BobCAD-CAM

[Randolph]

I vaguely remember this being discussed here before (Actually, everything I remember I remember vaguely!) but what are the prevailing opinions about BobCAD-CAM? I need some sort of CAM system but it can be pretty rudimentary. I have one CNC lathe and will be doing all the programming and operating. And sweeping the chips as well.

I recieved a flyer in the mail today and intend to talk with them but I would like to have more basis for the questions I intend to ask.

[DR]

It's generally considered an overpriced piece of crap, salesforce is aggressive, support is near zero.

My personl experience is with older versions. Two customers got Bobcad bundled with their CNC machines. They didn't want it, gave it to me to try, garbage.

[mochinist]

I use a program at work called FeatureCam, It is pretty expensive though. We have BobCad also and in my opinion it is a piece of crap, I know some of the users of this board and the Pactical Machinist board use it and are happy with it. It has a steep learning curve from my own experience with it. One thing to think about is the complexity of your parts you are planning on doing, I prefer to write my programs for the lathe by hand(FingerCam), lathe programming is pretty easy once you get a little practice under your belt. If you already have a cad program like autocad or similar it is even easier since you can draw the part and layout your moves on the computer.

[JACK MOODY]

I recently purched Bobcad. I do all my drawings in acad and xfer to Bobcad in dxf format. The only problem I have found was to get the tool offset to work. I use the program to operate my new Sherline miniture mill and My hurco cnc. It is much cheaper than buying an updated version of my old EZ FEATURE MILL along with the DONGLE required. It also has a nice engraging package for engraving scanned in items and for making name tags. It contains all of the fonts and post processors that I could ever look for.

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[ibewgypsie]

I bought it less than a year ago. Not very happy with my purchase. ON this machine in the house I get the blue screen of death trying to produce 3 dimensional text. Currently sixty times.. keeping track here.

I called, they tried to sell me more crap, they called my house five to six times a week for months till I got really nasty and had them remove me from thier call lists. I still get about one a month. really annoying people. Kinda like the old salesmen who stick thier foot into your door.

AND join the bobcadcam yahoo group, get penis enlargement emails and porn galore in your inbox.

There are free programs out there. Some in Linux Some in windows. A real good 3d modeler package should be bought before purchasing a cad-cam gcode generator program.

I feel cheated. I have not tried it on the shop machine yet. It is a MOre compatable type machine. This one has a wierd gamer video board in it. Lots of 3d graphic programs use the video memory to store arrays in.

David

[C. Tate]

Junk. Mastercam is good for turning but is expensive for small or home shop. Straight g code is best route for two axis turning it is actually faster and easier than CAM for many turning applications.

C

[John Stevenson]

Randolph,
No one has picked up on your relevant part of the question.
You say you want this for a CNC lathe.

Bobcad cannot do CNC lathe.

Many of the lower end programs can't. They say they will do lathe but in fact what they do is just use two axis of the mill program.
This applies to Vector, Powerstation and most of the others.

Where they come unstck is two fold, the main obvious error is they don't support simple lathe functions like grooving, parting off and screwcutting, either missing them out or relying on the operator to cut and paste extra code into the file, a recipe for disaster.

The not so obvious difference is in the tool offsets. Because these are milling programs they take a fixed offset. In a mill program this would be 1/2 the cutter diameter.
In lathe they use the tip radius. Wrong. On a lathe you have two offsets caused by this tip radius, from X and from Z and they don't take this into account.

Imagine a milling cutter going round a curved part, the cutting edge is always 1/2 the diameter of the tool away from the work wherever it is on the part.
Now imagine a lathe tool tip with a large radius for clarity moving along a fancy curved shape like a candlestick.
The part of the tip cutting is never the same, depending on what part of the curve it's on it uses a different point of contact.
Bobcad and Vector can't take this into account.

There are three affordable lathe programs on the market, some can do mill as well.

Starting low end price wise and working up we have Dolphin.
http://www.dolphin.gb.com/
Concists of Mill and Turn and is a dedicated lathe program, supports all canned lathe cycles.

Next is Mastercam level 1 lathe which is a bit limited in features but mentioned here as it sits in the next price bracket. Very dated nowdays.

Then we have Featurecam.
http://www.enggeo.com/products/FeatureTURN/index.htm
That can be had in lathe format only or lathe and mill. Recently been updated and is very good with things like anto gouging features and 3D solids visuals.

Last we have Mastercam level 3 which is useful but works out the most expensive of the lot for lathe use and is still dated.

My take is it's a toss up between Dolphin and Featurecam.
Featurecam is nicer and better ut far more expensive.
Long short is it's your call but both can and will do the job.

Sorry for the long post but you would be wasting your money with Bbcad or Vector.

John S.

[Randolph]

Here is a perfect example of the value of this board and what it can do for its users. Thanks, fellows, for the information.

Chief among the things I do not need in my shop now that I have mostly retired is another bunch of aggressive sales people aggravating me.

My past experience (past meaning 10 years ago) in CAM systems was with SmartCam and involved programming 3 lathes, a 3-axis and a 5-axis milling machine and a simple 2-axis flame/plasma cutting machine. One of the lathes had live tooling on the turret. The SmartCam worked well but is a trifle expensive for my little shop --- as is MasterCam.

My Haas TL-1 has some good built-in canned cycles and I can probably do with what it offers. I do some fairly complex, if 2-axis can be considered to be complex, profiles for a customer and can program them manually but they are machined from solid material so some roughing features would be helpful.

I appreciate the sharing of experiences with BobCAD-CAM. And thanks, John for the suggested alternatives. There doesn't seem to be much of a problem with this crowd about forthright honesty!!

Randolph

[DR]

John S wrote: "and Vector can't take this into account"

Uh, John, I've been using Vector for lathe work for a couple years. Generally, I find CAM isn't needed with most lathe work, but once in a while you have a contour that can't be handled by a canned cycle. Cutter offsets are handled by G41/42 in the control. Handling cutter offsets in CAM for anything other than crude roughing is not a good idea IMO.

I see the newest Vector has an extensive bunch of lathe stuff, but as I said it's only contouring I use CAM for in the lathes.

Regarding Vector versus Dolphin...Vector has 3D surfacing, including the CAD portion to create the surfaces. Can Dolphin create 3D surfaces? Last time I looked it appeared not.

Check out the latest version of Vector, lots of new stuff. I believe the price is less than Dolphin.

The weak spot I find with Vector is the documentation, but Fred is re-writing that, due out in 1-05.

My needs for CAM are 98% with milling. I did as best a side by side comparison between Dolphin and Vector as I could, I chose Vector.

[John Stevenson]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DR:
John S wrote: "and Vector can't take this into account"

Uh, John, I've been using Vector for lathe work for a couple years. Generally, I find CAM isn't needed with most lathe work, but once in a while you have a contour that can't be handled by a canned cycle. Cutter offsets are handled by G41/42 in the control. Handling cutter offsets in CAM for anything other than crude roughing is not a good idea IMO.

I see the newest Vector has an extensive bunch of lathe stuff, but as I said it's only contouring I use CAM for in the lathes.</font>

DR,
Contouring is OK except for the tool tip offset problem. but there are no screwcutting, groove or part commands in Vector so it is limited on lathe.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Regarding Vector versus Dolphin...Vector has 3D surfacing, including the CAD portion to create the surfaces. Can Dolphin create 3D surfaces? Last time I looked it appeared not. </font>

I was only addressing lathe which was what Randolph asked about.
Dolphin Partmaster Mill and Turn IS only a 2-1/2D program, it does have limited 3D features but if you want full 3D they do a badged up version of Sprutcam which is a full 3D program with waterline and rest machining.



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Check out the latest version of Vector, lots of new stuff. I believe the price is less than Dolphin. </font>

From the web site Vector hobby is $445 with 3D surfacing and Modelling it's $655
Also from the web Dolphin hobby is $595 all in.
Prices are that close you need to make a decision based on features and ease of use more that price.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> The weak spot I find with Vector is the documentation, but Fred is re-writing that, due out in 1-05. </font>

I'll believe that when I see it, Fred has been promising that since V7.0.
Have you read the chapter on lathes? it runs to 7 or 9 pages depending on which version you get. Read some of the replies on the Vector forum and look for Fred's answer in the book, it isn't there.
Fred might well be an expert on these things but it would be nice if all the users got a chance to share in the features.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> My needs for CAM are 98% with milling. I did as best a side by side comparison between Dolphin and Vector as I could, I chose Vector. </font>

I'm in the same boat as you DR, milling wins hands down.
I did try the Vector demo but found it very lacking and not easy to learn.
We had a demo of Dolphin and found it so simple that the program did everything for you. After all isn't that what you are paying it to do.
I do have two copies of Vector here one V8.0 and one early V9.0 They were given to me by people swapping from Vector to Dolphin.
I did try to give these away same as I was given them but Fred had a spat on and said they couldn't be given away as they weren't the latest version.
So in Fred's words you can't give the damn program away http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S.

[GunnySnow]

Hey there,


Stay away from BobCAD unless you like harrasment. These guys are relentless.

Gunny

[C. Tate]

Use straight G-codes unless you have very complicated contours. Use CAD/CAM to figure points on complex contours and then write the code. Bobcad would work fine in that situation.