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Thread: Why even bother anymore with manual machines?

  1. #261
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    This reminds me of an experience I had when I was working for a large Ag OEM. Large weldment needed a pin bore done as last operation. Think a 4 inch diameter bore, say 10 inches long. I was in a design role at the time so not directly my responsibility. Manufacturing was looking to bring in a HUGE machining center to make that one bore cut.

    I suggested the another approach should be considered. Use a Kwikway or similar boring bar with some suitable fixturing to make the cut. Mfg looked at me like I was from another planet.

    Now you would need to consider carefully before committing to that approach. Do the figures etc. I was just a little taken aback by the immediate dismissal of my idea. Mfg knew no other way except a big VMC.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by strokersix View Post
    I suggested the another approach should be considered. Use a Kwikway or similar boring bar with some suitable fixturing to make the cut. Mfg looked at me like I was from another planet.

    Now you would need to consider carefully before committing to that approach. Do the figures etc. I was just a little taken aback by the immediate dismissal of my idea. Mfg knew no other way except a big VMC.
    Because everyone knows there is only one way to skin a cat

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by strokersix View Post
    This reminds me of an experience I had when I was working for a large Ag OEM. Large weldment needed a pin bore done as last operation. Think a 4 inch diameter bore, say 10 inches long. I was in a design role at the time so not directly my responsibility. Manufacturing was looking to bring in a HUGE machining center to make that one bore cut.

    I suggested the another approach should be considered. Use a Kwikway or similar boring bar with some suitable fixturing to make the cut. Mfg looked at me like I was from another planet.

    Now you would need to consider carefully before committing to that approach. Do the figures etc. I was just a little taken aback by the immediate dismissal of my idea. Mfg knew no other way except a big VMC.
    The VMC would continue to be useful in other roles, the boring bar needs "skilled workers", besides being useful only for that, and being slow. But it is a minimum investment approach, likely not important as a consideration. A radial drill might have done as well, depending on tolerance, or an HBM, and those could have a fixture to locate the part instead of a careful setup.
    1601

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  4. #264
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    For 2 generations now, logic and critical thinking has been replaced by group think. As the song says..."step out of line, they come and take you away"....

  5. #265
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    Wow, since I started this thread, I've come to respect the opinion that manual machines are ideal for fixing things. Truth be told, that's what I do in my shop 95% of the time. I also agree that CNC is awesome. Cleaning up my shop today, again... Will get my little CNC mill on it's new frame.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  6. #266
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    For 2 generations now, logic and critical thinking has been replaced by group think.
    Its always been that way, its human nature. Look at manias, the ultimate group thinking....been around since there were humans. Ideally all would try and see the world as it is, few (none?) do as our attention is on ourselves and the view is from one vantage point .....not what others say.

    As for cnc/manual, it think it silly to view different tools almost as competition, like you're rooting for a sports team. We all have different requirements, space, budgets, interests etc. There's usually one tools that's best the job.....trick is to have one of everything. Until then, you get the things the let you accomplish your work as best you can
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 07-09-2019 at 10:58 AM.
    .

  7. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davek0974 View Post

    I converted the Bridgeport to CNC, serious conversion with servos, ball-screws etc and that was it - CNC fever

    Why did I convert he Bridgeport I hear you say? Only because I did not have the room or power to fit a small VMC in, they are all too big and the small ones are too small - my CNC mill has a 48" table, you have to go seriously large in VMC's to get a 48" table
    I know exactly what you mean. I hanker after one of these: Clausing MillPWR https://www.colchester.co.uk/product...lpwr-cnc-mill/

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandGB View Post
    For 2 generations now, logic and critical thinking has been replaced by group think. As the song says..."step out of line, they come and take you away"....
    People are, by nature, tribal. ALL people.

    Yes, I know YOU are different, except that you are not actually different....... We are all like that.

    Just think of THIS tribe..... the tribe of fixers..... There are fixers and tossers (take that one as you will !), there are riders and cagers, and it goes on.......
    1601

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    Hashim Khan

  9. #269

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    The answer is quite simple, use the best machine for the job at hand.

    I mostly use two 2 axis CNC lathes with conversational Bridgeport controls to make between 1-50 identical parts, the controls are so easy to use that anyone with manual lathe experience will pick it up in a month or two.

    I also turn larger parts on a 27 X 110" manual lathe with some of the parts taking upwards of 30 hours to complete, when required to do so the owner has me set up a production job on the small CNC lathe/s for a 25 year old to run 3000 parts at a time. Place part in chuck against spindle stop, close door, press start, remove part from chuck 38 seconds later and repeat until next week.

    The first hour almost always ends in tears and crashes, after 4-6 hours they often get the hang of it.
    The crashes eat up a good deal of time the first day but I loathe production work so it is worth it.

    I had to run 1700 of these parts 2 years ago, I asked the shop owner if one of the young guys could run it but he thought it was entirely to dangerous, this machine has no part catcher so the parts must be caught manually.
    I made and machined the soft jaws to hold 10" long stock tubes of ABS 4" in diameter.

  10. #270
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    Jul 2017
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    Buffalo NY USA
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    This very question came up at my day job about 5 years ago, and it was basically laughed off by management. My dept. does not do production, we do repair to support the production guys. Accounting basically told management that the software would no longer be supported and the circuits would fry out from old age, before a low-end Haas could break even. *EVERY* part is different and must be held in a different way. NO they will not pay for anybody that knows G-code. Part sizes range from matchbox to several tons the size of your living room. Materials are A36 structural, 304 SS and Incoloy 718. They are quite profitably using machines that date from pre-war up to a 1980's taiwanese 14x40 lathe. CNC just wouldn't make sense for our application.

    That said, I've seen plenty of places where CNC is the only way to go. Plenty of guys making hydraulic and pneumatic parts in my neck of the woods. There's even a few doing custom PC boards for the military, and aircraft parts. So yeah, CNC makes sense for those guys. And anyone doing injection molding these days.

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