Recipe for Kasenit

[Ian B]

I came across this on Yahoo Answers:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126203219AA5DQbx

Anyone know if this is correct, or know a better recipe?

Thanks,

Ian

[mechanicalmagic]

Well, according to the MSDS on Kasenit's web site that recipe is not the same. Kasenit lists the main ingredient as Sodium Ferrocyanide, Na4 Fe(CN)6.

Now, I have no idea if the recipe given will do the job better, or not at all.

Kasenit is only $10 a pound here, lasts a long time for a home shop.
Dave

[ptjw7uk]

I thought that the main problem with case hardening is keeping oxygen away from the material while it is cooking in the compound so the packing in a box and sealing it are more important than the actual ingrediants.
Peter

[Evan]

Kasenite is straight sodium ferrocyanide. It produces a carbo-nitride case. Sodium ferrocyanide is available as a food grade additive used as an anti caking agent in table salt but you would probably have to buy a 40 kilo bag if you can find a supplier. It goes by the name yellow prussiate of soda so as not to scare people.

The Yahoo answer is mostly bunk as it takes a lot longer to harden something by merely exposing it to charcoal or other organic carbon containing substances. It must be done in an oxygen free atmosphere to prevent oxidation of the steel.

The current price of Sodium Ferrocyanide is about $900 per metric tonne or about 41 cents per pound FOB China, minimum order two tonnes.

[miker]

Import Experts

Maybe I could get this outfit to arrange a couple of Tons for me!

http://livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/12/NSW_make_87_million_cocaine_haul

Rgds

[chengdave2003]

Recipe for Kasenit

Just out of curiosity, does case hardening add any size to the part being hardened?

Dave Young

[dalee100]

Hi,

No it won't change a parts size. But depending on the case harden method used, it can and will warp the be-jeezus out of parts.

dalee

[mochinist]

Yeah it will change the parts size, usually not a noticeable amount unless you are working to tenths thoughs. Holes will be smaller, I usually tap parts that are going to be case hardened with an oversize tap.

[chengdave2003]

Recipe for Kasenit

Thanks for the info. I had bought a can of Kasenit, but haven't used it yet....

Dave

[Peter S]

FYI, the toolroom I worked in did its own heat treating - the case hardening was done in an electric furnace, using various sized lidded boxes (made from a special stainless that didn't corrode at high temperature). There was no special atmosphere required, but the parts were invariably ground all over after heat treatment. The parts were put in the boxes and packed with a type of small chip. I guess they were carbon-rich and obtainable from whoever supplies heat treaters. There are other ways of casing as well - I have seen gas atmosphere furnaces and also there are salt baths. I guess Kasenit is a home-handy man type of method?

BTW, we used steel recommended for case hardening, e.g. I recall Balfour SD 16 and SD 51, or Atlas Impacto or Super Impacto (8620). With these alloy steels you can get a hard case and a very strong core as well, but a few steps are required in the process. Other times we used nitriding for when distortion was a problem, and parts went directly from heat treatment into use.

[oldtimer74]

Hi all.
Anyone care to sell me a couple of ounces of Kasenit? It is over £20 for a 1 lb tin in the UK.
Pat

[Evan]

I suggest you talk to your local chemist and see if he can order some for you (yellow prussiate of soda ). It isn't restricted in any way as it is an approved food additive. Even in food grade it should be cheaper than £20 per lb.

[camdigger]

FYI, the toolroom I worked in did its own heat treating - the case hardening was done in an electric furnace, using various sized lidded boxes (made from a special stainless that didn't corrode at high temperature). There was no special atmosphere required, but the parts were invariably ground all over after heat treatment. The parts were put in the boxes and packed with a type of small chip. I guess they were carbon-rich and obtainable from whoever supplies heat treaters. There are other ways of casing as well - I have seen gas atmosphere furnaces and also there are salt baths. I guess Kasenit is a home-handy man type of method?

The process you describe is "carbon pack" case hardening. The chips (or pack) are largely as close to elemental carbon as possible (often charcoal, charred leather, cooked bonemeal, cooked fruit pits, etc are pack ingredients for home recipes) and there are usually a few activators included like sodium bicarb? washing soda or the like to speed up the absorption of the carbon. The sealed SS box is soaked at temperature (red/orange/yellow heat) for a length of time (measured in #s of hours) which in turn determines the depth of the "case". The SS box may also include an oxygen scavenger to tie up the oxygen out of what little air might be in the pack to help with scaling issues.

Kasenit is a hobby/gunsmith substitute and the "case" is typically thinner than a long soak pack carburizing "case" would be as the soak times are usually far shorter.

After carburizing via a pack or paint on Kasenit, there are heat treat routines to refine grain structure, quench, and temper before put into service. HSMers may do some or all of the steps. Industry usually doesn't skip steps after pack hardening because as the case is thickening, the grain structure inside the workpiece is changing too.

[gwilson]

I believe case hardening with straight charcoal,like aquarium charcoal ill produce a much greater depth of penetration than Kasenit.

I got penetration of more than 1/32",which was all I wanted(the parts were as thin as 3/32" in places) using bone meal. It was in a covered graphite crucible over an open forge fire. Took about 1 hour,if I recall correctly.

The parts were for an 18th.C. type treadle lathe I was making things like centers for.

I checked the depth by also packing some large nails in the crucible. I'd pull out one,clamp it in a vise and break it till I got the depth I wanted.

[lazlo]

I believe case hardening with straight charcoal,like aquarium charcoal ill produce a much greater depth of penetration than Kasenit.

Glenn, i think it was you that said that aquarium charcoal was burnt monkey bones? Does bone char have any advantage over just pure carbon for case hardening (other than the rainbow colors)?

We've often discussed the barium carbonate that's described as a chemical accelerator in the Bullseye mixture in Guy Lautard's book. I'm curious if that would increase the case depth?