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Thread: Why even bother anymore with manual machines?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    What I like about CNC is the ability to easily profile the outside of a workpiece, and easily do corner rounding of the same edge. That part is time consuming on manual machines.
    Don't forget the ability to mill out holes of any size. All you give the CNC controller is the X,Y position and the diameter/radius of the hole you want. Using a 1/4" endmill, a CNC machine can mill out any size hole from 1/4" to the limits of your X/Y travel. Or with a 1/2" endmill, mill out any size hole starting from 1/2", etc. The precision/resolution is often higher/better than a drill bit so it's like having millions of different sized drill bits. And if you want, you could mill a hole just slightly under-size and do a final light cut with a boring head depending on your machine's CNC tolerances.



    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    However new technology brought waterjets into widespread use. Now we can have the parts outside cut fairly accurately, before we start machining . So that changed the game a bit.
    Waterjets are CNC.....


    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    A lot of basic CNC machines don't feature toolchanging. It's out there but it costs.
    What I have used is a quick change tool holding system in my mill. It's homemade, but works pretty good.
    Each hole (4 holes) had 4 tools used on it, in one clamping of the workpiece. I use one tool in all 4 holes, switch tool, use it in all holes , the switch tool and repeat. Those holes were then tapped, but after the workpiece.. was unclamped.
    It was a round part , clamped on the ends... so it cannot be take out and reclamped during the 4 drilling operations.

    Now we do some of the the part on a Cnc, it works but with a non toolchanging cnc machine, its not super fast. .
    I use several ER20 or ER32 R8 shanks and load up the different endmills/tools in each holder then setup each Z-offset once. Swapping tools is as fast as you can swap an R8 collet.
    Work hard play hard

  2. #212
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    I am aware that waterjets are Cnc, right from the start.
    We had several shops in town with laser cutters of large capacity.
    As far as waterjet goes,if you cut the profile, rough the holes at the same time (great for triple trees)
    Last time I was at the water jet place they had 4 inch stainless plate they had cut, into round pieces, very crisp and nice finish.
    I have two parts made there.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    I am aware that waterjets are Cnc, right from the start.
    We had several shops in town with laser cutters of large capacity.
    As far as waterjet goes,if you cut the profile, rough the holes at the same time (great for triple trees)
    Last time I was at the water jet place they had 4 inch stainless plate they had cut, into round pieces, very crisp and nice finish.
    I have two parts made there.
    I cut triple trees with my plasma cutter then machined the fork and neck holes. With a small minibike, I even milled out the neck angle right on my bridgeport back in 2006:







    Work hard play hard

  4. #214
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    Yeah that is bit familiar I have had a few harley frames mounted on the mill table, and a Indian frame.
    Usually to fix an egged out hole, type of thing. A bit Tricky to set up at first with a lot of weight hanging off the table .

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    What I like about CNC is the ability to easily profile the outside of a workpiece, and easily do corner rounding of the same edge.

    A lot of basic CNC machines don't feature toolchanging. It's out there but it costs.
    What I have used is a quick change tool holding system in my mill. It's homemade, but works pretty good.
    Each hole (4 holes) had 4 tools used on it, in one clamping of the workpiece. I use one tool in all 4 holes, switch tool, use it in all holes , the switch tool and repeat. Those holes were then tapped, but after the workpiece.. was unclamped.
    It was a round part , clamped on the ends... so it cannot be take out and reclamped during the 4 drilling operations.

    Now we do some of the the part on a Cnc, it works but with a non toolchanging cnc machine, its not super fast. .
    The automatic tool changers take some time to do their thing, but are faster than manual changes with the Kwik-switch system on my Bridgeport series 1 Boss machine. You would be hard pressed to do the milling, drilling, and slitting as fast on a manual machine, Frank.
    As for a home shop, the series 1 CNC Bridgeports are a good size; about the same footprint as a manual series 1, with a 2 HP spindle. Even if I could fit a fully enclosed VMC the size of a small car in my shop, I don't have the electrical to support a 15HP spindle.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottly View Post
    The automatic tool changers take some time to do their thing, but are faster than manual changes with the Kwik-switch system on my Bridgeport series 1 Boss machine. You would be hard pressed to do the milling, drilling, and slitting as fast on a manual machine, Frank.
    As for a home shop, the series 1 CNC Bridgeports are a good size; about the same footprint as a manual series 1, with a 2 HP spindle. Even if I could fit a fully enclosed VMC the size of a small car in my shop, I don't have the electrical to support a 15HP spindle.
    If my series 1 was pristine, I would of converted it.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    What package is this?
    I have a Milltronics MB-11 and a Milltronics MB-18. Both of these have R8 spindles and Bridgeport type heads and are manual tool change with an air powered drawbar. The main big deal about these mills is the head with a quill and the conversational programming. Most people can learn to program these well enough to do basic parts in one day. Hurco has similar conversational programming. There are a few others, but these are the 2 I have used and like.

  8. #218
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    All this blathering about manual vs. CNC makes me think the craftsmen of the 18th and 19th century were more skilled with files and saws
    https://www.google.com/search?q=holt...XE7eylQBiNQeM:

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    All this blathering about manual vs. CNC makes me think the craftsmen of the 18th and 19th century were more skilled with files and saws
    https://www.google.com/search?q=holt...XE7eylQBiNQeM:
    A half decent engineer should still have good bench work skills.
    Welding, bench work, manual machining and CNC are all complimentary skill sets, not having one of these will limit your options, but not understanding one of them will leave you thinking you are missing nothing.
    If you benefit from the Dunning-Kruger Effect you may not even know it ;-)

  10. #220
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    Getting into computers and programming is a big learning curve for many 'manual' people. Not just picking up a new tool and learning to use it kind of learning curve, more of a 'learning a second language' kind of learning curve. It is overwhelming.
    Andy

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