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Thread: Belt sander/linisher - good or bad?

  1. #11
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    Mattij, the first is double the weight. As I recall he needs to move things around a lot as the shop is tiny. 40kg does not move easily. And the second one is really a toy what with having a 10x330mm belt. Good for sharpening pencils or doing medium size clocks or so but that would be about it. And the open frame permanent magnet motor would quickly get "furry" around all the steel grinding particles.

    If we're going to look at smaller units and Ebay in particular here's a couple to consider.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/950W-220V...aTUo:rk:9:pf:0 This one actually looks pretty interesting. Although I'm not sure I'd run the two belts at once. But for smaller work where you're not pushing hard on the belt it would work. And when you do want to hog off more material in a hurry just remove the one side so the drag isn't there and you get more power on the other side. Plus it's light and has variable speed.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-Wood...qbU:rk:30:pf:0 This one uses the same size belt as the other one. No variable but it's smaller and lighter.

  2. #12
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    If I had a small shop and needed more space I would mount some machines on a mechanism similar to an attic pull down staircase. Then when I needed to use the grinder just pull down on the string and the grinder is there. Most people think of floor or wall space. You need to think of ceiling space as well.
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Forest View Post
    If I had a small shop and needed more space I would mount some machines on a mechanism similar to an attic pull down staircase. Then when I needed to use the grinder just pull down on the string and the grinder is there. Most people think of floor or wall space. You need to think of ceiling space as well.
    That's a great idea! The machines could be counter weighted or equipped with those gas cylinders from cars so they are easy to bring down and put away. And with a good sturdy locking setup to hold them in place during use.

    It's all about thinking "volume" instead of "surface", eh?

  4. #14
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    Well, I was thinking that the PTO for a quick-change polishing/deburring mop would have been a useful combo....but not so much if it's not man enough for either. Going to have a good read through all those suggestions when it won't cause me marital trouble!
    Was thinking of jamming it in at one end of the workbench so that it's using space on a different level to other things - like the mill table goes over the top of it or something. Something to play about with if necessary rather than any sort of fully-formed plan!
    For what it's worth, the ceiling and wall space is about used already. May have to see if I can "re-home" any of my wife's stuff in the loft and condense some of the storage side of things down to have more useable room....but we're talking a foot or two by removing a floor-to-ceiling storage cupboard.
    BCRider: If you're looking at relatively light machines, I've seen them double-sided on a table top before. Flip it over and use the one on the bottom - or have one side as blank work-space.

    Gareth

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenedd View Post
    Well, I was thinking that the PTO for a quick-change polishing/deburring mop would have been a useful combo....but not so much if it's not man enough for either. Going to have a good read through all those suggestions when it won't cause me marital trouble!
    Was thinking of jamming it in at one end of the workbench so that it's using space on a different level to other things - like the mill table goes over the top of it or something. Something to play about with if necessary rather than any sort of fully-formed plan!
    For what it's worth, the ceiling and wall space is about used already. May have to see if I can "re-home" any of my wife's stuff in the loft and condense some of the storage side of things down to have more useable room....but we're talking a foot or two by removing a floor-to-ceiling storage cupboard.
    BCRider: If you're looking at relatively light machines, I've seen them double-sided on a table top before. Flip it over and use the one on the bottom - or have one side as blank work-space.

    Gareth
    You could free up some space by getting rid of the wife!!!!! No marital problems, more space, seems a win, win to me.
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    NO.
    that thing is really underpowered for anything but light sharpening or deburring. 560W brush motor and worst-case its input power like with hand tools(grinders, drills etc) so its like 1/3hp motor.

    To take a chunk of steel plate and rough grind it to shape "like in videos" is more like 2hp belt grinder. (well you can do it with that thing also but 6 times slower..)

    There seem to be hardly any sturdy yet compact belt sanders available.
    This one comes close but: https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminste...-sander-508210
    I fully agree with this assessment, that motor is going to be pretty anemic for any sort of shaping. Deburring and thin parts maybe, but wanting to round off a corner to a scribe like like you see in those videos? Youll be there a while. Ive got a 2hp 2x72 belt grinder i use for stuff like that, and its amazingly easy to bog the motor down a bit on thicker parts.

    Now, the machine youre looking at might work, just slowly, but honestly im going to say avoid it just because of the brushed motor. Really hate those things in power tools, they always seem to be loud and underpowered

  7. #17
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    I realize what you guys are telling Cenned. But if we go back and read some of his past threads he does not have a lot of room. His shop is not much larger than many bathrooms as I recall. So although power available may suffer and that'll slow things down he simply doesn't have room for a 2HP 2x72 setup.

    That right Cenned?

  8. #18
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    Morning all.

    Black Forest: Well, it would certainly save a lot of space currently taken up by shoes, handbags and coats but I've certainly done a lot worse in the past so I think I'll keep her.

    BCRider: Yes, I can fairly confidently say that your bathroom is likely to be bigger than my shop! MattiJ is right that toy of a belt grinder would fit in the space better! MattiJ's more serious suggestion of the Axminster 100x1220 is good but I think it would need to be upright to have any chance of fitting the space. The next model up does that but at nearly 600 it's definitely out of the 'what the hell, I'll worry about it later' budget range!

    I do have a welder now. The skill to use it, however, is another thing. It would be a My First welding project. That may not be entirely a bad thing as it would get me to learn new and useful stuff. What I have no idea about is motors and drives. I mean, I don't have a good working knowledge of bearings and pulleys but I know enough to research it or follow instructions. I could possibly take power off of my lathe. That's a 1000W brushless motor with variable speed up to 2500rpm so if I ran a shaft out the offboard side, it could be used to drive a welded frame carrying pulleys. It wouldn't really benefit from any dust extraction though.

    In terms of aims, I'd like to be able to shape to a line from a rough cut. Cleaning stuff up. Sharpening stuff - or at least doing the roughing before hitting a stone - would be useful. Generally finishing edges and surfaces of parts without killing myself would be nice.
    Sorry, this is kind of fragmented. It seems like I've started with a simple idea and opened a whole can of worms again. I plan to go to Axminster in a fortnight's time anyway as I have a customer/friend who's retiring and looking to return to wood turning as a hobby. Might be a good opportunity to look at things in the flesh to get a better idea of scale.

  9. #19
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    I know you don't have a lot of room in there but do try as much as you can to separate any grinding from the machines. Even if it's just a flame resistant curtain that confines the sparks and abrasive dust to some extent. You don't want to end up "lapping" your ways every time you use the lathe due to a film of abrasive dust. Or have an old bed sheet you lay over the machines before you start doing any grinding. That might be the best option.

    If you were to have a go at welding up your own belt grinder you could adapt and come up with a design that is more vertically focused and which could be more easily built into your confined area. It might even be semi fixed and semi retractable. Like the motor unit is permanently mounted to a lower shelf of your bench but the belt comes up to a high roller then down and the arm supporting the belt and other rollers can be tilted back and down out of the way? Or something similarly imaginative? That's a big advantage of making your own. I have this image of a mid size belt grinder mounted to a shelf under the bench but which runs the belt up to a roller that turns the belt and runs back down. And it leaves you a vertical working face that is just below the bench level. So you just bend down a touch to use it. Or with the flick of a lever you can hinge it out a bit and reach the upper wheel for times you want to use the rounded face to grind a hollow.

    The guys are quite right about the power needed. I used to have a home made small belt grinder run by a half horse (~380 watts) motor and it was not that hard to stall it by pressing on the belt. And in the wood shop I've got a belt and disc sander combo which is rated for 3/4HP (560 watts) that is better but a big piece of wood pressed semi hard on the belt produces enough friction that it slows down quite a lot. It's not just the work against the belt remember. There's also a lot of friction generated between the belt and the backing platten. So by no means go for less than 400 watts for the power. And more like the 560 would be better even for your small size needs. 750 watts (1HP) would be nice if you build your own but I suspect the size of the project pieces that will fit in your shop while you are there too will be such that you could get by with the 560 watts option, a lighter touch and a bit of patience. The reality being that it would very likely be a better fit for you and your modest shop.

    It's a lot more modest than some of the options mentioned in this thread so far but what about something like;

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverlin...4~Ly:rk:8:pf:0

    It could serve you as a replacement or addition to whatever you have now for a grinder. I'm thinking more as a replacement. It's got a belt side and a wheel side so you can set it up with some sort of combination of belt and stone that gives you the best flexibility. I'm thinking that a custom shelf under your bench that mounts the body and wheel side low and just under the bench top and at one end so the belt mounted vertically sticks up a bit at the end of the bench. j Or maybe cut a notch in the front edge so the belt sticks up and the little support table is flush with the bench top? No idea if it's practical or not but trying to toss ideas out that make you think outside of the box. When you don't have a lot of room you need to double up on what things do and it helps if you can integrate and combine where possible to get more out of less.

    What sort of welder is it? If it's a MIG or flux core wire feed you might be surprised at how easy it is to learn to use it for basic needs.

  10. #20
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    Thanks BCRider. It's useful to have an idea (from all of you) what sort of power level I need to be aiming for to be able to achieve certain tasks.
    I'm thinking pretty much along the same lines as you - except I was thinking of having the motor screwed to the underside of the worksurface to save more space. The belt could then run in the space between the end of the workbench and the wall above the cyclone for the shop vac. Well, in theory at least!
    I'm not massively keen on the Silverline unit. It's certainly cheaper but it's lacking power (from what you've all said) and would need a lot of modifying in order to have a useable table. While the idea of taking something reasonable and perhaps extending the belt had come to mind, to be honest, if I'm going to start that low down, I might as well start from scratch. If I'm looking at motors and want variable speed and reverse, should I be looking at a three phase motor and small VFD or am I way overcomplicating things due to not having a clue?

    I'm aware of the issues of grinding dust and ways. I don't like it but I don't really have the space to have separate rooms - which would seem the best solution. I think I will try to find something I can cover things with as the dust even from grinding a tool up does tend to get around. Do you think my wife would miss one of the many, many coats she has on the hooks in the hall?! It's a good job I over-engineered those hooks and screwed through the plasterboard, through the void and into the brick behind or they'd have slid down through the plasterboard like butter!

    I went with a stick welder. Mainly because of the size and not needing a gas bottle if I'm honest. I'd like to claim some sort of purism relating to MIG being "too easy" and stick being closer to TIG....but it's all about the size...and cost. I did get a set of welding gloves, cheap auto-darkening helmet and spring hammer as well as upgraded cables and ends - the ones that came with it were somewhat anaemic....but you get what you pay for. I need to change the plug though as some design genius thought that the best way of making the fuse not blow at full power was to solder a solid bridge of wire under the 13A fuse (which is why it's no longer on sale!). I've already tested it on a (properly) fused extension so I know it doesn't blow in the ranges I'm likely to use - perhaps at full power (claimed to be 200A!) but I'd rather it was done properly! In terms of learning, I'll have you know that I've run ooh, at least six inches of weld bead on a flat plate....I'm practically a master! It'll do me good to have something I need to use it for rather than just being frustrated at not having the capability.

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