OT: Hot Tub Quandry

[Tim The Grim]

I have an 11 year old Sundance hot tub that has served me pretty well. I don’t think I would do as well as I do without it. My refinery job this last 15 years is very rough on my now almost 66 year old body and a hot soak really takes the edge off. It’s been a Godsend during my cardiac rehab . Now I’m back at work doing 12 hr shifts.

It’s not hot anymore. I have an FL1 error code, the most common, and after trying ALL the most obvious of remedies it still shows. Now I’m looking at up to $750 in just parts with really no guarantee that any one part will clear the code. New main board, control panel and maybe a circulation pump.

Prior to this I’ve replaced all 3 pumps ($900), the pillows twice, 2 valves and had to do some repairs on aging plastic parts that broke due to age/cross linking from bromine exposure. Altogether I’m in it about $9500 and now about 30 hours total of my time.

I could get a new, less fancy, one at Sams for 4K that would serve it’s purpose or keep pouring cash into this one and wonder what might fail next. I’m thinking I should bail on this one, pull the pumps, sell them on CL and enjoy something new as I prepare to retire in November. My wife says call a service guy and save this one. I’m just not that sentimental.

I have a lot of respect for all you guys. Any opinions are welcome.

[3 Phase Lightbulb]

I've been wanting to get a nice hot tub for the back yard. We're probably going to be putting an inground pool in this fall and I'm debating if I should have the hot-tub be built the by pool people and be in-ground next to the pool or just go with an above ground hot tub system now on an existing patio which will then be later completely re-done with the new pool environment/patio/etc.

[macona]

One of two things, probably. One is the pressure/flow switch. It is on the heater tube. These go bad and when they do the relay for the heater will not come on. Take a multimeter and measure across the two terminals with the wires disconnected. When the pump is running it should show 0 ohms.

Second is the heater element. They also have a limited lifetime. I have changed mine a couple times.

You can fit it yourself for less than $100. If you really want to spend $4k, thats up to you.

Sounds like you may have hard water if you are going through parts this fast.

[DennisCA]

We build and sell hot tubs, spas and saunas. What I know is I don't want one! Money pits.

Pressure flow switch is a common fault, 2nd most common is a safety breaker releasing, more than once people have had an electrician check the tub and he couldn't figure that out... We had one seller travel 100km one way to a customer just so he could get out of the car, open a service door and press a button, then go back home. This despite us telling the electrican about the safety breaker.

[Black Forest]

Fix the one you have.

[lakeside53]

yep... just fix it.

[Tim The Grim]

I’ve done the VOM on both the flow switches I have and they pass, completely isolated the main board and sprayed every connector/socket with tuner cleaner. Tapped all the relays and eprom. Did the same with the control panel and the junction box. Purged lines and pumps with pressure and suction No help. I’ve done all the previous work on this and pretty much know it inside and out.

Every time I delve into it I find something else that’s deteriorated. Now the Mrs. is frustrated too.
There’s a guy on a hot tub q&a blog that spent some heavy bucks trying to fix the same issue I’m having and struck out. He finally tossed his and bought new.

I’ve got one more guy to talk to before I bite the bullet on this dog.

Thanks for the replies.

[johansen]

wire up an ignorant hot water heater thermostat to the pump and the heating element, a few water proof toggle switches to the pumps. no need for hundreds of dollars....

[macona]

wire up an ignorant hot water heater thermostat to the pump and the heating element, a few water proof toggle switches to the pumps. no need for hundreds of dollars....

Or never do that. That's just a bad idea on so many levels.

You can get complete replacement spa packages, pump, heaters, controller, and topside controls. I picked up a modern electronic unit off craigslist for about $100. Had been installed and then the tub froze and broke all the piping. Spa package was fine though.

[Glug]

wire up an ignorant hot water heater thermostat to the pump and the heating element, a few water proof toggle switches to the pumps. no need for hundreds of dollars....

And what safeties exist in such a system? Who is liable if it goes bad? It is very important to have an obvious digital temp indicator on the tub, and to check it every single time..

I know a case very much like that. Warning - morbid hot tub reality follows.

A friend was involved in litigating a case where a guy stepped into a near boiling hot tub and it burned his lower leg so bad that he lost ALL the skin, to halfway up the calf (can't recall if it was one or both legs, think it was both). The photos of the guy's exposed muscle and and bone were so bad they made the law office secretary sick - and she sees all the nasty case photos that come in. Fortunately the guy did not fall into the tub from the shock.

It did come out later that the tub had apparently been modified by the injured owner in some way. At first it sounded like a malfuncting hot tub, with the mfg at fault. But maybe the guy was at fault. I don't know how it came out, I think not good. It was not a case that anyone liked to discuss.

A tub that doesn't get up to temp is just a lousy broken tub, maybe with a warranty issue. But a tub with modifications or unauthorized repairs can be a life changer for all concerned. Safety features are key.

[lakeside53]

As above 2 posts.

I recently replaced the entire controller package in a friend's high-end hot tub. About $550 (discount online). Sure, I could have messed around with the old and maybe figured what was wrong, but it's not worth it - even the manf will not repair them (liability). It's not just a circuit board in a metal box - these are well packaged for the nasty environment with waterproof connectors etc.

You can expect periodic replacement of just about every part in a exterior hot tub. Horrible environment for anything to survive.

[Danl]

Tim, I have a 27 year old Sundance Sentry 800 spa that gave up the ghost 1½ years ago, and I decided to to pour any more money and effort into. I had the controller motherboard refurbished by an outfit in Colorado (I think), about 2 years before that. You are welcome to anything on my spa for free if you are willing to pay shipping. I just quit heating and I gave up on it. Not worth it for how little we used it.

I'm going to cut it to pieces with my Sawzall this summer to get it out of here.

Dan L

[Paul Alciatore]

A hot tub! Tub, heater, pumps! That's about it, isn't it?

So why do you need a computer control? A switch will turn the pumps on and off. And a standard thermostat will control the temperature. Easy-peasy. So they design it with a computer. WHY? Does it do your math homework while you relax?


Some basic troubleshooting is all that is needed here.

Is the water hot enough?

Yes. No problem.

No. Then put a multimeter on the heater leads. Is there power there?

Yes. BAD heater element. You can check this with the resistance scale on that multimeter: disconnect at least one end first and TURN THE POWER OFF. Replace the heater element.

No. Controller is not working properly. I would replace it with a simple thermostat. If you can not find a simple thermostat with the appropriate Voltage and current ratings, use a contactor (relay). Done! Probably around $100, plus or minus depending.

If you go the thermostat route, you may want to add a second temperature sensor to cut it off if things get too hot. Safety first.

[garagemark]

I left the pump controls intact on my tub and put a temperature controller on the heater. It ran the circulator pump and heater- that's it. As a bonus I put the controller in the house by the door. Always knew what was happening under the cover and could adjust temp from inside. On warm days I might turn it down a few degrees. On buttarse cold days I might tweak it up a notch.

If you want to gut the computer, you can purchase air switches fairly reasonably. Or you can put a little transformer in it and run the controls on low voltage. That and using weatherproof automotive or marine switches it'd be a cake walk to convert it to a dumb tub. And for probably around a C note.

[YukonHam]

We went through the same issue about a year ago. Ultimately replaced our old hard tub spa with a soft tub. Had the pumps rebuilt twice over the years, replaced lots of the plastic parts that had deteriorated over time (we live in a climate with extreme seasonal temperature changes), replace the tub side controller, etc., etc. I did manage to get $500 'trade in' for the old tub.

Decided it was kind of like having an old car - if you have unlimited time, and access to reasonably priced parts, you can get around all right for not too much money. If neither time or reasonably priced parts are abundant, sometimes you just have to suck it up and replace instead of trying to repair.

Of course, having come to that conclusion, I wasn't too happy this spring when my 18 year old Subaru started needing lots of expensive parts...