Emco Maximat V10P lahe motor

[metalmole]

Hi all, ive aquired a nice Emco Maximat V10P lathe/mill machine, I am having trouble with the push button switch for the lathe motor. The swith buttons will lock down but the motor wont work until you push the locked down button rather hard. Also it only works in the high speed. Has anyone here had any dealings with this machine and motor set up..........thanks

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...le/emco001.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...le/emco003.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...le/emco004.jpg

[DannyW]

Hi,

Could be some tired internal springs or copper contact strips in the switches, that have lost their spring-back due to ramming the buttons in, all the time.
Or refuse to make contact unless force is applied.

A few years back a friend of mine bought the same lathe, when he was just starting out in machining.
We needed to winch the lathe down from some sort of attic, where the gentleman had used it.

When we asked, if the headstock oil was already drained out for the move down from said attic (by winch), he replied big-eyed ...

Oil? What oil? There is no oil in that lathe!!

And sure thing, he always had run it dry. Probably to tinker with it for a few minutes at a time.

The lathe still runs mighty fine & tight!

But now there is oil in the headstock. ;-)

Regards,

Danny

[lakeside53]

Not working in low speed is a problem. The motor is gutless and prone to overheating. You are supposed to start it in low speed then select high (which is why it has that complicated interlocked switch array). You'll find that if it's cold and you are in the highest gear, the motor may never get to full rpm. Run it like that and you'll burn it out (the second most common problem on these lathes).

I have owned two, worked on three others, and that switch is a complete POS. Almost everyone either has or will have a problem with it. Here's one I modified (left-side protrusion) to "make" it work.





Best to just throw it, grind of the pot metal top housing switch-mount boss with a belt sander and replace it with flat plate and a couple of toggles.


As Emco's wiring diagram is pretty much indecipherable, I redrew it.




As some are electrically challenged, here's the physical wiring to the base of the toggle switches. I didn't show the "on/off" switch for the incomming mains.

[john hobdeclipe]

Chances are your motor is fine, and the entire problem is with the switch gear. These pushbutton controls on the V10P are well known to cause trouble as they age. I don't know how feasible it may be to carefully disassemble the components of the switches and clean them.

Here is a link to wiring diagrams for the V10P and the Mentor 10. The Mentor 10 is the same lathe but with a different and somewhat more robust switchgear. Note that the top of the second image is the wiring diagram for a single phase V10P. http://www.auldooly.com/emco.html

You may also find some help at this discussion group: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/emcoV10lathe/

I have a Mentor 10, from 1975, and if I can answer any questions let me know.

[metalmole]

Hey thanks for the reply's.........and the wiring diagrams.....

I don't think i will spend the time to take it apart and try and fix it if its a POS, the toggle switch idea sounds good, but with the weakish motor I was also thinking of replacing it with a 3 phase motor with VFD set up.

What do u guys think of that idea......??

Lakeside, looks like the second diagram is for the toggle conversion, I guess the on/off switch could be a twist type saftie switch...??

Also what type of switch did you use for the fordward/reverse, high/low opreation..??

[MCS]

Hey thanks for the reply's.........and the wiring diagrams.....

I don't think i will spend the time to take it apart and try and fix it if its a POS, the toggle switch idea sounds good, but with the weakish motor I was also thinking of replacing it with a 3 phase motor with VFD set up.

What do u guys think of that idea......??

I have done the VFD conversion on my V10-P. My switchpanel was intact, but the buttons were launched by pressing another button. Another problem was that the motor, when reversed when threading, would continue to run in the same direction, a factory build in "feature". The VFD will not do this.

A VFD can be programmed to use an Off, Left, Right switch. Combined with a potmeter this is al you need.

Another advantage is higher surface quality, the rumble of the original motor leaves its marks.

I had an industrial motor custom made, meaning an extended shaft to fit the fan. Hard to say if you need the fan anyway, but I would not risk it. The motor is also sealed on the other side. I shorted out two expensive EMCO motors when I worked with coolant.

I had to make adapter bars to fit the motor, but the whole solution is cheaper than an original motor.

[lakeside53]

Hey thanks for the reply's.........and the wiring diagrams.....

I don't think i will spend the time to take it apart and try and fix it if its a POS, the toggle switch idea sounds good, but with the weakish motor I was also thinking of replacing it with a 3 phase motor with VFD set up.

What do u guys think of that idea......??

Lakeside, looks like the second diagram is for the toggle conversion, I guess the on/off switch could be a twist type saftie switch...??

Also what type of switch did you use for the fordward/reverse, high/low opreation..??

The switch details are on the schematic.

The High-low is a DPDT center off - a double pole ON-OFF-ON (I was using the center as the "off" but you can precede that with a safety switch if you like), and the forward reverse is just a DPDT - 2 pole 2 position. Make sure they are rated for motor use.

I've done a couple of V10P vfd conversions. This one is using a genuine Emco 3 Phase 2 speed motor :

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/f...VFD%20project/


Here's the control box made from 4 inch aluminum square tube. Note the safety cover on the fwd/reverse. Juest to remind you that it's a threaded spindle



I did another with a standard TEFC Nema 1750 rpm motor. In this case I made polyvee pulleys for the motor and the lathe. If you go with the spingle speed motor, use 1hp. That way you still have about 1/2 hp when you overspeed or underspeed (whatever you choose) to simulate the dual speed original.

[lakeside53]

My switchpanel was intact, but the buttons were launched by pressing another button. Another problem was that the motor, when reversed when threading, would continue to run in the same direction, a factory build in "feature". The VFD will not do this.

.

Emco switch array or not, single phase motors will not reverse direction unless they are stopped first!

Why would you reverse when threading without stopping and removing the tooling first? That will trash the thread with the backlash.

[metalmole]

Thanks MCS for the input, I think 3 phase is the way to go...

Lakeside, what a neat conversion you did, I really like that control box !! Thanks for the pictures !! Do you know off the top of your head what the frame size I would need for a 3 phase motor retro ?? I have a source for some motors....
Also I would like to know more about the two belt grinders in your Photo Bucket album, I am in the process of putting one together, gonna start some knife work among some other adventures..........thanks

[lakeside53]

There is no NEMA frame that fits the Emco. It's a non-standard European mount. A typical TEC NEMA mount fro 1hp would be 48 or 56. You will need to make an adapter plate (or mount it to the bench/cabinet behind), but you'll find it difficult to make an 100XL belt work. The Emco motor pulley is 16mm, so it won't mount anyhow. Best to toss both pulleys and upgrade to aluminum polyvee pulleys, J-section belt (I used 4 or 5 grooves which is over kill).

The gearhead pulley has a 4mm key. a 5/32 broach worked fine.