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Thread: “Bin@way a lot:

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer View Post
    Do you have a personality defect???

    -D
    I told you guys long ago IMHO he does. My wife is in that field & everyone wonders why this isn't a machining forum anymore, it's *ssholes like him that took the fun out of the forum. People like that are usually fakes, not sure of them selves, insecure, class clowns to cover it up, act like they know more than they do. Sad really sad &I told him he needs help.

    3 watt, I have had many cycles but never a menstral do you enjoy riding yours alot or just once a month? I knew you were a **ssy but now I see your a full fledged cycle & all
    "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
    world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
    country, in easy stages."
    ~ James Madison

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flylo View Post
    I told you guys long ago IMHO he does. My wife is in that field & everyone wonders why this isn't a machining forum anymore, it's *ssholes like him that took the fun out of the forum. People like that are usually fakes, not sure of them selves, insecure, class clowns to cover it up, act like they know more than they do. Sad really sad &I told him he needs help.

    3 watt, I have had many cycles but never a menstral do you enjoy riding yours alot or just once a month? I knew you were a **ssy but now I see your a full fledged cycle & all
    It's not really my fault. I really could use more role models like yourself to help guide me. This is my cry out for help....
    Work hard play hard

  3. #23
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    OK, so what did you machine??

    JL..................

  4. #24
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    If you mean me JL, Threaded & crowned a 22lr barrel what about you?
    "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
    world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
    country, in easy stages."
    ~ James Madison

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by danlb View Post
    In our area, (all of California) the teachers are constantly claiming that they are underpaid. The class sizes are too big and the workload takes up all their free time. They are stuck with books and learning materials that are several years old!

    There must be more to the story. My neighbor retired from a job as a high school teacher. He and his wife (a housewife for the last 35 years) are leaving for their 4th multiple week cruise in the last 12 months.

    A friend retired from his career as a telephone engineer so that he could take a job as a part time professor in the University of California (UC) system. He made more money at the UC and had only a 3 day work week and those were partial days.

    My son came home from school and asked me to vote a bond to provide for more money for his teachers. A few days later he was invited to spend a month at the lakeside summer home of his friend, who's parents were teachers. When he got back he was amazed that their summer home was bigger and nicer than our home. It appears that his friend's parents were paid better than we were.

    Heres' the deal. Starting pay for teachers sucks, just as it does for most occupations. But it's relatively easy (in Calif) to get a raise by taking more classes, training or completing a degree. By the time they have been there 10 years they often make more money than the average for the families of their students. By the time they retire (given 30 years service) they get a pension that is about equal to the rate that they were paid the day they retire.

    All of that and they manage it while working a 9 month work year with 2 or 3 major multi week vacations and half days on Fridays. Hourly wages typically start from $18.75 and go up to $42.85. Those "hourly" figures are based on the anual salary which is spread over a 52 week period despite the 39 weeks of actual work.

    Again, all that is in California. Other areas may be different.
    Danlb,

    Those make nice sound bites, but they're mostly crap. My wife just retired after 31 years teaching in a California public school. She taught in a district we could not afford to live in because the property values were so high because of the "great schools". She has a Masters and enough extra credits to be equivalent to a PhD so she was at the top of the salary schedule. She was paid 10 months/year, not 12, and she did enjoy part of her summer off, except for the unpaid weeks she spent preparing for the next school year. I've worked as an engineer for the same period, mostly in aerospace, and am currently a department manager. With a bachelors degree, I have always made between 150% and 200% of what she made. I just hired a freshly graduating engineer with a masters and no experience for more than any teacher makes in the local district, plus a $7500 signing bonus. And my company is not even one of the highest paying employers in the area. During my career, I have typically worked 50 plus hour weeks, but rarely had to put in as much time as my wife did teaching, grading, preparing lesson plans, etc. Just because the kids leave the school doesn't mean the teachers job is done. Yes, she does get a pension which is about 55% of her last salary, but she gets no paid health care (she could buy retiree health care for $40K/year), and she will get zero Social Security payments even though she paid into SSI for over 10 years in non-teaching jobs. She won't even be eligible for my survivors benefits in the event of my death. Yes, there are teachers just putting in the minimum effort, but none of them are buying lakeside vacation homes with their teaching salaries.
    Davis

    "Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself"

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by interrupted_cut View Post
    Danlb,

    Those make nice sound bites, but they're mostly crap. My wife just retired after 31 years teaching in a California public school. She taught in a district we could not afford to live in because the property values were so high because of the "great schools". She has a Masters and enough extra credits to be equivalent to a PhD so she was at the top of the salary schedule. She was paid 10 months/year, not 12, and she did enjoy part of her summer off, except for the unpaid weeks she spent preparing for the next school year. I've worked as an engineer for the same period, mostly in aerospace, and am currently a department manager. With a bachelors degree, I have always made between 150% and 200% of what she made. I just hired a freshly graduating engineer with a masters and no experience for more than any teacher makes in the local district, plus a $7500 signing bonus. And my company is not even one of the highest paying employers in the area. During my career, I have typically worked 50 plus hour weeks, but rarely had to put in as much time as my wife did teaching, grading, preparing lesson plans, etc. Just because the kids leave the school doesn't mean the teachers job is done. Yes, she does get a pension which is about 55% of her last salary, but she gets no paid health care (she could buy retiree health care for $40K/year), and she will get zero Social Security payments even though she paid into SSI for over 10 years in non-teaching jobs. She won't even be eligible for my survivors benefits in the event of my death. Yes, there are teachers just putting in the minimum effort, but none of them are buying lakeside vacation homes with their teaching salaries.
    If your wife is getting only 55% of her salary after 31 years she must have retired fairly young... around 55 I'd guess. I also retired young and took a terrible hit on my pension payout.

    You should look again at the health care. Per https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/2019...os-angeles.pdf you can get pretty decent coverage for around $500 a month. Yes, that's still outrageous, but it's a far cry from the $40,000 a year that you quoted. From what I found online, a teacher at the top scale for the Torrance school district was getting $80K for 37 weeks of work. Amortize that out to 52 weeks a year and you get the equivalent of $112,000 a year for a normal job. That's a pretty good rate of pay for most jobs in most areas.

    It sucks that she can't collect on your SS pension. The WEP act seems unfair on the surface but you should double check. But it looks like she should get some monthly SS if she's over 62 or whatever her minimum age is. That's assuming that she made the equivalent of 12 months at minimum wage for 10 years.

    According to my step daughter (a southern Ca teacher too) you get the choice of 10 or 12 months of paychecks.

    In short, it's not just sound bites. Your wife's retirement situation is MUCH better than many I know who retired after 40 years as a white collar worker only to end up with a $500 or $600 pension and a $1,200 a month SS payment. Heck, she gets more from her pension than my wife and I get from SS, and we were both professionals in the data processing sector.

    Dan
    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

  7. #27
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    An interesting, complex and often discussed subject.
    I have no idea how representative California's school system might be, but I do know that the cost of living there is crazy compared to anywhere I have lived.

    I know several teachers, worked with a few, and have a few in the family. Like virtually everyone else on the planet, they mostly feel they are underpaid. I attest that they are not.
    Really, I find it somewhat a curious statement for a majority of people to make as free markets set most wages. When there are 3 teaching positions available and 400 teachers apply, I find it difficult to believe that so many people are altruistic to such an extreme degree. The fact is, as I see it anyway, that they can do something they love, and get paid a decent wage with decent benefits for doing so. This is a good thing. No, you are not likely to get rich being a teacher, but everyone knows that going into it. Being a school administrator on the other hand, often pays an absurd salary and benefits. Do a little poking around and you might be surprised. Of course, rural districts are not going to pay as much or have as good a benefit package as say, a teacher in Boston. It is though, a choice where you want to work, and nobody held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to be a teacher (nor any other vocation). We make choices, we live with the results of them - simple, as a general rule.

    Compared to many jobs, it is not particularly difficult, nor does it typically require an extensive education. You have every holiday off and a long Christmas vacation in addition to months off in the summer, and this must be factored in. Here, you can choose to get paid for months worked or evenly throughout the year. The average public school teachers salary in 2016 was $58,350 (Google), for between 9-10 months of work. The benefits are quite competitive, if not superior to the typical. They have their own retirement program and do not have to pay into social security, raises are steady (even if you are a sh*tty teacher). Also keep in mind it is almost impossible to fire a teacher. Find that little gem elsewhere in working America.

    I have a relative (single) who lives in a very nice house (and paid it off early), always drives a very nice car, travels out of the country on occasion, gets off work a little after 4 o-clock, has lots of time off, and lives quite well overall. She is wise with her money, however. On one income, always having been an elementary teacher, with just a 4 year degree, she has never, and will never have to worry about health care, retirement, nor have to do without very much. America can truly be a great country (assuming you are not a dumbass, of course).

    Throwing money at the problem has failed to improve our educational system. I worked it our awhile back - a nearby city district gets about $250,000 for a smallish classroom, per year. The nat average looks to be over $12,000 per student (over 15k per with college factored in). Keep in mind that this is OPERATING expense, all the (ordinarily very large) capital costs (like the facility and property) are already PAID for. Even in the 'poor' districts, schools are very fancy and well equipped. This is in Texas - I would presume many other states are even more so. A district nearby just spent 60 million (yes, MILLION) on a football stadium. Not to be outdone, the neighboring district spent 80 million. IIRC, these figures were just for the stadium itself and the actual end costs were more like 80 and 100 million. This, to me, is stupidly absurd. Yet they bitch relentlessly about not being adequately funded, and there are multiple bond proposals at every election (and people stupidly always pass them).

    We have the largest economy in the world, spend more for education than most (any?) developed countries, yet cannot even break the top 10 in rankings. There is a problem, and money is not it.

    These are my thoughts, experiences and opinions only, I am operating from memory, and only Googled one figure.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by flylo View Post
    My wife is in that field :
    Would that be out in left field? Look who's calling the kettle black!!!!
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Forest View Post
    Would that be out in left field?
    or perhaps just out standing in it
    .

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by danlb View Post
    In our area, (all of California) the teachers are constantly claiming that they are underpaid. The class sizes are too big and the workload takes up all their free time. They are stuck with books and learning materials that are several years old!

    There must be more to the story. My neighbor retired from a job as a high school teacher. He and his wife (a housewife for the last 35 years) are leaving for their 4th multiple week cruise in the last 12 months.

    A friend retired from his career as a telephone engineer so that he could take a job as a part time professor in the University of California (UC) system. He made more money at the UC and had only a 3 day work week and those were partial days.

    My son came home from school and asked me to vote a bond to provide for more money for his teachers. A few days later he was invited to spend a month at the lakeside summer home of his friend, who's parents were teachers. When he got back he was amazed that their summer home was bigger and nicer than our home. It appears that his friend's parents were paid better than we were.

    Heres' the deal. Starting pay for teachers sucks, just as it does for most occupations. But it's relatively easy (in Calif) to get a raise by taking more classes, training or completing a degree. By the time they have been there 10 years they often make more money than the average for the families of their students. By the time they retire (given 30 years service) they get a pension that is about equal to the rate that they were paid the day they retire.

    All of that and they manage it while working a 9 month work year with 2 or 3 major multi week vacations and half days on Fridays. Hourly wages typically start from $18.75 and go up to $42.85. Those "hourly" figures are based on the anual salary which is spread over a 52 week period despite the 39 weeks of actual work.

    Again, all that is in California. Other areas may be different.
    people forget that being a teacher is not an 9 to 5 type job. My mother was a teacher, at a private school. As such, many of the public school issues did not apply, but there were enough anyhow.

    The time at the school is the beginning of the day's work. Nearly all that time is spent "teaching", i.e. interacting with students. After that, several hours are spent every day in "unimportant tasks" like grading homework, grading tests, preparing for the next day's work, preparing tests, preparing coursework handouts, and so forth. The day often is much more like a 12 hour workday.

    Talking about peopl'e lake house etc, is all very clever, and it makes for a good quip, but the reality of the job is that iit's a long day every day. And, in the public schools, the class size is larger, often double, which doubles the length of time spent on grading papers, and so forth.

    Add to that the fact that the "summer vacation" starts late and ends early, since there are meetings and prep work before the new year, as well as things to finish up at the end of the old year. Then the after hours meetings with parents, etc, etc.

    Then also, many teachers in public schools have students who are not only not interested, but actively hostile, causing trouble and breaking up the class. Some of the students have been held back more than once, and are older than any of the others, which makes for more problems. In higher grades, there may be students who appear and disappear as their court dates and incarceration for violent crimes go. Just the sort of folks who you want to be with on a regular basis. And the teachers are expected to try to get all these students to learn.

    You make it sound like the job is a walk in the park with tons of perks and high pay. Your world must be far different from that in which most teachers live.

    And I notice that one of your examples had both parents working as teachers. two salaries always makes for more money in a family.... I bet they needed that time out at the lake, small wonder they spent money to have it nice. that came at the expense of their savings for retirement (assuming that they did not just inherit the place).

    One final thing..... Usually, teachers are NOT eligible for Social security, due to having a government teacher's pension. And the governments in many places have been crying poor, and trying to cut back the pensions that were promised. Nice, eh?

    Who'd be a teacher, anyway? You get 10 + hours a day work, often you get a room full of troublemakers, you need an advanced degree (more student debt) to teach lower grades, the government tries to go back on what they promised you in pension, you do not get social security, and many folks just like Dan do not respect what a teacher deals with and complain about the anecdotal "vast amounts" they are paid.

    Nice work if you can get it? Not so much.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 01-26-2019 at 10:04 AM.
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