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Thread: Oil for a Sunnen Hone Machine.

  1. #11
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    Dec 2007
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    I don't know about the abrasives and oils that Sunnen uses, but Flex-Hones require oils that have no kerosene or similar components in them to avoid breaking down the abrasive balls too quickly. This is information that one of the guys I worked with got directly from Flex-Hone, since we sold their tools at Brownells.
    David Kaiser
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  2. #12
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    Jul 2007
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    West Michigan
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    The plant that I worked at had at least four Sunnen floor model hones and I spent a lot of time running them. We had a department of about 30 or 40 cold formers and if you do cold formers you hone a lot of dies. I don't remember seeing our oilers use any special oil but it was a light cutting oil as far as I could tell. We also had a lot of screw machines and I suspect that we were using some kind of cutting fluid like the screw machines used but with less sulfur smell.

    As far as how your skin reacts to the oil, I always used rubber gloves and plenty of rags to keep as much of it off of my hands as possible. We had safety classes on stuff like skin absorption of fluids so I always tried to err on the safe side.

    I've been kind of looking for one that has some mandrels with it for my shop but so far it's been close but no cigar. The search goes on. I do have a Sunnen bench hone but no drip pans or mandrels yet.
    Last edited by bborr01; 12-30-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Apr 2010
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    Tropical Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer View Post
    Sunnen makes a small hone and the big engine block one.
    You know so much about it, you tell us the difference in oil requirements then.
    -D
    Your response reads aggressively enough to make me question whether you have some ulterior motive and if I actually wish to.

    But, I do know just a little bit about it, based upon 20+ years of honing, combined with purchasing honing two machines this year, $10K+ worth of adapters, mandrels, stones, wedges, shoes, filters, various upgrade tricks, and ... oh yeah... oil.

    Unfortunately, your statement is erroneous, to begin with. Sunnen has made SEVERAL different machines ( and still do, in fact ). They also make several stand alone attachments, too. So, you see, my request is a perfectly valid one for him. My recommendations for what he might be best served with doing and what he might be able to get away with in the manner of cutting corners in the effort to save money do very much rely on specifically what machine and set up he is running. Thanks for your input, though.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2016
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    Helsinki, Finland, Europe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post

    Homebrew from kerosene+atf+dark thread cutting oil?

    how'd you came up with that? might be great, just curious what your thinking is.
    With Stetson-Harrison method: (Commonly known method around here for Engineering)
    -dark thread cutting oil for the nasty smell (sulphur, lard and ep additives wanted actually)
    -ATF for some detergents
    -kerosene to cut down viscosity based on that the only thread cutting oil I checked had higher viscosity than MB30.

    WAG: Honing cast iron or hardened steel is probably lot easier than gummy aluminium or stainless steel that gall, cold-weld and just make your day miserable.

    I wasn't able to find gearhead's thread on PM he was referring to but found something along where Forrest suggested also thread cutting oil if you have to have a substitute:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...s-tube-193049/

    I would specifically stay away from the previously mentioned "eco" version Ridgid nu-clear oil if you want to duplicate result what you might get with MB30 as nuke oil appears to not have the wanted vitamins.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Toronto
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    Matt, thanks for the input

    Zahnrad I'll read up on those posts. Its one of the simple, older LB models. Interesting enough, the basic machine seem very close to the current models, but not as much bling. I see doing steel and cast iron on it, at least nothing in AL or stainless comes to mind at the moment.

    I made a new stand for it, my shop is so crowded I had to make something that fit over my RPC. I was going to just run with it as is, but looking at the thing, I ended up pulley apart for a good clean, inspection and paint

    Photo below, poor thing. A few more questions occur...

    1) whats the black bracket for on the top - from the line worn in the paint, i rotates, and is held by a single spring loaded bolt.

    2) What goes just below it where the two holes are?

    3) anyone have or willing to take a few photos of the work rest that would bolt on the other side? Its missing so was going to make one.

    I've had this thing for a long time now, but finally got around to welding the new stand, so its time to get it going.





    Last edited by Mcgyver; 12-31-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Apr 2010
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    Tropical Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    Ahha. Okay. Yes, definitely much older. With the lack of choices for spindle speed, you will be much more limited in your efficiency, but I am guessing that won't be as big of a concern for you. With such a bare bones unit, none of the upgrade tricks are going to be relevant for you, so we'll address the oil. The good news is that since you are missing a base, sump, and oil pump, you are free to construct as you desire. As such, you control the amount of oil you will want to purchase.

    I'd pick a suitable electric pump and simply use a small plastic bin for the sump. Slide it into that cubby you've created in the stand. For the 1-3 gallons of oil that you will need, I would still recommend using the MB30. It really does make that much of a difference. However, only you can make that decision. You need to decide how much it matters to you. Given your lack of adjustable spindle speeds, you are going to have to work harder at it, anyway.

    However....! Hmmm...

    Given that you are using a RPC, you may just want to consider using a VFD... Would take care of the voltage conversion and allow you to vary spindle speed, too! Make a new motor pulley to give you the best balance between it and the VFD and you could be golden, actually.... Would be a GREAT way to have a really compact machine footprint and not be forced to sacrifice anything...

    Whatever you do, remember to create a low spot in your sump, or at the very least raise the pump above the floor of the sump so that you are not pumping chips/debris. Would be good to make a pan/false bottom to keep everything elevated in there.

    Good luck! Interested in seeing how you end up.

    EDIT - If you mean the bracket in the foreground of the picture, on the right side of the machine ( with the circular scrape mark ) that is just a bracket for accessories that you do not have. Betting that if you check google for images of your machine you will see tons of examples of them existing empty.
    Last edited by Zahnrad Kopf; 12-31-2018 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #17
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    Mar 2005
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    Toronto
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    I do have the pump, and made an oil tank slides into the shelf. The oil pickup is from the bottom of the pump I assume? I also have the original motor, its just off as I started to take it apart. Given its my home shop, I'm not too worried efficiency, its just not likely to be used than many times a year. If that changes, or I get frustrated with the speed, 3P and VFD is a good idea

    I'm very restricted on height, given the distance between a work height and the top of the RPC so the pump ends up almost on the bottom of the the tank. I was going to weld say a 2 1/3 or 3" dia. tube on to the bottom of the tank into the which the pump would go....such that only oil from top of the reservoir would spill over the top of said tube and into where the pump is as way to keep from pumping debris.
    .

  8. #18
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    Jul 2003
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    141

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    For stones try http://www.tennesseeabrasive.com/ they will put new stones on Sunnen stone holders . I haven't used them but my buddy dose he needed some stones for one of his Sunnen hones and called them. And Sunnen wanted what he told me was a lot of money and wanted to know if I had any I told him to call Tennessee Abrasive. He did and they put new stones in his holders for a lot less. One more thing is if you do a lot of honing you need a lot of oil sunnen machines have a lot of oil so the fines drop out of the oil. And in the older flour machine I have the oil drains into 2 sheet metal boxes about 5X5X6 tall the oil drains into one then into the other then into the sump. ken

  9. #19
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    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I do have the pump, and made an oil tank slides into the shelf. The oil pickup is from the bottom of the pump I assume?
    <Snip>
    ....such that only oil from top of the reservoir would spill over the top of said tube and into where the pump is as way to keep from pumping debris.
    Which pump do you have? Yes, normally they suck up from the bottom. Can you possibly cut a clearance hole in the stand, such that the top of the pump would be allowed to poke up through, into the vacant area of the base of the Hone's casting?


    Quote Originally Posted by ken View Post
    For stones try http://www.tennesseeabrasive.com/ they will put new stones on Sunnen stone holders . I haven't used them but ...
    <SNIP>
    People are attracted to those for their price point, which is something I just don't understand. Even Sunnen will tell you that most people do not buy from them. 95% of our honing supplies have been purchased via eBay and personal sales. Package/box of stones for $30-$40 is common. So, when one realizes that there is simply nothing beneficial to the TA replacement heads and stones, and economy is not the driving factor, there is little reason to add complexity to one's kit.

    Taking it a step farther... I too was taken in by the claims of economy and simplicity. So, when we bought the first hone I looked into on of the TA adapters that someone had offered us. It was technically used, but still new in the box. He had gotten it in a bulk purchase and did not need it. The price was VERY attractive, too. The problem is that for what WE do, we need good bores. Not just bores that are scuffed up in small increments.

    So I took the time to run some side by side tests.

    Bottom line? If all you need is something scuffed up in small increments to allow another something to fit inside it, with little concerns over finish, straightness, and ROUNDNESS, then the TA may indeed by something for you. However, if you have any requirement for actual straightness and ROUNDNESS, then do not bother wasting your time. The TA is little more than brake cylinder hone in practice, with positively zero provision for holding roundness, nor straightness.

    As such, I passed on the TA and promptly started gathering Sunnen bits. Pick your poison.

    Let the flames begin...

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Long Beach , Ca.
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    50

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    10 yrs. ago when I was still running my shop , a customer asked if I would get a hone . I did and he started giving me assembly jobs that required the honing of the part and the bushing after it was installed , all of it Boeing C17 . Boeing required a certain type of honing oil , thankfully it was not the sulfur type , Just the opposite it was a synthetic that had a neutral smell , the oil also came with a certificate that was required to do the work . and yes the oil was from Sunnen.

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