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View Full Version : HSS Cutter for Ball Turner? (Photo)



gkman11
12-14-2004, 11:25 AM
I'm also building a Bedair's ball cuter but think I would like to use a HSS cuter instead of a carbide insert. I have some 5/16" O-1 I could make like photo below and then harden. Would this work. What geometry on cutting edges for Al and brass?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/gkman/PC140015.jpg

Mike Burdick
12-14-2004, 12:54 PM
gkman11,

This might be a little easier - buy a HSS insert already made! This way your Ball-Turner can use both, HSS and carbide.

http://www.arwarnerco.com/hssi.htm

Just a thought...

.RC.
12-14-2004, 03:00 PM
I think if it was me making it for HSS i would extend the upright and then make a square hole through it so a standard size square piece of HSS could be used. You would hold it in place by a grub screw through from the top.

Doc Nickel
12-14-2004, 03:52 PM
GK- Your problem there is that you'd either have to make up a fair supply of "inserts" to have on hand, or be ready to make and harden a new insert every time you have to resharpen.

It would be far easier (if you wanted to go with HSS tools) to either drill a hole and use .200" round tool bits simply held in by a grub screw from the top, or drill and broach square for .250" tool bits.

[b]Mike[/i]- I was wondering about HSS bits in carbide sizes, that's interesting. Odd that they don't have an ordering page or even any sort of list of finished sizes and types available. I assume I'd have to E-mail them for a catalog or price list?

Doc.

Mike Burdick
12-14-2004, 04:16 PM
Doc,

I'm sure there are other places on the 'net that sell them.

Here's another, but I'm sure you can get them cheaper:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1723

Evan
12-14-2004, 04:36 PM
No need to broach a square hole to use square tooling. I just drill a round hole of the correct size and use a grub screw. It works just fine. Just measure the hypotenuse of the square tooling to find the drill size.

aboard_epsilon
12-14-2004, 04:49 PM
the trouble your going to have with the inserts is
the ball turner does not have a progresive feed .......you feed it with a lever ......a bit crude and I'm not sure about this but it may break the carbide inserts.
All the best...mark

Doc Nickel
12-14-2004, 04:57 PM
Mike- Ouch. Seven bucks an insert? That's twice the cost of the same thing in carbide...

Now, I understand that production of the HSS inserts isn't as high a volume as the carbides, but still...

Plus, LMS is basically a low-volume reseller... I'll keep looking. Any other leads?

Doc.

gkman11
12-14-2004, 09:01 PM
aboard_epsilon: thanks for the input. Not sure what you mean by "progressive feed". This ball turner is fed by the cross slide. http://bedair.org/Ball/ball4.html

Evan: sounds like a winner to me. I've made a 5/16" round cutter but hard to keep lever laterally I suppose.

How should the tip be shaped?

aboard_epsilon
12-14-2004, 09:22 PM
see the big handle on it
that's what mean......with it, you're using the machine as if you're turning wood not steal
When you grab hold of that handle you will have to take very small cuts and brace your elbows up against the machine ..so you can feed it gently into the cut.
all the best...mark

ps I'm making one of these Myself, Mine has taper bearing's in it ...I'm looking for a sutable worm drive for it at the moment.

PPS...also if you made it to fit on the lathe with the compound slide removed you can turn bigger balls http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

i didnt realise that at first ...I made mine to fit were the tool-post go's ..ontop of the compound slide lol...when i realised my mistake ..the first one went into the scrap bin.

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 12-14-2004).]

Evan
12-14-2004, 09:38 PM
Main thing about cutting aluminum and to a lesser degree brass is to use high rake and a sharp edge with good clearance. Zero rake tools don't do a good job on aluminum.

aboard_epsilon
12-14-2004, 09:57 PM
This is as far as I got with it.
these pics were taken three months ago
six months after I first started it ..hence the corrosion.....been in the boot of my car which leaks..lol
bearings are from a Ford Fiesta......they will be cleaned and greased before it go's back together.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/ball/upsidebearing2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/ball/upsideapartbear2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/ball/RIGHTWAYUP2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/ball/rightwayapart2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/ball/apart2.jpg

I'm on the look out though for a worm for it ...then I'll finish the bugger.
all the best..mark

zl1byz
12-14-2004, 10:04 PM
Couple of thoughts. I like to keep things simple and i think the suggestion of square HSS tool steel in a round hole with a grub screw would work well. Relativly cheap, grind it up to suit the material. Just need to make sure it ends up at centre hight.

Mark! I have toyed with the idea of a ball cutter with some sort of linkage to the compound slide to control feed. I wonder if anyone has sone this?

John.

aboard_epsilon
12-14-2004, 10:11 PM
john if you leave the compound slide in place , the only thing you would be turning is half inch diameter balls because of clearence problems...and thats on my 1024.
all the best..mark

zl1byz
12-14-2004, 10:40 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by aboard_epsilon:
john if you leave the compound slide in place , the only thing you would be turning is half inch diameter balls because of clearence problems...and thats on my 1024.
all the best..mark</font>

No. I mean mount the ball cutter on the cross slide behind the compound, thats what the linkage is for. My lathe is larger so guess have a bit more real estate to play with. I agree there may be issues, was really putting out a query to see if I could get a bit from someone who had done it. I also agree a worm would be the ultimate. Might be a good excuse to have a go at making one. Will be interested in how your's turns out when your finished, Mark.

John.

Evan
12-15-2004, 12:38 AM
Just using the compound swiveling on the cross slide I can turn balls up to about 1.5" on my SB9. No attachment needed.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-15-2004).]

Ian B
12-15-2004, 01:03 AM
On the top rake to use when turning brass - I've always used zero rake, especially on hard brass. On softer brasses, I'll use a few degrees. Evan's right on the sharpness - the tool needs to have a good edge, otherwise it'll try to skid over the brass.

Brass has always been my favourite metal to turn - sprays of chips and a lovely finish.

Ian

Thrud
12-15-2004, 01:47 AM
Doc
http://www.arwarnerco.com/hssi.htm has HSS and T-15 inserts and they are not that expensive - they really are worth a look, They also have them in Powdered metal T-15 (great for the really bad stuff).

I recommend them to anyone.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-15-2004).]

zl1byz
12-15-2004, 01:01 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ian B:
On the top rake to use when turning brass - I've always used zero rake, especially on hard brass. On softer brasses, I'll use a few degrees. Evan's right on the sharpness - the tool needs to have a good edge, otherwise it'll try to skid over the brass.

Brass has always been my favourite metal to turn - sprays of chips and a lovely finish.

Ian</font>

Yes Ian I agree, but those little chips get every where and man they are sharp. After turning some brass the next job is cleanup so you can pick things up without worrying about a hand full of them lil buggers.

John.

zl1byz
12-15-2004, 01:09 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Just using the compound swiveling on the cross slide I can turn balls up to about 1.5" on my SB9. No attachment needed.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-15-2004).]</font>

Hmm, you must be able to get the tool behind the pivit point? Also means the rest of the compound must be able to swing under the work/chuck etc. I'll have to study this. Good thought Evan.

John.

kap pullen
12-15-2004, 01:15 PM
Another thought;

How about that feed linkage to the tailstock spindle?

Without some feed mechinism you are likely to have dig ins, especially with brass.

Hand feeding dug in in steel for me.

I made a tool for cannon ball molds years ago.

Mounted the radius tool in one slot of the four position turret, and fed it with an old milling attachment in the other slot of the turret.

It now lives under the jap lathe on the bench.

kap

zl1byz
12-15-2004, 01:28 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kap pullen:
Another thought;

How about that feed linkage to the tailstock spindle?

Without some feed mechinism you are likely to have dig ins, especially with brass.

Hand feeding dug in in steel for me.

I made a tool for cannon ball molds years ago.

Mounted the radius tool in one slot of the four position turret, and fed it with an old milling attachment in the other slot of the turret.

It now lives under the jap lathe on the bench.

kap</font>

Thats a good thought, certinly more travel available from the tailstock quill.

John.

aboard_epsilon
12-15-2004, 01:49 PM
Yes ten out of ten Kap ...that's a good idea.
sod the worm, my problems are over. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
The lever would only have to turn the ball turner turret 90 degrees.
I've got about 4 inches of travel on my tailstock barrel ....this should do it .
All the best....mark

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 12-15-2004).]

Evan
12-15-2004, 03:20 PM
These brass ball ends were turned on my SB9 by just swinging the compound. They are about 3/4" dia and I had no trouble at all with it digging in.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/balls2.jpg