Smelly Chinese Plastics

[JCHannum]

That's in another thread. Go ahead if you have something of substance to add.

Nothing to add to the C-clamp discussion other than it is a good example of someone's willingness to believe in a connection without conclusive evidence.

[Evan]

Nothing to add to the C-clamp discussion other than it is a good example of someone's willingness to believe in a connection without conclusive evidence.

There is a significant difference. Cast iron isn't a political hot potato that motivates people to make culturally biased judgements. Also, it has been extensively studied and the properties are well known. That provides a large body of already confirmed evidence to draw on. That you don't agree is a reflection more of your attitude and the history of our interaction rather than the facts.

[Deja Vu]

It's not an American thing -- all industrialized nations have outsourced to China. Arc Euro, Hare & Forbes, Busy Bee, ... all carry the same stuff that Harbor Freight and Enco do.

You're right. I tend to read these posts as if everyone complaining about China are Americans. But! The problem is still not with China at all. They are the sellers. The problem is with the buyers. They get the goods whether good or not, and flood their respective countries with so much junk that the home grown stuff gets pushed back, if not literally on the shelves, surely through misleading advertising.
I have no problem with China at all. It is the buyers, whether American, British, Dutch, German, Canadian or what have you, offering misrepresented products because the standards are not just lowered, but ignored by our governmental watchdogs.

(okay, that was outreaching a little too much...

By the way.. I've got one of those "smelly" screwdrivers. I used to keep it(which I discovered) in my truck emergency toolbox.
When I needed a tool I nearly passed out opening up the box. It was covered with a white residue. I cleaned it all up figuring it was done emitting the odor and put it in another box in the basement and forgot about it. Pulling the old tool box off the shelf while looking for one of those proverbial "missing" tools, I again nearly passed out when opening THAT box.

[J Tiers]

I would not be so quick to absolve the chinese of everything......

EVERYONE wants 'stuff" and they want it NOW.....

What is going on in china is that the large demand leads to various sorts of corner-cutting in order to supply the demand. The corner cutting may in some cases be innocent, a result of simply not understanding requirements. or it may be in other cases, and I suspect MOST cases, a matter of "anything goes to get the job done".

How does lead paint get on toys? (and it does, by the way)

Easy.... the "correct and approved" paint is in short supply (because it is a new demand), and people in factories in china are told to "get some damn paint and don't be long about it!" .......... So what happens?

The SAME THING THAT HAPPENS HERE...... they find some paint that will work, and they don't ask too many questions.

What if a shipment is marginal to over the limit on specs....? Same deal..... SHIP IT! many here do much the same. Is that right? No..... Does it happen? sure... it happens because otherwise the deliveries are late, and MONEY WILL BE LOST CORRECTING IT.... That is a strong motivation the world over.

How do counterfeit products get made in china? (and they do by the way)

Someone with less ethics than normal, and a keen appreciation for the fact that in china it is not illegal, and may in fact be encouraged, copies a foreigner's product. If they are really out for a yuan, they don't bother to make it WORK, just to look like the real thing. Case in point the circuit breakers that don't break the circuit.....

That motivation is NOT unique to chinese...... BUT the legal and industrial environment in which it occurs IS relatively unique to china.

How do counterfeit antibiotics and cancer drugs get made in china? or poisonous foods, poisonous medicines and toothpaste, etc? (and they DO get made, by the way)

Basically the same way as non-functional counterfeits..... only the people must just not care what happens to the despised and sub-normal foreigners. of course it happens elsewhere, and some adulterating of drugs etc is even found in the US... but it is quickly stamped-on here and in most places with any functional legal, regulatory, and governmental system.

China has the government, and in some cases the laws and legal system (but certainly not all cases). The missing element is a functional regulatory system, and the total lack of any protection for "intellectual property".

What is in common here? The desire to make money, and a disinclination to ask questions about HOW that happens, who gets impacted, and how they are impacted.

Much like making products in the US and dumping the effluent into the town drinking water..... or letting the lead dust settle over the whole town..... or putting off maintenance and allowing the Gulf of Mexico to be covered in oil..... because it's cheaper and you can make more money that way.

Why is china a nexus for this? because the combination of industrial growth, an export economy, lack of laws (and in many cases, law enforcement/regulatory systems), strong historical cultural biases against foreigners, and free-flowing money are combined there.

This is almost certainly the sort of thing that happens, and the reasons for it, no matter how much a few china-apologists wish to characterize noticing this as entirely due to racial or cultural biases.

Now, if you want to bring THAT subject up...... The chinese themselves have thousands of years of racial and cultural bias against ALL SORTS of non-chinese..... And it still occurs.... The Uighurs are a case in point...... originally nomadic tribes on the border of the chinese "nation", now much more assimilated, but considered to be racially, intellectually, and culturally second-class (or lower), even though they have existed within chinese society for hundreds of years, and as a "factor" for even longer.

As a result there seems also to be a tendency to allow un-molested sales of bad products to foreigners and non-chinese. Detected instances are covered up and foreign investigations are stone-walled..... it is relatively unimportant if done to foreigners and if it benefits china or chinese. The only exceptions are if the foreigners are smart enough to notice, and if they care enough to stop buying....

But a significantly larger outcry occurs if it is done domestically..... often with a short trial and a bullet resulting. The cover-up is much the same, at least as far as outsiders are concerned, but some of that is merely 'apparent" because of the historical nature of the chinese courts, and legal system.

Now, mind, we are not immune... We will ship trash to places where processing" is a harmful and even fatal procedure for workers, trash which we don't accept here..... and other similar situations.... But we have a very significantly lower amount of counterfeiting on-shore, and even less made for export..... as a percentage of the totals.

And even our failings in the above respects are a subject for loud internal debate..... This sort of loud debate is *not so obvious* in the case of china.