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Thread: perpetual motion , Overunity and free energy nuts all over the web.

  1. #31
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    There is one thing about PM machines and that is they are often little works of art. I came across this on Utube and it is an interesting little garden piece. Obviously it needs a hidden pump to circulate the water up to the tank. It is as nice an ornament as many that I have seen, and with a little bit of touching up could be downright purty!

  2. #32
    PeteF Guest

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    The mystery "200mpg carburator" actually did exist. It was designed and built by a fellow named Charles Nelson Pogue, in the 1930's. During tests, it was installed on a Ford flathead V-8 and driven almost 200 miles on four litres of gasoline, during a rainstorm.
    Oh you mean this one? http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

    Next

  3. #33
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    My brother and I had a Studebaker President Eight which could pass anything except a gas station.

    We made a carburator according to Pogues patent description and fitted it to the car, we filled the sump with 10 weight oil and pumped the tires up to 90psi. We fitted water vapour injection and put toroidal magnets on the fuel lines. Then we took it for a drive.

    We had gone about 100 miles when the police pulled us over because the gas tank was overflowing and gushing onto the road.

    This is a true story.

  4. #34
    oldbikerdude37 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dp
    Here we go again - this topic is evidence of perpetual motion. It belongs on this list:

    http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

    Thats a funny link, I liked that alot.

    from the link..


    "It may be perpetual motion, but it will take forever to test it."
    Cartoon by Donald Simanek.

  5. #35
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    The internet is one of those places where there is no idiot filter. It's a free place for intelligence, too.

    I fail to see why so many of these people think that the laws of physics are circumvented so easily. I could understand if they were using nanotech/high energy, etc.

  6. #36
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    Default Perpetual vs Continuous Motion

    originally posted to Home Shop Machinist, 04/15/09
    edited June 18, 2010

    The concept of so-called perpetual motion has been claimed to have been investigated by conventional engineering. Classical thermodynamics deals with closed systems. Working overunity devices are open systems and hence outside the classical definition of closed systems. See Bearden's "Energy from the Vacuum" for a more precise discussion of open and closed thermodynamic systems.

    Conventional science recognizes three types of so-called Perpetual Motion:

    Perpetual Motion of the First Kind
    (PHYS) A mechanism which, when set in motion, continues to do useful work without an input of energy, or which produces more energy than is absorbed in its operation; it violates the principle of conservation of energy.

    Perpetual Motion of the Second Kind
    (PHS) A device that extracts heat from a source and then converts this heat completely into other forms of energy; it violates the second law of thermodynamics.

    Perpetual Motion of the Third Kind
    (PHS) A device which has a component that can continue moving forever; an example is a superconductor. (McGraw-Hill Concise Encyclopedia of Science & Technology)

    A critical look at each of these statements reveals
    1) in the 1st it is a CLOSED system, such as a mechanical device, which of course cannot function continuously;
    2) complete conversion of one form of energy into another is not likely given our current state of technology; and
    3) terms have not been defined. For example what does "forever" mean? Could six to fourteen billion years be considered "forever" as in the earth spinning continuously, which it has done? Besides all that, heat is an EFFECT and not a CAUSE. What conventional engineering could do, if they weren't so anal-retentive, is to investigate such cases of CONTINUOUS motion within an OPEN system and find out why and how they are what they are and do what they do.

    Of course, it is far easier to label things not understood as fraud or scam and wave them off than to admit an incomplete knowledge base; i.e., the presumption is We know everything there is to know about everything there is so stop already with the unanswerable and embarassing questions.

    Thousands of engineers have checked out this particular device and not a single one can say why and how it works - even though it has been working for the past 30 or so years. Obviously they are so fanatical with their beliefs they cannot see with new eyes. I don't know why it does what it does and many of those who've actually looked at it and are honest and have integrity admit they don't know either. Of course, the pontificators already know it is a fraud so why waste their so incredibly valuable time and 'expertise' to actually investigate it?
    http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Testatika

    We do know this device is an OPEN system therefore Perpetual Motion of the First Kind does not apply. Apparently there is ample outside energy coming into the system to power it - or if you have a better idea??? This device does not convert heat so Perpetual Motion of the Second Kind does not apply. Perpetual Motion of the Third Kind does not apply because none of its components can move forever (whatever that means) because being mechanical they would wear out and cease to move. Obviously what components do move are moved by an outside force made use of by its design and mechanisms. These being the case this device is NOT a perpetual motion machine in any sense of that phrase as defined by conventional and accepted engineering.

    But as Galileo said "Yet it does move!"



    Original article:
    http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.c...rpetual+Motion

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnm109
    Well, hybrid cars just run on electricity, don't they? I mean, all you have to do is plug them in now and then and that's free, isn't it? The electricity just comes out of the plug where the cable is hooked up.......


    It is free, and if you bury the extension cord that's plugged into your neighbors house it can go on virtually forever and ever...



    Anytime there's an energy crunch of some kind the PMM's get built/created/concocted at a tenfold rate, half of these guys are true blue at heart and although naive they really want to "save the world"
    The other half are outright opportunist crooks,,,
    Being a longtime mechanic I can't believe how many questions iv had to answer to my customers lately esp. about the "browns gas" apparatus that they were considering purchasing.
    I tell them that the system does work as far as creating the gas, but it takes far more energies in electricity and therefore alternator drag then the gas produces to power it,
    I then follow up with telling them to just think about it for a second --- If we could produce more fuel energies than what it took in electricity to create it then why would we even need power plants as everyone could have a little generator unit running in their basement, or all the large plants that supply us wouldn't need to burn coal or hunt down uranium, or these units could be "running" small engines overnight whilst are cars are parked - charging up Li-po's for the next days commute, or massive on demand coils could be powered to power all the needs of a gas engine and re-generator, that usually settles them down some, but then im kinda the "bad guy" cuz i just crushed their dreams.

    The bottom line is people want to feel like they have the "inside scoop"
    One friend handed me about a hundred page write up on how to build your own browns gas apparatus - he insisted I go through it and get back to him,
    he already felt like he was ahead of the game because it was a friend of his that spent the 80 bucks for the plans and these were just copied on a printer (such a waste of good paper)
    The "documents" were given to me almost in a kind of "secrecy"
    So I took them home, made sure I knew what it was about by skimming the pages, let them sit on the shelf for a week and them gave them back to him and told him same thing, Although disappointed at first - he then felt comfortable with my decision

  8. #38
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    A critical look at each of these statements reveals
    1) in the 1st it is a CLOSED system, such as a mechanical device, which of course cannot function continuously;


    A mechanical device is not a closed system nor is a truly closed system possible except as a thought experiment. All systems in this universe are a part of the universe and are continuously affected by the various properties of the universe. Just to name a few, there is gravity which cannot be excluded from a system and the possibility of energy transfer via gravity waves. There are trillions of neutrinos flooding every cubic metre of space at all times and occasional interactions occur. They cannot be shielded except by many light years thickness of lead. There are also as yet undiscovered but strongly suspected "other" effects such as the possibility of WIMPS (Weakly Interactive Massive Particles), Dark matter and a host of related possible phenomena.

    2) complete conversion of one form of energy into another is not likely given our current state of technology; and

    Complete conversion exists and is well known. The interaction of mirrored antiparticles produces complete annihilation of matter with a subsequent conversion to energy.in the form of photons. That however is not relevant since there is always loss due to symmetry breaking. It is symmetry breaking that gives a direction to the arrow of time and makes it impossible to reverse entropy.

    Symmetry considerations dominate modern fundamental physics, both in quantum theory and in relativity. Philosophers are now beginning to devote increasing attention to such issues as the significance of gauge symmetry, quantum particle identity in the light of permutation symmetry, how to make sense of parity violation, the role of symmetry breaking, the empirical status of symmetry principles, and so forth. These issues relate directly to traditional problems in the philosophy of science, including the status of the laws of nature, the relationships between mathematics, physical theory, and the world, and the extent to which mathematics dictates physics.
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/symmetry-breaking/

    It is these concepts that are usually not understood that lead to the belief that "over unity" and "perpetual motion" devices may be possible. The universe not only forbids it but makes it impossible to cheat in any way. While the Universe itself may be the ultimate Free Lunch the rules by which it functions ALWAYS cloak any possible phenomena that would in some way reveal a contradiction.


    3) terms have not been defined. For example what does "forever" mean? Could six to fourteen billion years be considered "forever" as in the earth spinning continuously, which it has done? Besides all that, heat is an EFFECT and not a CAUSE. What conventional engineering could do, if they weren't so anal-retentive, is to investigate such cases of CONTINUOUS motion within an OPEN system and find out why and how they are what they are and do what they do.

    Such phenomena have been well investigated. The Earth is slowing down in it's rate of spin, the Moon is drifting further away as momentum is transferred, the Sun is burning it's fuel and the Universe is expanding. There are no cases of continuous motion to investigate. All such apparent cases show precisely the expected characteristics and obey the easily calculated parameters that are in accord with the energies and masses involved.
    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

  9. #39
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    it's even simpler...........

    "if it looks too good to be true, it IS too good to be true... and so it is NOT true".

    That works for investments, and it works for "free energy".

    No matter how much you wish, there STILL ain't no free lunch in this world. But people continue to think they can con the system and get one.

  10. #40
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    Thousands of engineers have checked out this particular device and not a single one can say why and how it works - even though it has been working for the past 30 or so years. Obviously they are so fanatical with their beliefs they cannot see with new eyes. I don't know why it does what it does and many of those who've actually looked at it and are honest and have integrity admit they don't know either. Of course, the pontificators already know it is a fraud so why waste their so incredibly valuable time and 'expertise' to actually investigate it?
    Nobody has ever been permitted to actually examine how the machine runs. The most that has been permitted is to watch it from a distance which is of course useless and does not qualify as an "examination". It meets all requirements for being a hoax. It has met none that would show otherwise. The fact that it moves is proof of nothing other than it has an energy input. There are many ways to build a motor and not all of them require the use of windings and magnets.
    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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