Qu. about modifying H&R .22 cylinder

[Alphawolf45]

Considering its an heirloom or has sentimental value and you will not be shooting it a lot I wonder why you would not just leave it as is..I inherited some guns from Grandpa- all beatup junk but I wouldnt want to change one so much as to swap out an original cylinder for one that isnt one Grandpa used........



Plug that one bad chamber so it cant be used..Then shoot shorts in the remaining chambers...I have made a revolver cylinders..Lot of work..
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I dont know how much of a machinist you are or what you have for tools...If it were mine.... I would bore out that bad chamber by plunge cutting with a carbide endmill..Might work to use a 5/16 dia endmill or can grind a carbide cutter for a special size.........Cylinder would need to first be set down inside a snug fitting sleeve so that cutter dont wander out the side of the cylinder when cutting....Remove cylinder from the sleeve after enlarging that chamber.......Then push in a "new" pre-chambered plug..Make it of air hardening toolsteel..Harden and temper before installing.. glue it in place with green loctite..Then grind on the portion that hangs out the side to make the cylinder round again and recut the indexing cut.......This would be easier than making a new cylinder and every bit as strong as when new plus it would retain the original cylinder for those nostalgic sentiments..Thats what I would do....then if I messed that up I would make a new cylinder

[radkins]

Well just because a new cylinder is made does not mean the old one has to be thrown away, make a new cylinder and keep the old one as is that way nothing in the way of nostalgia is lost.

[Alphawolf45]

Well just because a new cylinder is made does not mean the old one has to be thrown away, make a new cylinder and keep the old one as is that way nothing in the way of nostalgia is lost.

Heya Radkins where are the pictures and build thread of your Highwall? I did a search but come up empty... I have seen lots of guys start build of an 1885 but very ,very few fellows ever finish one..

[radkins]

Yep I finished it, these pics were taken before bluing which turned into a frustrating episode of the build. Tried several times to hot blue but the 4140 just would not come out the way I wanted (I will blame it on the 4140 anyway ) so I just rust blued it, actually still don't have all the parts blued since I have another project I am working on now and then there is the farm this time of year. It shoots really good using a 500 gr Lee cast bullet and Varget but I want to install a tang sight and work with it some more using BP (real BP not the phony stuff!). I made several serious mods to the internals mostly to clean up the exterior of the receiver by eliminating the lower tang screws and the sear pin, the sear is mounted on a carrier that rides in slots much like the lower tang.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=49612


I will try to get up a few more pics as soon as I finish bluing the rest of the parts as well as try to post some progress pics on the scaled down version I am building.

[Alphawolf45]

Thanks Radkins..Other than myself I only know of you as a man that has finished a scratch build of an 1885..Amazing to me that you built yours without a vertical mill.Lack of tools didnt hurt you none did it? .Better tools help to speed up a job but dont guarantee quality work..You did really purty work, my hat is off to you..Start a thread on your 'scaled down version'.. I have a highwall rimfire build on my workbench I hope to finish this year or next...Good to see another man working on the era guns I prefer.

[hal9000]

Considering its an heirloom or has sentimental value and you will not be shooting it a lot I wonder why you would not just leave it as is..

Two reasons: first and foremost, I'm looking for projects (new to lathe/mill work but I recently got the tools necessary). Second. I can't abide broken things very well.

I'm not sure plugging/sleeving the cylinder would be any easier than modifying the spare I have, but it's worth looking at. I'd be inclined to follow Radkins' lead and modify the spare (instead of making one from scratch) and preserve the original one for posterity.

[Gary Paine]

....I'm not sure about what issues I'd run into trying to face the cylinder, or turn it down to a smaller diameter, so I figured I'd ask. A) Is this plausible/possible to do? b) Can anybody give me a few hints on how to proceed so I don't go into the project relying only on my (often faulty) imagination? Thanks.

I'm not sure how your project worked out this summer, but this story might help:
I am certainly not a gunsmith, but have fun working on them. I’ve restocked and repaired several old pieces and assembled some kit percussion pieces in the past, but had saved the old H & R trapper for many years before getting up the gumption to tackle the missing cylinder, springs, and other minor missing parts. I just finished it and thought it might be worth documenting the process and special tools it took to make a cylinder.
The first part of the process was to figure out what the missing cylinder dimensions would be and draw it up. Beginning with my best calipers, micrometers, feeler gages, gage blocks, and small hole gages, I drew up what I thought would be right.
I then took my sketches to the computer and drew it up at a large scale. Dimensioning it also helped me work through the dimensioning a bit.
Chucking up a suitable piece of steel about 3 ½ inches long in the 4 jaw, I turned the OD to size and polished it and made a tenon on the end the diameter and height that the ratchet teeth would be. I drilled and reamed the center hole to be a very close fit to the retaining pin. Other than freshly sharpened cutting tools, there was nothing noteworthy in this process other than getting good sharp corners.
Without removing this piece from the chuck, the whole chuck and workpiece was mounted on my dividing head. The piece was indicated in to be truly on center with the spindle of my mill-drill. An indicator was set up to insure a precise movement and the part was moved on the x-axis to position the row of cylinder holes at exactly the right place. (As an aside, this is when I discovered a significant table movement when I tightened the table locks. Probably gib wear, but I had to take care to guard against error!)
I drilled each of the 6 holes a bit undersize in this part because the first attempt was to be my test piece or prototype. The size I chose matched the diameter of a piece of drill rod that just slid down the barrel. When I was ready to test the part, the rod must enter the cylinder through the barrel or I blew it.
After these holes were made, I rotated the dividing head to horizontal, installed a ¼ inch end mill, set it to .045 deeper than centerline of a cylinder (half the thickness of the trigger cylinder stop) and milled the row of notches in the cylinder.
Now I mounted a 60 degree dovetail bit in the holder and cut the 6 teeth in the indexer.
Since this piece was being completed just to confirm stuff, I didn’t bother with the long outside gripping groves around the cylinder and I took it back to the lathe, still in the chuck, and I cut the part to length including the bearing at the end.
Testing this in the revolver told me what I needed to know. First, the OD was about perfect. The headspace needed to increase a few thousandths, the bearing at the end needed to be almost .04 longer, and I had hit the chamber radius perfectly, with the test rod pushing down the barrel and entering nicely into all the chambers. What didn’t work was the teeth. The whole set of teeth needed to rotate counterclockwise about 15 degrees. Also, a single end mill cut for the index stop cuts wouldn’t work. The prototype was already too deep and the notch wasn’t long enough. The trigger stop needed more clearance. The final part would have to be made with a set of cuts with the ¼ inch cutter, then indexed a few degrees and a shallower cut made, then a few more degrees and a still shallower cut made. That created a bit more finishing polishing with a small die file in these notches, but got the right shape.
Now it was just a matter of doing it again.
I did not have a proper size reamer for a 22 cylinder, so I took one a bit too large and cut it down using my spin indexer and tool and cutter grinder. It took two tries to get it right. Also, I needed my small boring head set at the diameter of the rim of the shell plus about .005 to create small notches between the ratchet teeth so the shell did not interfere with their circumference. Since these were now ready tools having finished the prototype, I was able to finish the final part in less than 2 days playing in the shop. I just used cold blue on it and I rubbed a bit of wear here and there for proper appearance.
I fired a dozen cb size shells in the gun and it works fine. I surprised myself.

[JCHannum]

Congratulations on your success. You have not only brought an old gun back to life, you have gained some insight as to how these parts were made.

A Trappers Model was my first gun, given to me by my uncle over 60 years ago. I still have it.

[rdhem2]

I have cleaned up a couple Ruger cylinders that really wern't to spec but have not made one from scratch. You said seven shot? Just think of it as making a seven tooth gear. Take the scary thought of gun out of the project and proceed. You aren't this anxious about every project I hope!!!