OT - abiotic production of petroleum

[andy_b]

since everyone here loves OT posts, i have one.
i was just emailed some info on the abiotic production of petroleum. basically, bacteria live in some ooze deep below the earth's surface and use heat and helium to make petroleum, thus actually producing an almost never-ending supply. i think it's a big bunch of crap. anyone hear know anything about it?

andy b.

[Lew Hartswick]

Sounds like some one is on a real "trip". :-)
...lew...

[retusaf99]

Sounds like the real deal to me! Send me $500 and I'll send you an envelope of the requisite bacteria. Just plant them in your backyard.

Doug

[Oldbrock]

Doug, I don't know where you are getting them from because I have the market cornered and am selling them for $1000.00 and ounce. Am taking orders as I type. GET YOURS TODAY. Minimum order 5 oz. Peter

[Evan]

Firstly, if bacteria are making it it isn't abiotic. Secondly, to synthesize compounds of a higher energy level than the constituents you need energy. There is a catch though. Not only do you need energy you need an energy slope or difference. Making a new compound that has more energy than the ingredients is an endothermic reaction. That means it absorbs energy from the surroundings. In general, for such compounds to be stable they must be able to cool which is a part of an endothermic reaction. In an environment such as deep in the Earth's crust the energy density is both very uniform and high. There is no heat sink available in the range of temperatures required for the synthesis of petroleum compounds.

There are of course other little clues that the abiotic genesis speculation conveniently ignores. The reason that petroleum is called "fossil fuel" is that it contains fossil specimens of the plants that contributed to it's production.

Then there is the issue of helium. Methane and crude oil are the only source of helium on Earth. Today the atmosphere contains only tiny traces of helium as nearly all of it has escaped into space. Crude oil and methane however contain much higher percentages of helium than would be possible if the oil were formed relatively recently. There just isn't a source in modern geophysical times for the helium found in oil. It is there because when the plants that became oil were deposited the helium content of the atmosphere was much higher than it is now and some of that helium was trapped in the carbonaceous deposits that became oil.

In short, the abiotic speculation is wrong.

[TGTool]

Naw, God PUT that helium into the petroleum to confound the scientists.

[Evan]

Naw, God PUT that helium into the petroleum to confound the scientists.

That is one scenario that some people believe. If it is true then Science is meaningless. We may as well depend on astrology for designing bridges.

[J Tiers]

If helium were more abundant in the atmosphere earlier, then the air must have been uniformly lighter...... so that helium was not so different in density/molecular weight.

Or it must have been so soon after the creation of an atmosphere that diffusion had not occurred.

Hydrogen and Helium escape because they are so light that they migrate UP slowly but surely. A small bias to the random motions.

The actual source is apparently radioactive decay.....

If it is true then Science is meaningless. We may as well depend on astrology for designing bridges.

As you have probably realized by now, that statement is not actually supportable by logical means !


As far as the "abiotic" garbage, just exactly how in the blue &^%$ does anyone expect to make a carbon and hydrogen molecule using helium as the raw material?

The statement simply makes less than no sense..... I think just saying or typing it several times could reduce your IQ a measurable amount.... So by now the proponents of same must have the brains of a low grade of slime mold

[Evan]

Hydrogen and Helium escape because they are so light that they migrate UP slowly but surely. A small bias to the random motions.

I don't think so. The atmosphere stays mixed. Brownian motion totally overwhelms the very weak force of gravity at that scale (added: gravity is 10^40 times weaker than electromagnetism). What happens is that the helium component of the atmosphere is simply easier to accelerate to escape velocity when it is near the top of the atmosphere.

As for the origin of the helium, the overwhelming majority of methane sources contain a ratio of helium 3 to helium 4 that argues for a biogenic source of oil. Helium 3 is more common in oil than helium 4 and the ratio is different than that in the current atmosphere. Helium 3 is formed only by fusion whereas helium 4 is formed by radioactive decay. The abundance of helium 3 vs He4 indicates that atmospheric helium derived from primal sources (stardust) is the the main source of helium in oil.

[J Tiers]

I don't think so.

I'm sure that's nice.