, but I would get a proper 5/8 collet and do it up REALLY tight.

don123
05-13-2019, 03:24 PM
A friend of mine told me to buy this chuck. He sayd that he is working 8 hours a day with this and it grips really tight.