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Thread: Help with a hinge project

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default Help with a hinge project

    Hi All,
    I'm a newbie to machining and just started welding last year, self taught.
    I want to add an external tire carrier to a 1999 Ford E-250 (van). The off the shelf carriers bolt to the door and will cause it to sag. I want to attach the tire carrier directly to the door hinges. Here's a design I've come up with and I'm hoping for some feedback from someone who knows what they are doing. I sure don't. I'm faking it.

    Here's a current picture of one of the two hinges.


    My idea is to cut off the head of the current hinge pin and remove it. It's about .33" in diameter. Hard to get an exact measurement of it at the moment. I'd take a length of W-1 drill rod and mill it to the same diameter as the old hinge pin. Take 3/4" diameter 12L14 steel alloy and drill out the center to fit the new drill rod hinge pin. Then cut off two 3/4" long pieces of the steel rod and fit on each end of the original hinge. Cut the new pin to fit this longer hinge. Then weld the the new hinge pieces to a 1/4" thick steel plate (Drawings not to scale)



    I'd then use the two new hinge plates and weld square tube to each in a "V" shape. Where the two legs join bolt that to the door. Hang the tire from the square tube.



    The spare tire and tire rack will weigh about 100lbs combined. I'm mainly worried about the strength of the metals for this application since I have absolutely no knowledge on the subject. The metals I've chosen to use are things I happen to have on hand. I have no problem buying something different if it's a better choice.

    To make up for my "just OK" welding ability I might increase the length of the added steel rod on the top and bottom of the hinge to 1" from 3/4". Gives me more room for error. The new hinge plates would probably be triangular shaped.

    I hope this all makes sense. If not please let me know.
    Thanks for your time.
    Dave
    Last edited by WVVan; 09-10-2011 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    438

    Default

    There was something like that on my van when I bought it........



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    It bolted to the hinges and was secured at a center point in the sheet metal. When it was removed all that remained was the center hole in that door.

    If your hinge pins/bushings are in good shape there should be no drooping. This one has that huge one piece rear door and it was OK, the hinges are the same ones used with a barn door set-up. They are very similar to those used by FoMoCo vans.

    I put the tire back inside because I didn't like the way it looked and the sheet metal was already bent from someone backing into something and I didn't want it to happen again.

    Cannot show further details as that carrier was sold and the door has been replaced (rusty).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WVVan
    My idea is to cut off the head of the current hinge pin and remove it. It's about .33" in diameter. Hard to get an exact measurement of it at the moment. I'd take a length of W-1 drill rod and mill it to the same diameter as the old hinge pin. Take 3/4" diameter 12L14 steel alloy and drill out the center to fit the new drill rod hinge pin. Then cut off two 3/4" long pieces of the steel rod and fit on each end of the original hinge. Cut the new pin to fit this longer hinge. Then weld the the new hinge pieces to a 1/4" thick steel plate
    I wouldn't use drill rod for the hinge pin. If it is the diameter you quote, that's a non-standard size and machining drill rod is harder than turning mild steel. What's to stop the hinge pin falling out downwards? Or for that matter, someone knocking it out and robbing your wheel and door? It probably needs a head and tail, so drill and tap it, secure head and tail with countersink screw, fill screw head and paint over. I would suggest a bronze washer between the underside of the upper 3/4" 12L14 piece and the top of the fixed part of the hinge. You might need to drill or ream the 12L14 pieces after welding as they may distort; in any case, set them up on a good jig before welding so the holes stay in line.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,795

    Default

    My first thought was just how good of a welder are you? Just imagine if your welds fail in a critical point and your spare tire comes loose and hits a car behind you. Not pretty. If you are not absolutely sure of your welds being VERY good welds get a pro to weld it for you.

    Other than that is is a good idea.
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Thanks for the help.
    I wasn't clear in my first post that I planned to leave a head on the hinge pin when I milled it. I'd also cut a groove in the bottom for a c clip. Yes someone could remove the pins but the other end of the tire rack will be bolted to the door with the nuts inside the door. Not impossible for a thief to get off but enough of a hassle to hopefully be a deterrent.

    To check my welds I'll do what I've done before which is to weld up a test hinge then destroy it with a sledge hammer to see if it fails.

    Since drill rod is hard to mill would a .33" hinge pin made from 12L14 steel be strong enough?

    Thanks again,
    Dave

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    2,167

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    I thought 12L14 didn't weld very well (or at all ).
    ...lew...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    22

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    I thought 12L14 didn't weld very well (or at all )
    Just looked it up and you're right. Guess I'll order some 1018.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    6,714

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    I wouldn't use 12L14. Aside from not being weldable, it loves to rust. Not a good trait for something on the exterior of a vehicle. 1018 isn't anything to get exited about, either, as far as rust resistance goes. It would be nice to use something like 4140, but according to McMaster-Carr it has only fair weldability. 4130 or 4150 might be options.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Thanks for the help. Got one done.



    Took me a good part of the weekend. Hopefully the second one will go quicker.
    Used drill rod for the hinge pin. I did take a while to machine but it is strong.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I've just about finished with the tire carrier project but have a hinge pin question. The hinge pins I made from W-1 Drill Rod rusts fairly fast. If I made the pins out of stainless steel 316 would they be strong enough?

    Here is a link to the RV web page with some more pictures.
    http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...7.cfm#25423687

    What I know about metals I've picked up from reading the product guides at onlinemetals.com which means I don't know a lot. That's where I ordered most of my materials so far except for the heavy stuff which I get local.

    Stainless steel rod I was looking at.
    http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...id=7&top_cat=1

    Thanks.
    Dave

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