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ibewgypsie
11-11-2004, 01:54 PM
I recently sold at auction some electrical contactors and enclosures.

One of the purchasers, a supply company complained about shipping wanting to renegociate the shipping price. I had (to a hsm members advice) posted a shipping calculator on the page.

He delayed payment, emailing over and over arguing about the price even to the the point where if he was in person he'd have a physical confrontation. Hateful and mean emails, once he figured out he was not going to get a cheaper price he paid via paypal. I refunded his payment since I know how the conclusion of the auction will end. He has since filed A square trade complaint, emailed ebay, and gotten my personal information including my phone number from ebay.

The contactor he won at auction sold for $700+ new, he got it for $20 plus defined shipping of $22. I felt alright about this. He owns a wholesale electrical business, I have actually very little in the item.

Not a very happy deal. PAYPAL cost me $2 to refund 100% of his money.

Perhaps he'll come visit in person??

USED to be once a ebayer became abusive or threatening they were removed from all future ebay deals bidding or selling, thier membership ended. Evidently things have changed. Seller/buyer beware..

Also, in the last week, the things I calculated shipping on were incorrect, evidently shipping prices have went up. Probably for fuel changes. It has cost me more than quoted to ship the last four items.

Seller/buyer beware.. On items you can purchase locally it probably is better to do so.

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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

Alistair Hosie
11-11-2004, 02:29 PM
David the world is full of twits like that don't let them grind you down.
If he has threatened you in writing I would contact the police as this is not on.
Anyway it is better for him (knowing you as I do) if he does not turn up in person, but still if he has said thisespecially in wriring that is a threat and punishable get in touch with the police and let them sort him out.keep cool big guy keep yer cool.kindest regards Brother.Alistair

JRouche
11-11-2004, 04:09 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:

Also, in the last week, the things I calculated shipping on were incorrect, evidently shipping prices have went up. Probably for fuel changes. It has cost me more than quoted to ship the last four items.
</font>


Ahhh, thats right, big brown has upped the cost to ship. That's a good point. When you use the shipping calc. on the Bay it uses current shipping costs it doesn't do a UPS look-up when the bidder hits the calculate button. Hasn't been a prob. in the past, stable fuel prices. Thanks for the heads up mister. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//tongue.gif JRouche

IOWOLF
11-11-2004, 05:45 PM
As I have said before, stat shipping as the max. from you to the most expencive place in the conus(if that is all you ship to) ad 10% and do the flat rate thing. this way s&h is up front and you have a leg to stand on . And save all emails from him and submit them to ebay when there is s problem.

ps. what is his ebay name, so we can all be aware.

The One True Bob
11-11-2004, 06:08 PM
If you use one of those third party outlet mailing services that has PO Boxes, cartons, etc., be *extra* aware. At the one I *used* to use till very recently, I noticed bigger and bigger signs everywhere in his shop saying that he (the Friendly Neighborhood Hard-working Franchise Shipping Guy (FNHFSG)) because everyone had pushed their prices up for fuel charges. It was a big problem, people were always complaing, FNHFSG felt terrible about this situation, and I kept getting *nailed* on shipping charges. "Nope", FNHFSG - "Its that durn fuel charge that's hurting all of us cuz of the Iraq war."

I finally wised up. A little research revealed two things:

1. Most of the "fuel charges" apply to certain types of transport and are not universally applied across the board.

2. My suspicion that I was paying just about 45% more than what eBay said UPS, USPS, and DHL would charge was on the money. Thats what I get for being a moron, and not weighing and measuring my packages myself prior to showing up. Ronnie Ray Gun had it cold: "Trust, but verify." He taught me better.

This time -- the *last* time -- I knew I had a 60 lb 3 oz package (exact) and I knew the dimensions cold. I had checked on-line, and printed out exactly what UPS, USPS, and DHL would charge for my shipping, insurance etc.

Surprise, surprise... sure enough -- I was shocked and dismayed to find FNHFSG's pricing was *exactly* 45% over on all three shippers. Almost to the penny. FNHFSG rushed from computer to computer, trying so hard to get me the "best price" by checking pricing through all three shippers.

Once he had his figures, I handed my research to him. I pointed out the 45% discrepancy which reached across the board to all three shippers, and suggested that perhaps there was an international shipping conspiracy.

My friendly helpful shipper was "horrified and confused" at this turn of events). He had many bad things to say about the guy who programmed his computer, the shipping companies and postal service, Irag, Democrats, Republicans, and the alignment of the stars. Overcoming the his devastation at providing such nebulous service because of bad information on the computers, and setting his jaw firmly to show his determination to get to the bottom of this, FNHFSG went back to the machine, and punched a couple more buttons.

Viola! Suddenly, it was a miracle. The machine showed the same price I'd brought in with me! He didn't know how *that* had happened, but by goodness he "was sure gonna check into it" because it was obvious that the web sites were wrong and there was some kind of a computer error, and maybe even a virus. In the meantime, he'd just charge me what the latest figure on his machine was, and square it with me the next time I was in after he'd "gotten to the bottom of this". He couldn't wait to conclude our business so he could tear right into those darned dishonest shippers.

Yeah. I'll be right back, in the next lifetime. Simple logic: He was able to change the price back, so chances are he changed it forward in the first place because he'd be the one to benefit. If it'd been something the franchise or the shippers set up, he probably wouldn't have been able to change it.

mpbush
11-11-2004, 06:14 PM
There are a lot of buyers who use intimidation to try and get better prices after the auction.

Ebay has gone from bad to worse on how they deal with those things. I used to enjoy selling on ebay but no longer. Only problem is there is really no other place to go.

JRouche
11-11-2004, 06:17 PM
For shipping I use a digital scale (200lbs cap) then when I sell an item I use the shipping calculator so the buyer is only charged actual shipping.No emails, no phone calls, it's right there, but the rare idiot that can't follow really clear directions gets "Plonk".

The blanket shipping cost will be a deterrent for local buyers, they don't want to pay extra for shipping that is bogus. I also have a UPS account so that guy making 45% wont git his. By the way, don't you figure he oughta get something for standing there? JRouche

[This message has been edited by JRouche (edited 11-11-2004).]

x39
11-11-2004, 06:52 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
Perhaps he'll come visit in person??
</font>

LOL! I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one!

Alistair Hosie
11-11-2004, 08:04 PM
people are very brave with what they say on phone in email when in person he's probably a little wimp who's wife beats him around the head for not doing the dishes fast enough.Alistair

CCWKen
11-11-2004, 08:26 PM
How did you refund the money? The last time I checked, Paypal didn't charge for "refunds".

File a NPB for the buyer. It's the only way to protect your side. Oh but wait, you already refunded the money? Ops. That makes it sound like YOU backed out of the contract. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

Listing saying you take Paypal then refusing to accept it as payment can also get you a strike. I feel a NaRU comming. Be careful.

ibewgypsie
11-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
Nov. 10, 2004 Payment From ****** Electric Supply Refunded Details $40.25 USD -$1.47 USD $38.78 USD
Nov. 10, 2004 Refund To ****** Electric Supply Completed ... -$40.25 USD $1.47 USD -$38.78 USD

CCW: YEP, Paypal made money going and coming.

With the threats, hateful mail violating policy. Forget it. If they really want to get nasty forget them.

Last letter was a plea, Offer of UPS pick up from the shop.. Evidently he needs the size two starter for something paying. He should have went about it a little nicer. I am pretty much done for a while.

The rude guy, he has pushbuttons listed at $60 each. gee.. My apprentice used to throw them in the river to try and hit catfish too close to the dam.

Buying something improperly listed, listing it properly can make you money, provided you don't spend too much on shipping and handling.

I think I'll go back to a nice electrical job for a week or two or three. I am low enough on the Union books to get a decent job.



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David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

J Tiers
11-11-2004, 11:52 PM
BOB:

A couple things.

One, you can EXPECT to pay more for convenience. If you want the best shipping rate, either haul it to the Brown Devils depot yourself, or start your own mailbox business.
The guy has bills to pay just like you.

Two, of course he was apparently charging way above retail rates, which is really rather rude. He gets a discount, and I would not be surprised to find 10 or 15% above UPS retail shipping rates.

The 45% is too much, more than I would expect. Depends a lot on the area though. In the yuppie areas, those prices don't get even a wince from the suits or the stretch pants and perfect hair crowd.

BillH
11-11-2004, 11:59 PM
People need to make money somewhere. If your local guy charged the same price as UPS, where would his profit come from? The price breaks from UPS wouldnt be enough to live off on. I have gotten my hands on a Sieg price list for mini lathes and accessories. Sure enough all the retailers selling mini lathe accessories have marked up the price by atleast 100%, decent profit margin if you ask me.
But as consumers, it is our right and duty to search for the best deals possible.

HTRN
11-12-2004, 02:31 AM
If this FNHFSG(to use Dave's abreviation) is a UPS store, then he should be the same price as UPS.

HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com/enter.htm)

[This message has been edited by HTRN (edited 11-12-2004).]

ibewgypsie
11-12-2004, 11:02 AM
My last letter out: Till the next unsatisfied customer bids and thinks he will redo the ebay deal. Now for all those aol accounts that are not recieving my ebay mail..

Howdy..

I refunded payment, this cost me a little less than $2 out of pocket. I
have shipped out four items in the past week and all cost me more than I
charged. You got hateful over shipping charges. I have saw in the past that
someone who is not happy will not be happy no matter what you do and will
have a problem regardless. Best thing was to refund money before I lost
shipping charges on the return trip, as I have in the past. Last real
expensive item was a camaro transmission, cost me $55 to ship back.
I do/did not set the rates for shipping, I added a amount $5 to the
total on the shipping calculator page, this was to cover the box at the UPS
packing store. THIS did not, not has covered the fuel or time it takes to
deliver the package to the ups store.
It is over, I refunded your money, place a negative feedback and I will
counter with one equally offensive. You are not going to get "free" shipping
no matter how much you moan and cry and get hateful. It is not negociatable.
It is a bad trait to even try to haggle the matter. I have no control over
UPS shipping charges or paypal or any other ebay feature..
For the amount of the auction I would not have put up with so much trouble
from one person. If you had been in our "store" you would have met the local
constable and been escorted off the property.
This transaction is not completed till both parties are satisfied. I am
kinda tired of even emailing you and trying to be pleasant. You have been
granted a full refund since you were unhappy.
Do as you wish. Please do not contact me anymore.
I suggest you purchase a electrical device elsewhere.

David Cofer

Too_Many_Tools
11-12-2004, 11:14 PM
I have been on both sides of this type of distasteful transaction. Neither were very much fun.

I had a buyer repeatily threaten me during an Ebay transaction a few years ago. Real wacko job. Wrong thing to do and the wrong person to do it to. This person doesn't buy on Ebay any more since he now lives in the State prison.

I have a policy that if someone threatens me or my family, I will ALWAYS press charges and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Life is too short to put up with people who think they can bully their way through life. Best to stand your ground and stop the situation immediately from becoming a life threatening one.

In the past I had a seller who was stiffing me on some accessories for a lathe he sold me. After he told me to **** myself after I politely called to inquire the whereabouts of the missing accessories, I proceeded to go to his shop and asked for the accessories in person. The catch was his shop was 2000 miles away and I had a business trip planned for that very morning I called that placed me in his area later that afternoon. The look on his face when I announced who I was and what I was there for was priceless. It also did not hurt that he had several other customers listening to my request for my accessories. I received not only my accessories but I also purchased several additional items. The point is that I kept my head and maintained a business relationship to the very end.

From what you are describing, it sounds like the sooner you can reach the end of this transaction the better it will be for all concerned. Stand your ground, treat him the way you would like to be treated and then move on. Life is too short as it is to lose sleep over the jerks that live amoung us.

Good luck.

TMT

ibewgypsie
11-12-2004, 11:40 PM
I think some people think they must go through life being mean and hateful to everyone around them.

Too bad for them, they never enjoy life.

I sure have gotten some enjoyment out of my shop today. DIDJA see the post on the stepper actuator? whoo hoo.. Lots of mindless cutting and drilling.. I used the cnc in MDI mode, one liner.. go here, do that do this.. simple..

THERE is something relaxing about watching chips come off metal. It never fails to amaze the child in me to watch the cnc do it's thang.. Like magic.. I wired it, I know how it works and still am amazed.

David

sandman2234
11-13-2004, 01:21 AM
I sent a USPS money order to Ohio, only to have it returned. Emailed the seller, who promptly told me the correct address, which was the one I had just sent it to. I called the post office in Ohio to ask, and they said that person wasn't an occupant of the P.O. box, so they would return it again. I did the request from ebay to get the seller's phone # and called (her). As soon as I identified myself, i got cussed out for calling. I promptly filed a complaint with ebay, cashed the money order and never looked back. Life is too short to deal with obnoxious people.
David from jax

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Have gun, will travel.

chief
11-13-2004, 06:50 AM
If the moron is close by I will confront him in person, if he wants to get phyiscal
so be it but if you have his address,phone number or other info why not make his life painful.
Call the power company say you want the power turned off to do re-wiring (friday afternoon so it cost big $$ to have it turned on over the weekend)
Nothing embrasses like homosexual literature in the mail. It's endless and fun.