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Spin Doctor
11-17-2004, 07:18 AM
Can ypou believe the price on this thing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3852541642&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Last week an older Hardinge, the predeccesor to the HLV series went for the same amount and has to be 5 times the lathe, plus you could buy a brand new lathe in this general size for less money

Alaninga
11-17-2004, 07:56 AM
although possibly an earlier 'better' version import,,,THAT much money??? I don't think I know anything anymore!

Locksmith
11-17-2004, 08:07 AM
Hey Spin,
Not everybody on ebay knows what they're talking about. See it all the time and it often includes me in that group.
Makes me think of all the customers who try to tell me my business (I'm a locksmith). I seriously doubt that there's even one guy on this board who hasn't had a customer do that to him. How about you?

pgmrdan
11-17-2004, 09:27 AM
According to the ebay advertisement it's a model #110-0820. According to Enco it's really a 9x20, not an 8x20.

New from Enco you can get the lathe and stand today for about $1,027 and it's shipped free.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=110-0820

It's over 3 1/2 years old and it's currently priced at $550 more than a new one would cost!!! Then you have to add shipping!!! Yes, it has a couple of accessories but...

[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 11-17-2004).]

nheng
11-17-2004, 09:38 AM
They must think it's an EMCO (fine Austrian precision iron), not ENCO (Chinese) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

This Enco was as low as $599 on sale at times and at this price, they still made money.

Grizzly is currently $750 and $110 for the stand and they seem to stand strongly behind their product when you need them.

Any psychologists in the group? What do we need to put in OUR ads to get attract such ridiculous prices http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif


[This message has been edited by nheng (edited 11-17-2004).]

Milacron of PM
11-17-2004, 09:59 AM
Back in the days when anyone could access the email addresses of the other bidders, I would occasionly notice something like this and email the high bidder to ask why he just bid more than new price and include a link to the new version for proof. Of in some cases, the bid was just a few dollars less than new but the item looked trashed, such that buying new made much more sense.
I was genuinely curious about this, but never got back a single response.

aboard_epsilon
11-17-2004, 10:14 AM
"Any psychologists in the group? What do we need to put in OUR ads to get attract such ridiculous prices"

Perhaps a picture of yourself recieving an award..
all the best..mark

Paul Alciatore
11-17-2004, 10:46 AM
Some sellers manipulate the auctions. Submit bogus bids under different names to inflate the price. That could be part of what is happening here.

Paul A.

Alaninga
11-17-2004, 11:20 AM
I'm selling one dollar bills here and now for $20 each,,plus $5.95 shipping and handling. Used bills. Discounts available for purchase of 5 or more. Envelope included.

Frank Ford
11-17-2004, 11:37 AM
I dunno - such shill bidding requires that final bid to come from a real buyer. So, if the bidding is jacked up too high, you'd think it would be logical for reall bidders to take a hike. But they don't.

I run a guitar shop, and we do a fair bit in the vintage guitar business, both in sales and restoration. I see eBay purchasers every week bringing in their "bargains." The auction fever seems to be irresistable. It's the age-old power of the "intermittent reward," the same force that keeps people pulling slot machine handles.

That early Hardinge may have the potential of being five times the lathe, but I have a feeling that setting it up would be quite a project for a novice to tackle. The Enco looks new and shiny, and maybe it runs like new, too. I must admit I'm amazed that anybody would buy something like this without doing the most basic homework, but I see it all the time in the music business, so why not here, too?

I recall when I was looking to buy a new precision lathe and wanted to get a good Hardinge clone that I was able to order one locally from a highly regarded service oriented machine tool and metrology business for a few pennies LESS than Reliable got for the ones they had on eBay. Mine is a more recognized brand, and it came with FREE delivery, rigging, and FULL setup by a real service tech, who spent all the time it took to uncrate, clean up and assemble everything, DRO included.

We sometimes sell vintage instruments on eBay, too. Not to get rid of a "dog" but to take advantage of international exposure for something so unusual that we're not likely to have a potential customer among our local clientele.

gundog
11-17-2004, 12:52 PM
It took at least 2 bidders to get it at that price so somewhere out there lies another sucker. Maybe I could buy one and add $300 bucks for a buy it now.
Mike

Happy
11-17-2004, 03:22 PM
those brand new bidders might be tryng the old nigerian cashiers check scam. I know they are doing it to people with buy it now, so why not on a lathe.

The One True Bob
11-17-2004, 03:40 PM
I think that the prices on eBay often represent a warped variation of the "Dollar Auction Game" that is so popular in psychology. Some of the rules are different but the underlying concepts seem to often be the same.

"Too Much Invested" (Teger, 1984) is actually a book on that one idea of the "dollar auction game". What he says is that in the beginning the participants are motivated by personal gain of some sort, but as the bidding continues, winning, punishing their opponent for getting into "this mess", and thinking that the other bidder(s) must be "crazy" to continue at these impossible prices (while rationalizing their own bids as necessary because it was "forced" by the crazy bidding of the others) become the primary motivation.

This book has been used by many to explain the nuclear arms race and other similar instances, and I really think it applies here. The closest I can come to articulating what I think happens is the dynamic of entrapment, defined by Brockner and Rubin (1985) as "a decision making process whereby individuals escalate their commitment to a previously chosen, though failing, course of action in order to justify or 'make good' on prior investments".

Here, once someone has bid, and is "invested" in the idea of the purchase, it suddenly makes more sense to continue. The initial bid becomes the baseline of a new reality. Say that someone bid's $900 on an object; in their mind, that money is already spent. To then bid up to $1500 isn't a $1500 bid -- it's just a small increase of only $600 over the initial bidding commitment (which was, in the person's mind, spent anyway).

Just my thougts. Your mileage may vary.

pgmrdan
11-17-2004, 04:23 PM
The term 'win' has always fascinated me when used in the context of an ebay auction.

In an auction you don't 'win' anything, you buy something. I don't win a candy bar when I go to Target for a candy bar. It's not a game of chance or a sporting event. On ebay I am either willing to pay more than anyone else or I'm not willing to pay more. Simple as that.

To 'win' implies getting something for free or for outperforming your competition.

I think that little 3 letter word has all kinds of twisted, psychological implications.

In any other auction environment do they use the word 'win' the way that is done with ebay?

gundog
11-17-2004, 04:31 PM
I just noticed high bidder has zero transactions under their belt seller will probably get stiffed.
Mike

Tinker2
11-17-2004, 05:38 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Locksmith:

Makes me think of all the customers who try to tell me my business (I'm a locksmith). I seriously doubt that there's even one guy on this board who hasn't had a customer do that to him. How about you?[/B]</font>

What??? You mean the customer is not always right???
Yea right http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Spin Doctor
11-17-2004, 07:04 PM
The only thing this lathe has going for it over a current 9x20 is the 1" bore in the spindle. Locksmith, yah I've been wrong at times and I've even been calld a dumb ass or worse. Of course the people saying that didn't know what they were talking about http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif

nheng
11-17-2004, 07:35 PM
Spin: The spindle bore is a typo. It has an MT3 spindle and the bore is 20mm (0.787").
Think we should we tell the high bidder http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Ebay behavior is just one more indicator of what's going on in this country. A certain lack of common sense in many places ... especially money, value, quality, ...
Den

[This message has been edited by nheng (edited 11-17-2004).]

Evan
11-17-2004, 08:27 PM
Perhaps this is a clue?

Ebay item (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5535890757)

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 11-17-2004).]

rockrat
11-17-2004, 08:47 PM
Wow Evan, if I only had $70,000 dollars I could own a grilled cheese sandwich! I'd slit it with you if you wanted. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by rockrat (edited 11-17-2004).]

charlie coghill
11-17-2004, 08:49 PM
That sandwitch should be worth 5 or 600 dollars. I think I will bid. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Charlie

PHiers
11-17-2004, 08:49 PM
I do believe PT Barnum was right....."A sucker is born every minute" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

------------------
Paul in NE Ohio

JPR
11-17-2004, 09:33 PM
it appears that these machines get a lot of bites due to their size and intial pricing. Then it either becomes "I want it at any price" or "it must be a really good deal, look at all the bids..."

MY best ebay story, I saw a poor condition hydraulic powered winch, the starting price was $200 more than a new one (with free shipping). Also the guy was selling the controls separately for $150. The controls were included with the new one at no charge. All said and done, the used one with shipping would be 50% more than the new one. The real kicker was guy got 4 or 5 bids on it. Go figure.

John

[This message has been edited by JPR (edited 11-17-2004).]

JPR
11-17-2004, 09:41 PM
what's with the $10 shipping on the sandwich?

If I am buying a $70k sandwich, it better be delivered in an armored car. My luck the postal person will be hungry and eat it.

Elninio
11-17-2004, 09:46 PM
You know what? you should start frying like 1000 grilled cheeses and one of them has to look like Jesus or Buddah or sumtin. maybe you can sell it for that price and buy some serious machine tools http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

JCHannum
11-17-2004, 09:49 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JPR:
what's with the $10 shipping on the sandwich?

If I am buying a $70k sandwich, it better be delivered in an armored car. My luck the postal person will be hungry and eat it.</font>

Either that or he would leave it on the doorstep and IBEWgypsie's dog would eat it.

wierdscience
11-17-2004, 10:05 PM
Ten years old,that Veleveta sure holds up good http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I think the lathe is a simple matter of someone not shopping around and having no clue what things actually cost.
I have seen it quite a few times,Ionce saw some Chinese chain hoists sell at auction for three times what they cost new,I know this because I sold them to the company that was being auctioned off!They were busted and broken,ring tested I'm sure and almost all the paint was worn off from the hand chain dragging on the cases,but they still brought $90 each,even though that very day I could have sold them new for $30 and made a 50% profit.

Worst one I saw was a celeberty charity auction where one of the items for bid was a pair of Paris Hiltons underwear,quite common to find them lying around,but they still brought $200 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Alistair Hosie
11-17-2004, 11:02 PM
I think Ibew had a hand in the tatooing of marylyn monroes face (that's who it really is) on that sandwich.C'mon Dave you did it with the lead pipe in the ballroom admit it http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

J Tiers
11-17-2004, 11:41 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
The term 'win' has always fascinated me when used in the context of an ebay auction.

In an auction you don't 'win' anything, you buy something.

To 'win' implies getting something for free or for outperforming your competition.
</font>

One presumes, of course, that the buyer buys for an amount at, or below, their idea of a fair price.

Then, the ITEM is not "won", but the "auction" is. The "win" is that you get it, and pay what you are willing to..

I see nothing wrong with that description.

What I think you are referring to is applying the term to the object. Like someone in a grocery store applying the term "buy" to the act of putting an item in the cart with the intent to take it and perform the transaction later on teh way out.

Technically, the "buy" occurs when the money transfers, of course.....

Semantics are fun, ....sometimes....but it's best not to let them rule you.

Paul Alciatore
11-18-2004, 10:49 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Frank Ford:
I dunno - such shill bidding requires that final bid to come from a real buyer. So, if the bidding is jacked up too high, you'd think it would be logical for reall bidders to take a hike. But they don't.
........
</font>

I don't understand your comment. If the fake bidder, aka the seller, wins the auction, the only requirement that I see is that the E-Bay auction fees be paid. Since there are various methods of payment, such as money orders or even personal checks, E-bay, the other bidders, and the general public has no idea that the actual sale never took place.

Am I missing something?

Paul A.

Al Flipo
11-18-2004, 11:40 AM
It’s not a “Virgin Mary In Grilled Cheese” but an old (in new condition) 60’s gun owner manual, and I must have it damn it, I will henceforth bid 4x the going rate.

Evan
11-18-2004, 12:45 PM
Have a look at the bid history on the grilled cheese...

HTRN
11-18-2004, 06:20 PM
Bidder ID kept private?!

My spider sense is tingling...

HTRN

Lew Hartswick
11-18-2004, 07:33 PM
The one true bob wrote:
The closest I can come to articulating what
I think happens is the dynamic of entrapment,
defined by Brockner and Rubin (1985) as "a decision making
process whereby individuals escalate their commitment to a
previously chosen, though failing, course of action in order
to justify or 'make good' on prior investments".

Is this something like "sending good money after bad"

Originally posted by Locksmith:
Makes me think of all the customers who try to tell me my
business (I'm a locksmith). I seriously doubt that there's
even one guy on this board who hasn't had a customer do that
to him. How about you?[/B]

My statement to those folks is " are you asking me or telling
me" ?


nheng wrote :
Ebay behavior is just one more indicator of what's going on
in this country. A certain lack of common sense in many places
... especially money, value, quality, ...
Den

Yes, "common sense" is a very uncommon thing now-a-days. :-)

,,,lew,,,

laddy
11-18-2004, 07:43 PM
I saw the same thing but it was baloney....

Andrew
11-18-2004, 10:05 PM
Forget working to earn a living, maybe I should get to work on a toaster that will burn a portrait of Jesus onto a slice of bread. I could probably make enough $$$ to retire in no time.