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BillH
01-17-2005, 01:22 AM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050116/capt.sge.bzj03.160105154111.photo00.photo.default-384x256.jpg
Cant wait to see one at an airport.

matador
01-17-2005, 02:09 AM
is that a new version of the "guppy",those monsters that were built to carry concorde fuselage sections?

------------------
Hans

BillH
01-17-2005, 02:15 AM
No, its the Airbus A380, double decker super jumbo jet, 550 people.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-17-2005, 02:25 AM
I'd love to jump out of one of those.

-3Ph

Flash319
01-17-2005, 11:24 AM
This just means that 550 people die in one shot instead of 300!!! yippy!!! Population control.

toolmakerjim
01-17-2005, 11:37 AM
Flash; thats only if it crashes in a cornfield or in the water.
3 Phase; take your parachute and take a flight maybe youll get you chance, if have acess to an exit...jim

andy_b
01-17-2005, 11:59 AM
i saw that story last night. it is just coming out for test flights to gather data. supposedly one problem was trying to meet the weight goals. i'm not sure i'd want to be the first test pilot in a plane that came off the assembly line a bit on the heavy side (308 tons i believe is the total weight).

andy b.

Stanko
01-17-2005, 12:43 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb:
I'd love to jump out of one of those.

-3Ph</font>

Are you a skydiver? I did a couple of hundred jumps in the 80's. Biggest plane I ever jumped from was a Bristol Freighter ,the last one was removed from service last year. Big sleeve valve engines awesome.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-17-2005, 12:55 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stanko:
Are you a skydiver? I did a couple of hundred jumps in the 80's. Biggest plane I ever jumped from was a Bristol Freighter ,the last one was removed from service last year. Big sleeve valve engines awesome.

</font>

Yea, I've been sport skydiving for about 9 years now. My wife and I skydive together actually. We mostly jump out of Twin Otters, King Airs, and Hot Air Balloons.

Here is a little video clip of me and my wife jumping out of a hot air balloon at Skydive Arizona in Eloy, AZ:

Hot Air Balloon Jump (http://www.gnuxtools.com/skydive/balloon_jump.mpeg)

I have a little Sony DV camera mounted to the side of my helmet.

-3Ph

Evan
01-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Sorry, but as a pilot I hold the view that most pilots do. Anyone who jumps out of a perfectly good functioning aircraft has a wingnut or two loose.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-17-2005, 01:01 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Sorry, but as a pilot I hold the view that most pilots do. Anyone who jumps out of a perfectly good functioning aircraft has a wingnut or two loose.</font>

You've never apparently seen the airplanes we jump out of then http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-3Ph

Sailor
01-17-2005, 01:47 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matador:
is that a new version of the "guppy",those monsters that were built to carry concorde fuselage sections?

</font>

Sailor
01-17-2005, 01:47 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matador:
is that a new version of the "guppy",those monsters that were built to carry concorde fuselage sections?

</font>

Like to have one of those on Floats......

Sandy H
01-17-2005, 02:19 PM
The company I work for is a machine builder for aerospace sheet metal forming. We've gotten a few decent orders from the manufacturers of that beast. It brought about some interesting challenges because the pieces were bigger, allowable scrap was less, etc.

I hope it helps out the airlines eventually, but part of me wonders how a showboat like that will work out if airlines can't make money on the already paid for planes they are flying now.

Sandy.

radish1us
01-17-2005, 03:52 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stanko:
Are you a skydiver? I did a couple of hundred jumps in the 80's. Biggest plane I ever jumped from was a Bristol Freighter ,the last one was removed from service last year. Big sleeve valve engines awesome.

</font>

Bristol Freighter, you sure that you got the name right???????????????????????
Was a "grunt" many years ago and was transported around in them 'things'. Had a another name for 'em tho', we used to call 'em BRISTOL FRIGHTNERS, not sure what kept them airborne, them rackity motors or the flexing/flapping of the wings.The safest thing about them, was they had a door in 'em to allow you to escape.

Ahhhhh, memories!!!!!!!! have to go clean out me undies from just thinkin' about them things.

toolmakerjim
01-17-2005, 04:31 PM
Sandy H;
dont kid yourself. all those planes are leased and the majority of that capital is written off.
these guys arent losing money, they just arent at the target they want. those airlines make their money on freight, passengers are profit pure and simple.
McDonnell~Douglas leased everything they could. and invested in everything else. they were a major stockholder in Caterpillar, funny they would staff the Cat strike and the MDAC-St. Louis strike placing over 20,000 people during the strikes in '95~'96...jim

Rex
01-17-2005, 04:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by matador:
" is that a new version of the "guppy",those monsters that were built to carry concorde fuselage sections?"

"Like to have one of those on Floats......"

Looks to me like it IS a float!
Just needs some outrigger pontoons under the wings and you got a flying boat.
Might want the wing a bit higher, but that's trivial http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-17-2005, 04:57 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sailor:
Like to have one of those on Floats......</font>

That's the last thing we need.. Another Tsunami evertime this thing lands on water.

-3Ph

Boomer
01-17-2005, 05:33 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matador:
is that a new version of the "guppy",those monsters that were built to carry concorde fuselage sections?

</font>

Saturn rocket boosters methinks...
http://www.inventionandtechnology.com/2002/04/guppy.shtml

wierdscience
01-17-2005, 09:02 PM
Airbust huh? Hope they used better glue on the vertical stab this time.

PSD KEN
01-17-2005, 09:09 PM
Isn't it amazing, that the airlines are "making money" and still can file bankruptcy?
Pretty hard to hide $$$$$$$$$ profits and claim megabuck loses.

sch
01-17-2005, 10:21 PM
The 380 is not going to be used much inside
the US. There are very few routes that
need 500 passenger haulouts at a time. Not
that there aren't any but most are too short
a haul for a behemoth like that. It will
wipe out the 747 in the mid and fareast
where they load up huge planeloads and fly
to Europe and US. The demand for this
monster will be for intercontinental and
transoceanic flights. Steve

BillH
01-17-2005, 10:30 PM
Yep, can't wait to see it at JFK.

matador
01-18-2005, 01:09 AM
boomer,i think you're right.i must be getting confused,middle age creeping up http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.the concorde sections were sent by road in oversize semitrailers.(from france to england).

Evan
01-18-2005, 01:12 AM
Apparently it is already presold to at least seven different airlines. I saw a bit on it on Discovery channel tonite. The lower wing skin is made from a single piece of billet aluminum which is vacuum formed under heat. There is some very serious new machining technology used in the production of this beast.

Mike Burdick
01-18-2005, 02:04 AM
Putting some numbers to it:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40728000/gif/_40728825_airbus_a380416.gif

747:
Seating: Typical 416 (max 524)
Cruising speed: 0.855 Mach
Flight range: 13,450km

A380:
Seating: Typical 555 (max 840)
Cruising speed: 0.85 Mach
Flight range: 15,000km

Production A380:
116 firm orders (including 17 freighters) (July 2003). Airbus has forecast a market for approx 1235 airliners of 400 seats and above through to 2020. First deliveries in early 2006.
Estimated cost of each plane: $220m-250m

Some additional information:

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29

_________________________________________



[This message has been edited by Mike Burdick (edited 01-18-2005).]

toolmakerjim
01-18-2005, 03:53 AM
psdken;
the airlines are filing for reorganization so they can rewrite the existing contracts with more profitmaking contracts at the expense of the pilots and stewartess unions.
more union-busting under the "threat" of going bankrupt...jim

PSD KEN
01-18-2005, 09:30 PM
JIM. TWO OR MORE airlines are NOW in bankruptcy.
Being retired from Untied airlines I am reasonably certain that they have been in bankruptcy for two years.
As for busting union contracts, yes indeed, this one of there uppermost desires.
Working on aircraft or components, you sign off everything you touch, but soon, Wal-mart will be paying more, lack of skilled people = crashes.
Years ago, Valu-Jet was the darling of Wall Street, til there crash, resulting from the loading of OXY. Generators, also low priced. (a maintanence concern).

[This message has been edited by PSD KEN (edited 01-18-2005).]

barts
01-18-2005, 11:19 PM
I read a recent WSJ article describing Southwest, which consistently pays higher salaries than its competition but makes money... something about being efficient.

My gut feel is the airlines would do a lot better if they worked with the unions on increasing operational efficiencies rather than doing business as usual and just trying to cut labor costs by reducing salaries.

Of course, that would involve management seeing the workers as part of the solution rather than the problem...

- Bart

BillH
01-18-2005, 11:37 PM
I like Jet Blue, great airline!

toolmakerjim
01-19-2005, 12:13 AM
PSDKen;
i looked last night and more than 2 are in bankruptcy. and a lot of others have gone the way of the wild goose. is this because of bad management or an indicator that the airline business is a bad business to get into?
every time i fly (3 to 6 times a year) i see a crowded airport and crowded airplanes. very few times do i fly where unouccipied seats are open. usally on a flight from nashville to orlando where arrivial is at 11:00 pm.
Orlando's airport has been in the process of a major expansion for the last 3~5 years. is this because airlines are cutting back on service? or are more people are flying? i think the latter, no i know that for a fact. when i take my wife to the airport it is busier.
if busier is an indicator of larger then i must be seeing more people flying and if more people are flying the airlines must be making money somewhere, right?
at Orl. there used to be 10 carriers now there are about 40. do these business' increase to lose money? i dont think so!
im not trying to be a smart ass but when i got to seaworld and see 10+ aircraft sitting to take off, im sorry there is money sitting there, capital that is being leased from someone, salries for pilots and waitstaff, groung support personell, air traffic controllers etc. MONEY MONEY MONEY you cant miss it.
i have signed off on flight hardware and ground support equiptment for many years. today a CNC will produce more parts in a day than 10 men could in a week on conventional equiptment. more money where does it come from and where does it go?
the machinist' i know make a good living and so do the CNC shopwners but none live on the Riveria.
so one must surmise that its a shell game wherein someone is making a LOT of $$$$ and tries to cover everything by periodically filing for re-org until they have bled the cash from the cow then its off to the slaughter house...jim

Evan
01-19-2005, 01:27 AM
I heard on the news tonight that Airbus has presold 149 of those monsters. Mostly for China/North America routes. Incidentally, Vancouver International already has the runways and gates to accomodate them. They had the foresight to build 200ft wide runways in the latest expansion unlike most of Europe and the US which has only 150ft wide runways, not wide enough.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 01-19-2005).]

BillH
01-19-2005, 12:26 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Incidentally, Vancouver International already has the runways and gates to accomodate them. They had the foresight to build 200ft wide runways in the latest expansion unlike most of Europe and the US which has only 150ft wide runways, not wide enough.
</font>

You know, the reason why that airplane looks so stubby was because they tried to design it to work with most airport infrastructure within reason. The tail moment on that airplane is very short, shorter than ideal.

madman
01-19-2005, 12:36 PM
I used to make parts for these things for about twenty years. Contraptions they are its amazing they fly. I prefer to stay the hell out of them after one trip i had years ago. Give me a piper super cub on floats and I feel safer.

wierdscience
01-19-2005, 10:35 PM
The absolute shame is even though it is a huge plane,it will be outfitted with seats from a Ford Festiva http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//mad.gif $600 for a f---ing ticket and I am folded up like a letter for 6 hours.No thanks,I'll take the train.

Evan
01-20-2005, 01:28 AM
BillH,

The AirBus is fly by wire so short coupled makes no difference. I noticed that UPS and FedX are buying ten each in a three deck cargo config.

Spin Doctor
01-20-2005, 06:14 AM
Evan, I think that is probably the future of the airframe in the US/Canada & Europe to a large degree. I have a feeling the insurance carriers are not espicially pleased with this plane. When one crashes (and one will I am sorry to say) the fall out will be brutal. Actaully for carge I am suprised that Brown and Fed/Ex aren't buying Anatov's

Evan
01-20-2005, 10:53 AM
The Antonov has a much higher cost of operation per ton-mile.

BillH
01-20-2005, 01:53 PM
Those Ruskie engines need rebuilds much sooner.

Yankee1
01-20-2005, 02:16 PM
As for me, I'll stick with Boeing.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-20-2005, 02:26 PM
They really should add more rudder surface and authority because that tall fuselage is just begging for some knife edge flight.

-3Ph

Sailor
01-20-2005, 02:30 PM
500 Passengers what are you talking about.

On my last flight to Europe and return on Lufthansa also some kind of Airbus, they paket us so tightly I swear the must have gotten a 1000 of us into that Plane. Old Brunswick Sardine technology pure and simple.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sch:
The 380 is not going to be used much inside
the US. There are very few routes that
need 500 passenger haulouts at a time. Not
that there aren't any but most are too short
a haul for a behemoth like that. It will
wipe out the 747 in the mid and fareast
where they load up huge planeloads and fly
to Europe and US. The demand for this
monster will be for intercontinental and
transoceanic flights. Steve</font>

scooter
01-20-2005, 02:31 PM
...and for you jumpers, there's only two things that fall from the sky

bird**** and fools

crossthreaded
01-20-2005, 02:37 PM
Ha! Ha! The new "Boeing" dreamliner will have the load bearing parts built in China & Japan, software in India & stress analysis in Russia. Oh,& the crew & mechs will all be under constant pressure to work more hours for less money. Do you suppose that will lead to safety & reliabilty? I drive when I can & yeah , I'll take a train too. Too bad! We invented the industry, but the folks running things seem to have a death wish.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-20-2005, 02:50 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by scooter:
...and for you jumpers, there's only two things that fall from the sky

bird**** and fools</font>


You know it! Falling really is for bird**** and fools. Real jumpers fly.

-3Ph

Evan
01-20-2005, 02:56 PM
The A380 can be configured to carry around 850 passengers in all sardine class. Yikes.

3 Phase Lightbulb
01-20-2005, 03:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
Ha! Ha! The new "Boeing" dreamliner will have the load bearing parts built in China & Japan</font>

This is because they want the structural integrity of the airframe to be exceptional and not questionable.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
software in India</font>

This is because they want the software to work.



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
stress analysis in Russia.</font>

This is because they don't want to miss any problems this time.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
Oh,& the crew & mechs will all be under constant pressure to work more hours for less money.</font>

This filters out the lazy and overpaid people that are more concerned about the golf coarse conditions than that conditions of the work they are doing.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
Do you suppose that will lead to safety & reliabilty?</font>

You Betcha...



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by crossthreaded:
I drive when I can & yeah , I'll take a train too. Too bad! We invented the industry, but the folks running things seem to have a death wish. </font>

We invented the industry, but other countries are showing us how to run it properly. I.E: We invented the microprocessor, but Japan knows how to do more things with it than us. We invented the motorcycle(??), but Japan shows us how they should really be made! (Sorry Harley folks, it's just not the same http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Just my opinion of course... My flame suit is on! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-3Ph

Evan
01-20-2005, 03:26 PM
3ph,

I refer you to the topic I just posted, "Must read article".