operating spin indexer...

[David Rose]

I know this is simple to most of you guys, but... I haven't "got it" yet. I just bought one of the cheapie WT spin indexers to (potentially) do some barrel fluting and decorations on 1911 parts. Or at least I hope to learn the operation from this tool.

I realize that the tool may not have the precision that I need, but I figured starting here, there is little to lose. Of course , I bought one of the Chinese models to play with. No tailstock or anything other than a couple of 5-C collets. And "naturally" the "precision" collet won't thread on.

The plate has 36 holes, thus 10 degrees each. The housing has 10 holes, so I figure one degree each. But how to index the two sets of holes?

If "Plate #0" is indexed with "housing #1" as 0, do you move the "Plate #1 to "housing #2 to move 1 degree? That is what seems logical. Not even a sheet in Chinese for instructions...

Thanks,

David

[oldtiffie]

I know this is simple to most of you guys, but... I haven't "got it" yet. I just bought one of the cheapie WT spin indexers to (potentially) do some barrel fluting and decorations on 1911 parts. Or at least I hope to learn the operation from this tool.

I realize that the tool may not have the precision that I need, but I figured starting here, there is little to lose. Of course , I bought one of the Chinese models to play with. No tailstock or anything other than a couple of 5-C collets. And "naturally" the "precision" collet won't thread on.

The plate has 36 holes, thus 10 degrees each. The housing has 10 holes, so I figure one degree each. But how to index the two sets of holes?

If "Plate #0" is indexed with "housing #1" as 0, do you move the "Plate #1 to "housing #2 to move 1 degree? That is what seems logical. Not even a sheet in Chinese for instructions...

Thanks,

David

David,

I would just about bet that this is a vernier set up for 1 degree intervals.

If it is a circular vernier it will operate on the same principal as the vernier on a vernier protractor.

Any chance of putting a pic or two up as a post on this thread and I'll see what I can do.

FWIW, with practice, you can "eye-in" to a degree (or better) over that 10 degrees - just as you break 1/16ths on a rule down to 32nds., 64ths., and even to 5 "thou" (about 1/3 of 1/64 which is about 16 "thou"). You will be
surprised at how well it works.

I once worked with a Leading Hand in the milling section and he could split the etched line on his rule - "easy" (HE said) but he was right - every time. (won him quite a few beers at "booze-ups" and as a "party trick". 50 years later and I still can't do it.

Marv Klotz has an excellent article on verniers in a utility on his web site at:
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/

I seem to be "flick-passing" a lot of stuff to Marv's site lately - I hope he doesn't mind or get pee-ed off with it/me - but you will be glad you had a look at least.

[BadDog]

If I recall correctly, the "0" on the housing indexes by 10* with each wheel hole. Leave the pin there for 10* increments. To get an 11* increment, move the wheel till the "0" housing hole lines up with the next hole, then move the pin the housing "1" hole, and move the plate just a fuzz further till it lines up, now you have 11* from the last hole. Extrapolate from there for continued indexing. I got/used mine some months ago, and that's what I recall. If the details aren't exact, the rough mechanics should put you on the right path.

Also beware that the cheap import spindex often has only a press fit on the wheel. This was observed on this site recently I believe. In any case, you need to be careful with heavy cuts since it can shift the ring. Options include using a locker like Loctite, spotting, pining, or some other positive fixture if you have one with that problem.

[David Rose]

Thanks for the info. All I could find on Marv's site though was for a divinding head, which operates probably on the same principle but with different technique. Yep! The human eye is amazing... sometimes. But in this case, I have a mechanism that I think will cut things closer than I can see. I'm just trying to figure out how to set it.

I've not yet figured out how to post a pic on this site. I'll work on that.

David

David,

I would just about bet that this is a vernier set up for 1 degree intervals.

If it is a circular vernier it will operate on the same principal as the vernier on a vernier protractor.

Any chance of putting a pic or two up as a post on this thread and I'll see what I can do.

FWIW, with practice, you can "eye-in" to a degree (or better) over that 10 degrees - just as you break 1/16ths on a rule down to 32nds., 64ths., and even to 5 "thou" (about 1/3 of 1/64 which is about 16 "thou"). You will be
surprised at how well it works.

I once worked with a Leading Hand in the milling section and he could split the etched line on his rule - "easy" (HE said) but he was right - every time. (won him quite a few beers at "booze-ups" and as a "party trick". 50 years later and I still can't do it.

Marv Klotz has an excellent article on verniers in a utility on his web site at:
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/

I seem to be "flick-passing" a lot of stuff to Marv's site lately - I hope he doesn't mind or get pee-ed off with it/me - but you will be glad you had a look at least.

[David Rose]

BadDog,

I've noticed that something will have to be tightened up or reworked to hold a part and setting tightly. It is the ultimate cheapie spindex. I just want to figure out how it is suppose to work before I start making modifications.

You are right on the first half of your description. It is fairly obvious that with 36 holes in the plate, each is 10*. If I rotate the "0" hole in the plate to the next hole in the base, it indexes "about" a full 10*. Notice the "about". I suspect that it is 9*, but it might be 11*. It does operate like a vernier like oldtiffie said. Oh, for a simple photo example. But I guess that page is part of the "savings", huh?

The closest two hole alignment appears to be the slight movement to get both of the next two holes aligned. I'm just not sure. I suspect that lots of folks here will know the proper, simple operation. If one will just have compassion...

Thanks,

David

If I recall correctly, the "0" on the housing indexes by 10* with each wheel hole. Leave the pin there for 10* increments. To get an 11* increment, move the wheel till the "0" housing hole lines up with the next hole, then move the pin the housing "1" hole, and move the plate just a fuzz further till it lines up, now you have 11* from the last hole. Extrapolate from there for continued indexing. I got/used mine some months ago, and that's what I recall. If the details aren't exact, the rough mechanics should put you on the right path.

Also beware that the cheap import spindex often has only a press fit on the wheel. This was observed on this site recently I believe. In any case, you need to be careful with heavy cuts since it can shift the ring. Options include using a locker like Loctite, spotting, pining, or some other positive fixture if you have one with that problem.

[John Stevenson]

Edit because what I posted was a lot of crap.

See post lower down with 4 setup pics.

.

[oldtiffie]

Thanks for the info. All I could find on Marv's site though was for a divinding head, which operates probably on the same principle but with different technique. Yep! The human eye is amazing... sometimes. But in this case, I have a mechanism that I think will cut things closer than I can see. I'm just trying to figure out how to set it.

I've not yet figured out how to post a pic on this site. I'll work on that.

David

Sorry about that David - I re-checked and its there alright:
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklo...le/vernier.zip

That file has an executable file; a data file and a text file (vernier.txt I think it is).

I have a look at the text file at least - it explains the "ins and outs" of verniers very well and is right on your application.

Now when you do the "fix-up" on the one you've got you might be able to modify it to be accurate to 1 degree - just like the one John Stevenson has put on the thread.

If you want to make this a better product and a challenge - this might just be the way to go.

[David Rose]

Ah! Sir John, thank you!

We are on the same page. That is the correct tool.

Sorry that I got the markings incorrect. The tool is in the shop, and I am not. I'm sure that you are correct.

I have read vernier calipers much of my life, before the analog ones became affordable. But it is hard to relate that to this tool for me for some reason.

From what you are saying, it would seem that 36 and V1 would give one degree if 36 and V0 is 0. But that is not the case. It is closer to 10 degrees. That is what is puzzling me. Considering 36 and V0 to be 0, how do you advance one degree?

I think if I can ever get that soaked into my head, I will be set. I'm sorry to be so dense, but I truly appreciate the help.

Thanks so much,

David

First off lets get the terminology right so we are both on the same page.

We have an index ring, that the big circular plate with 36 holes in it and we have the Vernier scale on the body of the indexer maker from 0 to 9



There is no zero on the index ring it goes from 36 to 1
In reality these should be marked 360 and 10 but space precludes the extra zero. The reason there is no zero is that 360 and 0 are one and the same.

The pin needs to be in the 0 vernier [ now called V ] position and when that's in 36 it's at zero.
Now if you move the pin [ still in V0 ] to 1 on the index plate it will have moved 10 degrees.

If you go V0 to 4 it will have moved to 40 degrees.
Now if you move the pin from V0 to V5 and go into the 4 on the index circle you have gone 40 degrees plus 5 = 45 degrees.

This is the reason the vernier only goes to 9, after say 4 on the index circle and V9 you get 49 degrees. To move one further degree you go back to V0 and hole 5 to get 50 degrees.

To work in divisions your number needs to be divisible into 360 so 8 divisions is every 45 degrees whereas 7 isn't divisible.

.

[oldtiffie]

First off lets get the terminology right so we are both on the same page.

We have an index ring, that the big circular plate with 36 holes in it and we have the Vernier scale on the body of the indexer maker from 0 to 9
........................................
.......................................


.

John,
you have mail.

[David Rose]

Oook. I missed that one. He's got quite a few files listed there. I downloaded it and will look at it tomorrow.

Thank you much!

David

Sorry about that David - I re-checked and its there alright:
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklo...le/vernier.zip

That file has an executable file; a data file and a text file (vernier.txt I think it is).

I have a look at the text file at least - it explains the "ins and outs" of verniers very well and is right on your application.

Now when you do the "fix-up" on the one you've got you might be able to modify it to be accurate to 1 degree - just like the one John Stevenson has put on the thread.

If you want to make this a better product and a challenge - this might just be the way to go.