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Thread: Wheel Lug stud Installation?

  1. #31
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    Willy, in a past life I worked in dealerships, independent shops, and maintained a fleet of vehicles for an oil co. I always used anti-seize on the studs, from passenger vehicles on up to the big stuff, and never had a wheeloff. The seatbelt analogy is pretty lame. I suspect those studies and opinions have more to do with lawyers and lawsuits than anything else. I suppose in the end your opinion or mine is not going to make much difference. I will probably continue to use it with confidence on my own vehicles, and others won't. If properly installed, it is not likely that those in either camp will lose any wheels.
    James

  2. #32
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    Fair enough James, as I said previously I'm not here to turn the world around, but I do like to learn from the experience of others.
    The industry opinion is on my side on this issue, not my previous experience or yours, but the experience of countless thousands of others.

    Chances are you could carry on for five lifetimes and not have an issue...but the odds would be better if you followed the industry's recommendations.

    While you opinion of my seatbelt analogy being lame may have merit, this quote of yours certainly doesn't hold a lot of water either.

    Originally Posted by J Randall
    I suspect those studies and opinions have more to do with lawyers and lawsuits than anything else.

  3. #33
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    Having used anti seize or oil for years on almost every thread I have never had a problem of them coming loose. I will say that the anti seize will let you remove the nut long after the oil goes away and they rust together.

    It's probably just a case of no long term tests by the "government agency" that sets the regulations more than anything else.
    Last edited by Carld; 03-08-2011 at 07:55 AM.
    It's only ink and paper

  4. #34
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    Went to the link and I guess I ended up with the vague feeling I always get after reading instructions written lowest common denominator style.

    I see the point but question the logic, and since it's written for dumbest guy in the shop it doesn't really explain why at a satisfying level.

    The explanation that antiseize might allow you to remove and then reinstall hardware that you actually should have ruined and tossed was the worst, and I'm not convinced the writer understands the interrelationship of torque, lube, and tension.

    Anyway Willy, thanks for the link, I'll ease up on the semi trucks, but the stuff that plays in the soup is gonna get a double dose.

  5. #35
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    Default Neverseize

    Quote Originally Posted by SVS
    Went to the link and I guess I ended up with the vague feeling I always get after reading instructions written lowest common denominator style.

    I see the point but question the logic, and since it's written for dumbest guy in the shop it doesn't really explain why at a satisfying level.

    The explanation that antiseize might allow you to remove and then reinstall hardware that you actually should have ruined and tossed was the worst, and I'm not convinced the writer understands the interrelationship of torque, lube, and tension.

    Anyway Willy, thanks for the link, I'll ease up on the semi trucks, but the stuff that plays in the soup is gonna get a double dose.
    I read the links also and will still use neverseize on my wheel studs.

    I have noticed that most people do not ever look at or check their wheel nuts , a few minutes once a week will save you from most of the expensive issues which have been outlined in many of the previous posts.

    There seems to be a gradual dumbing down of the general population when it comes to simple vehicle maintenance ,much of it appears to be caused by stupid acts or ignorance of simple things.

    I have been told that I cant change my own tyres on a mine site as I am not a tyre technician , what a load of BS, I would trust my own methods more than those used by some of the uncaring people who often over torque nuts leading to studs snapping while driving ,neverseize or not.

    Michael

  6. #36
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    northern Minnesota
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike4
    I would trust my own methods more than those used by some of the uncaring people who often over torque nuts leading to studs snapping while driving ,neverseize or not.

    Michael
    Don't know if I'd call them uncaring..more like lazy. Most tire "techicans" I've run across don't want to take the effort to hand torque Budd wheel nuts..so they use a one inch drive impact with 200 psi in the air compressor and rattle the heck out of everything.

    As far as anti seize on semi tires. All commercial vehicles have to be inspected by a licensed DOT technican. If that inspected vehicle has a serious accident the DOT is required to inspect said vehicle..any evidence of anti seize on wheel studs and the tech is in big doo doo..he failed to follow industry standards.

  7. #37
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    "People don't check their lug nuts". Hell, people don't check anything on their car, tire pressure, oil, water, etc. The only thing most drivers check is the key in the ignition, the brakes when they stop, the headlights at night and the steering when they make turns. I have got out at stop lights and told drivers they have no brake lights or tail lights many times. Have you ever looked at tires as you drive on the highway, many of them are running on low air and some near flat.

    EDIT: I searched a lot of sites about anti seize on wheel studs and the biggest issue was the anti seize can cause over torquing of the lug nut and possible failure of the stud. I could not find a site with Federal DOT regulations on it, they want to sell the book to you, not let you read it.
    Last edited by Carld; 03-08-2011 at 08:41 AM.
    It's only ink and paper

  8. #38
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    Willy posted an article from TIA stating that the clamping force is of utmost importantce. Mating surfaces must be clean. Did any one of you ever see a technician use a wire brush on the inside seating surface of a wheel? Did the tech then wire brush arount the studs and the mating surface of the hub or axle flange? Dissimiliar metals cause excessive corrosion and must be cleaned up before remounting a wheel. There several reasons why wheels loosen. JIM
    jim

  9. #39
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    I hate snti seize! Messy! Just a few weeks ago a guy brought a car in to me with a broken wheel stud, guess what, every stud was covered with anti seize.

    I only use motor oil on studs if anything at all. I only use the moly grease to pull studs in and then they get cleaned off.

    Anyone can use anything and "not have problems all their life" but it may not be correct.

    Anti seize dries out and turns into a paste impossible to clean mess. I have seen people use anti sieze on exhaust where it actually dried, cured, and hardened the bolt in.

    If that anti sieze gets in between the wheel and rotor you WILL have problems. It is not worth the risk or the mess! Just use a drop of motor oil on the threads if you must use anything.
    Andy

  10. #40
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    I have always used anti seize without incident, hell I love the stuff as much as the next guy and still do use it, but not on wheel studs anymore, just oil.
    The stuff works great...maybe too well. I realize that I'm probably preaching to the choir here as most here can grasp the concept of exceeding yield strength.

    Thats the issue with anti seize, it has been shown that when used in this application, wheel torques that should be at a level of about 450-500 ft. lbs., are in effect being torqued to 700- 1000 ft. lbs. At this level the studs are beyond their yield strength. Instead of the stud clamping the the wheel, it is actually loose because it has lost it's ability to stretch, and/or just about to break when subjected to heavy loads.

    This isn't a problem when you or I conscientiously use it, we compensate for the reduced torque requirement. But how many here have had wheels installed "professionally" only to find later when removing a wheel, that it takes either standing on the end of a flex bar, or a piece of pipe to get the damn thing off?

    This is where the problem manifests itself.
    Suppose your wife or daughter is using the car, she has a flat and "Pongo" comes down with the service truck, changes the wheel, and proceeds to rattle it on with his impact till the nuts have just about stopped turning, because "Pongo" wants to make sure they are good and tight.
    You and I know that those studs are toast.
    This is one of the main reasons that the use of anti seize is not recommended on commercial truck studs...too many "Pongos" out there with 1" impacts capable of 1600 ft. lbs. of torque!


    Interesting sideline here. About 15 miles down the road we have a sharp uphill turn where truckers tend to enter the curve a little too fast as they come off of the highway. This curve puts a lot of strain on one of the steering axle wheels. About ten years ago I noticed a broken wheel stud laying on the side of the road on this corner, I decided to return in my car later to pick it up and found it had an application of anti seize on the nut/stud interface. Since then I have found at least a half dozen more all the same. Coincidence perhaps but I think not.

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