Laser Questions

[Arbo]

I am thinking of adding a laser to the head of my mill/drill for easier head alignment. The problem I have is...I don't know squat about lasers. I would like a small/compact unit to mount on the head that could be operated on 120VAC with a simple on off switch. (read:a laser pointer that I can plug into an outlet) My idea is to be able to turn the laser on, move the head up or down, and realign using the laser dot on a corresponding plumb line on the opposite wall, then turn the laser off. Any ideas or sources for something like this that won't break the bank? All I can on the net is the basic battery op pointer, or things that completely confuse me. Thanks i advance.

[jcc3inc]

Sir:

There is a YahooGroup Mill-Drill where others have done what you want to do. Try them!

Regards,
Jack C.

[ibewgypsie]

If Sears had the spindle model in stock. It has two lasers throwing two adjustable lines giving you a crosshairs.

I was going to purchase one for my mill for simple drilling procedures.

They are out of stock at the moment.

It is a cheapo laser running with a servo operated mirror or laser module.

David

[SGW]

I think I'd be inclined to try one of the battery-powered pointer jobs. That's probably about as cheap and compact as you're going to get, and one of those should have more than enough range for what you're doing. Why do you think you need 120VAC?

[aboard_epsilon]

I would think the lazer idea would only work , if your mill was bolted down.
then for total accuracy you would have to have one pointed in each xyz plain at marked points on the wall and one on the ceiling/roof.
if its not bolted down ...it will move between checks ...meaning that the next time you checked it, the lazers would not point to the fixed points you left the last time.

the lazer hand pointers would do this prity good as long as you made solid mounts for them......but i think if you practice enough with the dial indicator ....you could put your head spot on in two or three mins.
all the best....mark

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 10-22-2004).]

[Arbo]

Why do you think you need 120VAC?

I prefer to be able to plug it in. I have an unheated garage, and the Pennsylvania winters can be pretty hard on batteries.

the lazer hand pointers would do this prity good as long as you made solid mounts for them......but i think if you practice enough with the dial indicator ....you could put your head spot on in two or three mins.
all the best....mark

I can do it fairly quickly with the DI, and probably still would for anything that I might consider "critical accuracy" or as close as I can get with my mll/drill. I was basically looking for a quick and easy way to align the head between changes for the rough jobs.

[aboard_epsilon]

ERRRR WELL.......with three hand pointers you could do some clever wiring maybe a resister or two nothing more,and have all three working off a car battery charger.
all the best.....mark

[ibewgypsie]

A Wall wart would be much better thank you.

I have a hundred of so of them somewhere in a big box, it is easier thou to go get one than try to find the right one and then untangle it.

THE Sears laser trac mounts on the spindle housing, it is offset 90 degrees to the left and 90 to the back. CENTER is center of the mount, a scanning type laser throws a line from each laser output. THE crosshair just happens to cross the Center of the bed reguardless of where the chuck is.. and the bed..

Pretty neat. I wish I had thought of it. I want one, they have been out of stock the last two times I went down there. Not good for them, copy is what the chinese are good at. I look for one to show up at Harbor freight anyday. I might buy it. If the truth would be known, the manufacturer for sears is chinese and waiting to fill orders so he can submit a "copy" to compete.. He knows releasing the sears one will result in mucho lost profit by not being able to compete with his customer.


[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 10-22-2004).]

[Herb Helbig]

I use a wall wart - aka an AC adapter - 110VAC in, 4.5VDC out. American Science and Surplus sells them pretty cheap.

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[Gary Helmick]

Can any one point me to the Sears spindle model laser?
I checked out the Sears web site and couldn't find it.
Thanks for the help
Gary Helmick

[ibewgypsie]

Here's a cool drill press gadget

I cruised Sears and discovered their Laser Trac laser spotting attachment for general use on drill presses. It projects crossed laser lines that intersect at the spindle axis. The lines are bright and easy to see but fat and not particularly sharp. Still I imagine with care one could spot within a CEP of less than 1/64" of the layout with a little practice.

It directly installs on some Sears drill pres models. The rest might require some tinkering and adaptation to get it to fit and properly align the cross line to the true spindle axis.

At $40 it aint cheap but it aint bad either.

No plug. Just a suggestion.

Sears item #00924042000
Mfr. model #24042

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00924042000


Previous thread by Forrest.. clip, cut, pasted..


David

[Joel]

Apparently the "Craftsman Laser Trac Laser Attachment" is a online/catalog item only.

[aboard_epsilon]

But it does not do what arbo is asking of it.
So back to the drawingboard guys.
all the best..mark

[CompositeEngr]

Arbo,
How about drilling a reference dot on your table?
Align to the mark using the xy laser, raise the head, realign to the reference mark.

That's how we do camera offsets in equipment at work. The PCB router drills a hole, then you jog the camera over and the software records the steps it took. The only calibration for that is making sure the spindle is parallel to the camera.

-edit-
Or, even simpler... just mount a cheap laser pointer parallel to the spindle. When you need to change height, turn on the laser, mark the spot it hits on the table or workpiece, and make your adjustment.

[This message has been edited by CompositeEngr (edited 10-23-2004).]

[Arbo]

Composite,

I like the way you're thinking. That is a wonderful idea. I see myself mounting a small pointer directly in the spindle with a collet or a chuck, and going from there. Thanks so much! It's one of those things that is so nelementary, that I never would have thought of it.

[nheng]

Arbo: Your projection onto a far wall is a great idea.

At 10 feet away, a 0.1 degree error in head rotation will give you a 0.20" movement of the dot. You could place a polished piece of 0.005" - 0.010" wire against a black card on that wall.

You might be able to see 0.010" or so without a telescope from the "glint" when the laser hits the polished wire. This would correspond to an angle of only 0.0000014 degrees. The best indexing heads can only resolve many times this number.

I know I'm gonna do it http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Den

[nheng]

Another update: So much for the effect of flu symptoms on the brain. Totally missed the initial point about a plumb line. It does need to be extremely thin though.

Update:
It works and is incredible! I think you could also use any thin white sewing thread against a black background. Just plumb the thread (provided your head is plumb). It is incredibly easy to see http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Gotta get back to my flu symptoms now. Too much excitement for one morning.
Den

[This message has been edited by nheng (edited 10-23-2004).]

[This message has been edited by nheng (edited 10-23-2004).]

[joahmon]

Horrible Freight sells a battery powered "laser level" they call "torpedo boy" for $20 on sale. Take it off the tripod and it has a built in magnet and a "spreader" for the beam to produce a line on the wall. It works great on my 3in1 !!!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41102

[This message has been edited by joahmon (edited 10-23-2004).]

[PeteM]

Costco and others sell an inexpensive laser device ($20 or so) meant for positioning your car in a garage. This comes with two tiny laser heads already mounted on gimbals plus a small AC adapter. It worked very nicely when I had a round column mill drill. Mounted the sharper (smaller dot) of the two lasers on the mill, leveled both the mill and set a plumb line about 16' away. Good to better than .01

[SJorgensen]

I'm with you Nheng,

I hope you don't run out of tissues.

We don't need not steeeennkiiinnn flu shots. When they are ready to CURE the flu and irradicate it from the earth, then I'll take the shot. Otherwise it is a risk that is a part of life. I've had worse flu's. So far this one is just a bad cold. The worse ones have strep like symptoms with green colors.

[elbryant]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nheng:
Arbo: Your projection onto a far wall is a great idea.

At 10 feet away, a 0.1 degree error in head rotation will give you a 0.20" movement of the dot. You could place a polished piece of 0.005" - 0.010" wire against a black card on that wall.

You might be able to see 0.010" or so without a telescope from the "glint" when the laser hits the polished wire. This would correspond to an angle of only 0.0000014 degrees. The best indexing heads can only resolve many times this number.)
</font>


For those of us who are challenged in the area of spatial relations (with or without flu symptons), could you elucidate a bit? It sounds like you are focusing the lazer on reference points on the wall - how does that help you locate the drilling point????

Ed

[aboard_epsilon]

read the first post ED
the idea is that he dials the head so that it is spot on
then mounts the lazers rigidly so that they point at different points on the wall.
he themn marks the points
then the next time he go's to put the head back in true ...he uses the lazers and not the dial.
all the best..mark


[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 10-23-2004).]

[hoffman]

Good stuff guys! I'm hoping to have my drill/mill by thanksgiving. I've given a lot of thought to the round column problems...

[nheng]

Ed, I've been spatially challenged and elucidating for two days now http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif but like aboard_epsilon says, you're restoring spindle axial alignment (removing head twist) after vertical head movement ... one of the greatest shortcomings of the mill drills.

It seems (after 5 minutes of play anyway) possible to get an extreme level of accuracy by placing the beam in the "just off" the string to "just on" the string. Ten or twenty thousandths seems doable and this give incredible angle accuracy when you correct any twisting that took place when you moved the head.

JackC. Sorry, just noticed your mention of the Yahoo group and will have to check it out.
Den

[This message has been edited by nheng (edited 10-24-2004).]

[elbryant]

Thanks for clarifying. I was trying to figure how this would help you locate your cutting tool over the work - just by putting the spindle in the same location after moving it.

Ed

[mayfieldtm]

If you do the math, Lasers end up not being all that accurate.
Lucky to get +-0.010".
Some mount a piece of bar stock up near the side of the mill (from the base) and use a dial indicator on the moveable head.
Trick is to get it nice and parallel with the column.
I often see simple laser pointers next to the check stands for about 3-5 bucks.
Get one of those and play with it.
Just turn it on when using it and the battery will last forever (or half of forever).

Tom M.