The new "Seig" X3 mill is in - almost

[oldtiffie]

Many will remember (how could they forget!!) that I have said often enough recently that I bought a new "Seig" X3 mill and that is has sat in its original preservative coating for some time. Well, I eventually got it cleaned up and onto its bench and checked out. It runs fine. All the working parts are just right. It is very well made. I have yet to put it to work. One step at a time is good going.

These are the details of the X3:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=M153

I bought it in preference to the "Seig" Super X3:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=M155

The X3 is to be retro-fitted with a CNC kit to run under Mach3. I was advised that I did not need the "Z" (column) fine feed or the "Z" DRO. I was also advised that I would not need the tilting head either as the CNC would handle all of those issues. That suited me as I don't like tilting heads and I have plenty of tilting tables and tilting vises. But in retrospect I will install the DRO as designed by John Stevenson and as available at Arc Eurotrade (UK) at:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalo...-X3-Small-Mill

The retro-CNC kit to be fitted is at:
http://www.cnckits.com.au/index.html

I have the "Level 3" kit on order.
http://www.cnckits.com.au/details.html#Kits

Images are at:
http://www.cnckits.com.au/images.html

I will not be ready to install the CNC kit for at least another 2 months. I have agreed to delay delivery.

The main advantage of this supplier in OZ is that he developed the package and makes (CNC - of course!!) all the pieces that need to be made as well as providing excellent support - and he is only about 2 hours drive from here.

I have to "get my finger out" and swat up again on my CAD system and Machs - lots to do!! And there is lots more than that that I have to catch up on. I really don't know if my ar$e is (still?) pointing South or whether it was punched, bored, reamed or drilled!!!

But back to the mill - from delivery to bench:

Here it is on the lifting bench in my car-port - still in its preservative just after it was unpacked/uncrated - with a 6" rotab and a 1 metre (40") rule for appreciation of scale (there is lots of room and "real estate" for a small mill):

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SeigX3_3.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SeigX3_4.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SeigX3_5.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SeigX3_7.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SeigX3_8.jpg

And here it is installed on its new bench:




The spindle is beautiful - I can't see any "out of alignment " in it on a 0.01mm (0.0004") Dial Test Indicator (DIR).

That drill chuck that came with it (1/2") has a piece of 5/16" precision ground HSS rod in it. The Total Indicated Run-outs (TIR's) were: 0.03mm (0.0012") at the chuck (zero "stick-out") and 0.06mm (0.0024") at 50mm (2") "stick-out". Not too bad at all.

The "X" and "Y" lead-screws are 2mm (0.080") pitch calibrated at 0.02mm (0.0008"). The "Z" lead-screw is 1mm (0.04") pitch calibrated at 0.01mm (0.0004"). That's as good as my Tool & Cutter and Surface grinders!!.

It is all very smooth.

The speed control is "tops" with plenty of torque even way down low at about 40PRM (no "typo").

I will fit "X" and "Y" and "Z" DRO's so that I can see where the table is as opposed to where its supposed to be as shown on the Mach/CNC screen. CNC only relies on all the pulses sent being actioned and that there is no mechanical "lag", "slip" or "wind-up" as opposed to servo - because of its monitoring and "feed-back" tells you/me where the table actually is. The DRO's will, in effect, simulate/emulate a servo read-out.

It can stay as it is for a while yet as I will not even start cutting with it for a couple of months yet as I have other obligations and things to catch up on.

I am very impressed and happy with it.

My (round column) mill on my "3-in-1" and my (square/dove-tail) HF-45 mill both have MT3 spindles and so I have no additional tool costs in that regard. Most other milling tools will also fit right in.

There is plenty of natural as well as artificial (fluorescent) lighting in the shop as well. I just open the 5.1metre (16'-9") wide x 2.1 metre (6'-10") roller shutter door and away I go. The natural light is indirect as it comes in from the 6.6m (21'-7") wide x 4.8m (15'-8") wide x 7.2m (23'-8")carport which faces NW and our prevailing weather comes from NW>W>SW with the afternoon sun in the N>W.

Should I need to strip and re-assemble and re-set the mill, there is an excellent tutorial at:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...on%20Guide.pdf

There is a good forum at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/X_Series_Mills/

I have to say that the preparation and preservation by "Seig" was first-class. Everything was oiled and in plastic bags. There was nothing for me to do. I don't mean to bang the "how good is China" drum, but in all fairness it is that good in this instance - just as John Stevenson said it was. If I'd found any faults I'd have posted it here as I try to be fair and imartial irrespective of source whether it be from Asia, the US or OZ.

If anyone is to blame for this it has to be John Stevenson who started my interest in this mill and CNC. He has been very patient with me.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank John and lazlo for their expertise and guidance in this as I owe them a lot of gratitude and appreciation for their advice.

[Thomas Staubo]

I have told you before, and I am telling you again.
The company is named "Sieg" not "Seig".


Remember "Sieg", as in Sieg Heil.



Nice mill, by the way. I have been thinking of buying one for a long time.
How tall is it with the head at its highest?


.

[Smokedaddy]

Interesting,

I was just searching the forums here last night trying to find out the latest news on the X3 via a few postins from John. Question, are these available in the US, including the retro-kits?

And ... how about the KX3-MACH Hobby CNC Mill that I see at HF? Are these vapor ware?

Regards,
-SD:

[lazlo]

Originally Posted by Smokedaddy

are these available in the US, including the retro-kits?

And ... how about the KX3-MACH Hobby CNC Mill that I see at HF? Are these vapor ware?:

Are you asking if the X3 itself is available in the US? They've been available here for several years -- Grizzly, Travers, even Harbor Freight carries them.

I didn't know Harbor Freight is carrying the KX3. $5,000 is putting it very close to Tormach prices, although the shipping may be less. Is there anyway to apply the Harbor Freight 15% retail coupon?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=66051

[macona]

Those ball screws they use in the kit are about the worst ones you can get. No preload, low accuracy, rolled screws.

The HF is still less than half of the Tormach. I wish they would use servos and not steppers... Oh well.

[lazlo]

Originally Posted by macona

Those ball screws they use in the kit are about the worst ones you can get. No preload, low accuracy, rolled screws.

Are you talking about Tiffie's kit, or the ballscrews on the KX3?

The HF is still less than half of the Tormach. I wish they would use servos and not steppers... Oh well.

I thought a Tormach was $6800?

[macona]

By the time you add everything it gets to the 10K area. $7480 base machine, almost $1k for the stand, and then there are all the other goodies...

[macona]

I was talking about the screws in the kit. From the site:

- Thomson 16mm rolled leadscrew

- Thomsom ball nuts 0.002' to 0.013" rated backlash ( prototype shows ~0.004")

Yuck... Backlash is one thing. There is also screw drunkenness. Those screws were never intended for an application like this. I would get some good ground screws off ebay.

[oldtiffie]

I will try to answer several questions or comments in one go here.

Originally Posted by Thomas Staubo

I have told you before, and I am telling you again.
The company is named "Sieg" not "Seig".

Remember "Sieg", as in Sieg Heil.

Nice mill, by the way. I have been thinking of buying one for a long time.
How tall is it with the head at its highest?

.

Thanks Thomas.

YES SIR!!!

(Admonishment with wrist-slap noted - Wha-a--a--a, sob, sniffle etc. - you growled at me!!! Wha-a-a--a).

I am developing a sieg(e) mentality here!!!

Here are a few more pics regarding sizes - using a 1 metre Carpenters folding rule - and general arrangement in my shop:

Front to back (handle included) ~ 650mm (21.6"):
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SeigX3_11.jpg

Overall height (under-side of adjusting feet to top of quill cover on head) ~ 1,000mm (39.4"):
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SeigX3_12.jpg

Clear height from mill table to under-side of quill (no tools mounted) ~ 400mm (15.75"):
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SeigX3_13.jpg

On its new bench with new tool cabinet at right side/end of bench:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../SeigX3_14.jpg

I must admit that I could soon get sick of the 1mm/rev "Z" handle feed - but its a good compromise.

Thanks macona and lazlo.

Yes, I queried those ball-screws with the developer and he assures me that there are other/better options with ground and pre-loaded ball-screws on the way. He also tells me that despite the back-lash the ones he has had or selected are pretty good as he has used them to make all his stuff and it worked well.

If I have to pay the difference for new ground pre-loaded ball-screws - I will do it - no problems.

Comments and advice are appreciated.

As said previously, the X3 will stay as it it is - unused - for at least a couple of months while I get on with other things that I need to address. I just wanted to get the bench assembled and stiffened (MIG welded) and the machines off the floor an onto it (the bench).

As a "teaser" - a hint is in pics in this post - I will post a new thread shortly on another acquisition - its got just about everything - and any extras are readily made or adapted.

Here is the remote control that comes with the kit:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...asPresent1.jpg

[S_J_H]

The thompson rolled screws are fine for an X3. I have them on my x3 as well as my cnc lathe I built and have used them on several other machines.
Plenty accurate IMO unless you are making space shuttle parts or perhaps a larger machine with a lot of travel. But at 15" x travel for a x3 they are plenty good.
You'll see more issues with head deflection than you'll see with screw pitch error. They do need double spring loaded nuts though IMHO. A single standard thomson nut is a bit to sloppy IMO for decent cnc type work. Even .004" is to much backlash for the table axis IMO.
A good 100lbs of preload between the 2 nuts works real well with the 5/8" .2 pitch screws and the x3. Depending on the table stiction and bearing setup, backlash should be 0 to .0007" max with dual nuts.

Steve