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View Full Version : OT Lets here it for the shipyard welders, USS San Francisco Damage



Spin Doctor
01-28-2005, 05:53 AM
Photo of the USS San Francisco in dry dock at Guam. The welders and other yard workers at Electric boat or Newport News along with the damage control instructors at Groton did one hell of a job. It's a wonder they didn't loose the boat

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=21183

John Stevenson
01-28-2005, 06:06 AM
I bet that dislodged his masters certificate off the wall.

John S.

torker
01-28-2005, 06:36 AM
What a coincidence! I was just watching the story on CNN...turned the computer on and your thread came up! They must have been lucky not to lose the whole thing.
Russ

andypullen
01-28-2005, 08:00 AM
Thank God they made it to port. That's quite a hit! Says alot for the training of the crew.

I worked on submarine masts several years ago. We had a damaged one come in that had gotten caught on a fishing boat's net. The submarine towed the fishing boat 500 miles before surfacing to see how they were being "tailed"....The skipper had egg on his on that one...

Andy Pullen

[This message has been edited by andypullen (edited 01-28-2005).]

[This message has been edited by andypullen (edited 01-28-2005).]

M1carbine
01-28-2005, 08:55 AM
Here is a veiw from below.

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=21182

Ray

Evan
01-28-2005, 09:18 AM
They claim he hit "uncharted rocks". Say what? They have pretty decent gravity maps of the entire planet.

uncrichie
01-28-2005, 09:23 AM
Evan, I'm glad you added this info on the rocks. For the life of me I couldn't figure out how you would sustain that type of damage by running aground? Oh yea, those uncharted rocks again? They seem to pop up all over? Uncrichie...

hms50
01-28-2005, 09:51 AM
Well, there is a part of my lawn that grows rocks every winter. I hit some of the damn things each spring with the first mowing. Maybe the real big ones grow under water? Sounds right to me...

[This message has been edited by hms50 (edited 01-28-2005).]

AZSORT
01-28-2005, 10:03 AM
Looks more like they hit another sub to me. They would have to have hit some kind of canyon wall to get this blunt damage.

Greg

Lynn Standish
01-28-2005, 10:07 AM
Big blue tarp...... Harbor Freight???

John Stevenson
01-28-2005, 10:14 AM
If they were round the Guam area they could have hit last months import bill from China.

That woud have caused a dent about that size. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S.

[This message has been edited by John Stevenson (edited 01-28-2005).]

topct
01-28-2005, 10:18 AM
Are those bumps under the tarp torpedos?

I first feel sorry for the loss of a crewman and the injuries the others recieved.

I also feel for the Captain. It could mean a loss of command. After years and years of study to have it end like this.

Orrin
01-28-2005, 10:40 AM
I'm surprised the Navy released the pictures. When the Roosevelt ran aground back in the sixties, the Navy stretched canvasses across the bow end of the floating drydock to hide the damage.

Yup, that'll probably be the last time they'll let that captain play boats. I feel sorry for everyone aboard, especially for the deceased, injured and families.

Orrin

Evan
01-28-2005, 10:45 AM
It may not be the Captain's fault although he will get the blame of course.

30° port Seaman! Aye Aye Sir. YOUR OTHER PORT SEAMAN! CRUNCH!!!

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 01-28-2005).]

Happy
01-28-2005, 10:45 AM
The pacific is not charted as well as you would think.

Evan
01-28-2005, 11:03 AM
Happy,

Yes it is. Using laser altimetry from satellite the entire planet has been mapped, especially the oceans. As far back as 1975 GEOS 3 was orbited with a laser altimeter to measure wave height. In 1978 SEASAT was orbited. It operated for 105 days. It began with low resolution scans of the planet that showed amazing detail of the ocean floor. It works because a mascon (mass concentration) such as a seamount creates a local gravitational anomaly that changes the ocean height by a few centimeters. The satellite mysteriously failed soon after it began high resolution mapping.

The most likely reason for this was that it suddenly became apparent that the satellite was able to reveal the operating location of US submarines. Even when running very deep they generate a bow wave on the surface, previously undetectable. But with SEASAT this changed.

Obviously the US has much better technology now and it is also obviously in their interest to know where "uncharted rocks" are. The excuse is ridiculous.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 01-28-2005).]

M1carbine
01-28-2005, 11:54 AM
Evan, It might be possible that there were some new uncharted rocks, as the pacific has had a little sysmic (SP?) and geo thermal activity as late.

Ray

Tinkerer
01-28-2005, 12:12 PM
WOW... that's one hellofa hole. Must of been haulin' butt to do that kind of damage. I think they need some curb feeler's on those as a backup to the scope. As for the Commander... they'll probably "promote" him to a desk and upgrade his pay scale to boot. All joking aside... I feel for those lost or injured in this.

Tim

andy_b
01-28-2005, 12:26 PM
i'm with Ray, a lot of seismic activity lately. plus, you have to figure they weren't just cruising along with sonar and whatever other navigational aids running. i know absolutely nothing about what subs do underwater, or how exactly they do it, but i've seen The Hunt For Red October, and i'm guessing the military does way more crazy stuff than that. plus, who knows who they were chasing or being chased by.

as for the damage, i still can't believe that. i would've thought the sub would've popped open like an overheated soda can. i wonder what you think when you're on a sub and smash into a mountain?

andy b.

Evan
01-28-2005, 12:43 PM
Earthquakes don't produce new underwater mountains, volcanos do. There hasn't been any such activity near Guam in a long time. Even if there was it would be well reported as it would be a major event. The recent major seismic activity wasn't in the Pacific anyway, it was in the Indian ocean.

Boomer
01-28-2005, 12:46 PM
Ooops!

[This message has been edited by Boomer (edited 01-28-2005).]

Boomer
01-28-2005, 12:54 PM
Or...
http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Buff_012005-P1,00.html

Or
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1321233/posts

tattoomike68
01-28-2005, 01:21 PM
that Captain will be lucky to get to pilot a cart full of pots and pans around the galley.

you run aground or hit another ship you can plan on being done.

Evan
01-28-2005, 01:23 PM
That article confirms what I have said. If they didn't have that seamount on their charts it was due to incompetence or other equally stupid mismanagement.

"Scientists have proven that features, on a map of the ocean bottom-terrain created via satellite altimetry, coincide very accurately with known features in seafloor topography mapped by conventional depth-sounding sonar."

and

"And it turns out, according to a civilian geophysicist interviewed in the New York Times on 15 January, that there is indeed some indication of a seamount at the crash site in radar altimetry obtained in the mid-1980s. The data, though, was described as having a large margin of error and being too vague. I would not presume to disagree with this caveat. I would say that, at a minimum, there ought to have been a notation on the San Francisco's charts, last updated in 1989, to the effect of "Here there be possible uncharted seamounts" -- and there wasn't. Furthermore, given progress since the mid-'80s in so many aspects of aerospace and radar engineering, downlink baud rates, and supercomputer speeds, data obtained much more recently (by GFO?) might show the location of that seamount with no ambiguity."

Last updated in 1989???? That is hard to believe.

BillH
01-28-2005, 01:32 PM
To put Evans theory to rest, Yes, that rock was charted, HOWEVER the maps onboard the submarine were not up to date. I dont believe the captain will be blamed.

Evan
01-28-2005, 01:55 PM
Bill, the captain is always responsible except for enemy action.

Spin Doctor
01-28-2005, 04:57 PM
Am I the only one that noticed that just aft of the damaged sonar dome the hull appears to of budged at least on the top side

IOWOLF
01-28-2005, 05:28 PM
yes, Evan, Your correct again.

JeffG
01-28-2005, 05:35 PM
Evan,

Don't know about military cartography, but the Coast Guard has something like 70,000 changes pending on US charts - not enough budget to keep up with all the new data, and probably not enough data on coastal changes to keep up with reality.

Jeff Greenblatt

toolmakerjim
01-28-2005, 06:17 PM
rest assured the captain of this sub will exit with a early retirement and a reduction in rank.
the captain is God on any ship and as such is responsible for everything.
Godspeed be with the crewmember...jim

madman
01-28-2005, 06:25 PM
I guess once you get one of those babys on Auto pilot its Budweiser Time. At least thats how the Canadian Navy does it. Have a Brew and chill out. And Canada has a enviable Reputation in the world as Soldiers and Peacekeepers. If I remember correctly didnt we burn down the White House a long time ago. It was all a mistake though i betcha. Too many Pints and too much time on our hands. Seriously Im very glad that that sub made it to dry dock. My sincerest compliments to Captain and Crew in what was probably there finest hour.

gunsmith
01-28-2005, 06:27 PM
Hi guys. As a Canadian we have a reputation for buying subs like this and giving them to our guys to test there metal . We don't expect any warntees with it. Is there a chance you might sell her as is??? She is better that what we have at the moment even in her present condition. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

zl1byz
01-28-2005, 08:17 PM
Yes its sad there was injury and loss of life. As for the boat, it can be fixed, no big deal. I think Russ might have shot down there to weld er up. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John.

[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 01-28-2005).]

zl1byz
01-28-2005, 08:18 PM
Bugger http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John


[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 01-28-2005).]

torker
01-28-2005, 08:42 PM
John...I was all set to zip down and glue er up for them but I couln't find my damn hip waders http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Russ
BTW...Can us Canucks PLEASE have that sub now? We need one that isn't burnt to a crisp http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

wierdscience
01-28-2005, 10:04 PM
It didn't hit another boat or sub,if it did we wouldn't know about it,niether would anyone else.
It could have been a collision with a seamount,or it could have been a torpedo accident(long history of those)

Interestingly though ALL navigation charts for that area of the Pacific and the Indian ocean are now in question.The Indian Navy along with Australia and Japan are all doing sonar surveys since the recent activity.

As to the idea that there hasn't been any activity in that part of the Pacific recently ,remember there wasn't any in the Indian ocean either....until Jan,2005.

Couple that with the fact that the last undersea volcano to appear did so in less than 24 hours.

[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 01-28-2005).]

zl1byz
01-28-2005, 10:12 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by torker:
John...I was all set to zip down and glue er up for them but I couln't find my damn hip waders http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Russ
BTW...Can us Canucks PLEASE have that sub now? We need one that isn't burnt to a crisp http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>

Hehe Russ. Have you Canucks been knocking your subs about too? Seems to go with the teritory.

John.

.RC.
01-28-2005, 10:13 PM
Hey Torker, We could sell you some of our Collin's class subs...biggest diesel subs made...reported to be the noisest sub ever made as well....

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s32915.htm

I also heard it was originally powered by a computer no more powerful than a 386...

Ahh well taxpayers money can fix anything

torker
01-28-2005, 10:56 PM
Hahahaha...we don't get a chance to knock ours around...they're in drydock for repairs most of the time.
Ringer..If those subs are bad enough...we WILL buy them http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Russ

Alan in Oz
01-29-2005, 12:41 AM
The Australian Navy has for many years been doing Costal and near costal airborne laser sub surface mapping. A number of years ago the development company tried to sell / license the technology to the USA but beacuse it was NIH no go.

Spin Doctor
01-30-2005, 08:33 AM
Some better shots

http://www.combatindex.com/ssn711_drydock_02.jpg
http://www.combatindex.com/ssn711_drydock_03.jpg

wierdscience
01-30-2005, 09:44 AM
No damage to the pressure hull,explains why they didn't lose it.